Rene vs Metropolis

funkyjunky · Post by **funkyjunky** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:25 pm

software cartesian sequencer inspired by make noise rene, recommended to try for all searching the answer on the question "what sequencer to pick?"
http://pattr.ru/patches/cartesian-sequencer.html - try it out to make your final decision

robotopsy · Post by **robotopsy** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:57 am

I wasnt sure on METROPOLIS or RENÃƒâ€°

Then I heard of a 4tracks sequencer with 12 outputs
2CV and 1gate per tracks
so I bought Orthogonal Devices ER-101
even if it's really not the same type of sequencer
I'm very pleased by this one
there's so much to do with that thang !!!!

FatRocky · Post by **FatRocky** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:10 pm

I wouldn't say Rene vs Metropolis ?,
I'd say Rene + Metropolis?
and what how can they help each other?

Remote337 · Post by **Remote337** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:58 pm

FatRocky wrote:I wouldn't say Rene vs Metropolis ?,
I'd say Rene + Metropolis?
and what how can they help each other?

Rene turned up last week so now have both. They really are a great pairing

Ish · Post by **Ish** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:45 pm

Quick question:

I'm also deciding between Rene and Metropolis (ideally, I'll have both one day). However, one thing I'm looking to get out of my sequencer are melodic runs along these lines (in terms of length, spacing and variation):

[video] [/video] (any clue on how this video tag is supposed to work?)

To me, this sounds a LOT like the Metropolis videos I've found around the net, but can Rene accomplish this kind of repeating variation (in a set and forget sort of way, i.e. without me having to manually change logic settings as the sequence loops to get the repeats, etc)?

MATSmile · Post by **MATSmile** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:06 pm

For Clark-like sequences I would suggest Metropolis.

cinnamonjuly · Post by **cinnamonjuly** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:34 pm

Had a Rene for three years. Tried hard with it but was at a complete loss three years down the line. Sold it recently and bought adm06 and metropolis. Both are immediately obvious and intuitive to me. Go figure. Maybe it's the way my brains wired.

theewiper · Post by **theewiper** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:43 pm

robotopsy wrote:I wasnt sure on METROPOLIS or RENÃƒâ€°

Then I heard of a 4tracks sequencer with 12 outputs
2CV and 1gate per tracks
so I bought Orthogonal Devices ER-101
even if it's really not the same type of sequencer
I'm very pleased by this one
there's so much to do with that thang !!!!

Yes. I've had a Rene and Metro and while I liked both I'm definitely in the ER101 camp. It's not as immediate as either, but it can do so much. It's also a great way to break out of the 8-16 classic step sequencer modality.

Dogma · Post by **Dogma** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:53 pm

theewiper wrote:
robotopsy wrote:I wasnt sure on METROPOLIS or RENÃƒâ€°

Then I heard of a 4tracks sequencer with 12 outputs
2CV and 1gate per tracks
so I bought Orthogonal Devices ER-101
even if it's really not the same type of sequencer
I'm very pleased by this one
there's so much to do with that thang !!!!
Yes. I've had a Rene and Metro and while I liked both I'm definitely in the ER101 camp. It's not as immediate as either, but it can do so much. It's also a great way to break out of the 8-16 classic step sequencer modality.

See Im heavily into making sequencers sequencing sequencers and Ive got a Rene, Verbos VMS, TTA Z8000 and they all have their place....
I am looking at the Modcan touch sequencer though to tie it all together.
What are the thought about that?

MATSmile · Post by **MATSmile** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:47 pm

Modcan Touch is not as cool as ER101 mainly because it's TOUCH. I use ER101 without 102 expansion. Not the most versatile sequencer for live (only if you will pre-record something), but the most complex (in terms of melody and rhythm) one.

Ish · Post by **Ish** » Mon May 04, 2015 3:10 pm

Quick question:

As a first module in a 12U system (geared towards synthesis), would you suggest Metropolis ($580) or Rene+ Wogglebug (latter for clock, roughly $750)? They'd be routed to a Microbrute.

I'm more interested in Rene, but Metropolis is also a fascination, and seems to be scarce more so than Rene (Metropolis is back in US retail again, but for how long?).

Just looking for some opinions, not really ironclad advice.

*edit: My gut tells me Metropolis due to its scarcity, but I'm unsure whether it (by itself) can get out of the loopy, repeating lines feel as easily as a Rene+Woggle combo.

Naqin · Post by **Naqin** » Mon May 04, 2015 3:59 pm

Ish wrote:Quick question:

As a first module in a 12U system (geared towards synthesis), would you suggest Metropolis ($580) or Rene+ Wogglebug (latter for clock, roughly $750)? They'd be routed to a Microbrute.

I'm more interested in Rene, but Metropolis is also a fascination, and seems to be scarce more so than Rene (Metropolis is back in US retail again, but for how long?).

Just looking for some opinions, not really ironclad advice.

*edit: My gut tells me Metropolis due to its scarcity, but I'm unsure whether it (by itself) can get out of the loopy, repeating lines feel as easily as a Rene+Woggle combo.

I'd say if you like Rene better, get Rene. Metropolis isn't always available maybe but it's not unobtainium. It pops up now and again on the used market and I suppose new ones will be made.

I was kind of in the same place, starting out with a sequencer to use with a Microbrute. Personally I went with Metropolis, mostly because it's so intuitive. That's quite important to me because I do a lot of live improvisation.

Rene is awesome though, if you want to get outside of the traditional lines it's a great choice. Metropolis can get random as well, but for Rene that's more the natural territory I think. It feels a bit more 'modular' if that makes any sense.

Ish · Post by **Ish** » Mon May 04, 2015 4:04 pm

Naqin wrote: I was kind of in the same place, starting out with a sequencer to use with a Microbrute. Personally I went with Metropolis, mostly because it's so intuitive. That's quite important to me because I do a lot of live improvisation.

You're exactly the person I needed to hear from, thanks for taking the time to fill me in.

I will likely go for the Rene / Woggle option, if for no other reason than getting my head around Rene will take longer than most other modules I'll likely pick up (and if I have Rene down pretty good, additionally offerings will open up so much more).

That said, I was curious whether you felt the Metropolis, by itself, limiting? I mean, you can drop slides, play with the gate and change step repeat values, but you can't really transpose the sequence all that easily. Did you find the end result loopy? We likely make different music, but your opinion on this would be respected regardless.

I actually rather like loopy music (old school detroit techno, etc), but my desire for the metropolis is more in line with these kind of melodies: (still loopy in my opinion, but does a decent job of moving around in root note).

p.s. note, this video does not represent what I expect to get out of Rene!

Rather, I think they will compliment each other well (Rene will likely get tasked to modulation duties when I eventually get a Metropolis). Thanks again!

Naqin · Post by **Naqin** » Mon May 04, 2015 4:40 pm

Ish wrote:
Naqin wrote: I was kind of in the same place, starting out with a sequencer to use with a Microbrute. Personally I went with Metropolis, mostly because it's so intuitive. That's quite important to me because I do a lot of live improvisation.
You're exactly the person I needed to hear from, thanks for taking the time to fill me in.

I will likely go for the Rene / Woggle option, if for no other reason than getting my head around Rene will take longer than most other modules I'll likely pick up (and if I have Rene down pretty good, additionally offerings will open up so much more).

That said, I was curious whether you felt the Metropolis, by itself, limiting? I mean, you can drop slides, play with the gate and change step repeat values, but you can't really transpose the sequence all that easily. Did you find the end result loopy? We likely make different music, but your opinion on this would be respected regardless.

I actually rather like loopy music (old school detroit techno, etc), but my desire for the metropolis is more in line with these kind of melodies: (still loopy in my opinion, but does a decent job of moving around in root note).

p.s. note, this video does not represent what I expect to get out of Rene!

Rather, I think they will compliment each other well (Rene will likely get tasked to modulation duties when I eventually get a Metropolis). Thanks again!

That video actually was one of the reasons I got excited about Metropolis as well

I have more experience with drone/ambient type stuff but wanted to get some rhythmic variety.

A crucial thing to get out of loopiness, aside from the more obvious random modes are the two aux inputs. With these you can transpose (just be aware this might work differently than expected since they don't take 1v/oct) or modulate the sequence in other ways. And it's so easy to dial in some variety as well. I haven't felt limited yet.
With the Microbrute itself you can always transpose using the keyboard btw.

Ish · Post by **Ish** » Mon May 04, 2015 5:03 pm

Naqin wrote: And it's so easy to dial in some variety as well. I haven't felt limited yet.
With the Microbrute itself you can always transpose using the keyboard btw.

Oh, maybe I missed the option, but can you disconnect the keyboard from the internal oscillators? I thought they were hardwired?

Is this a feature in the software? I haven't explored those as much.

jgshoe · Post by **jgshoe** » Mon May 04, 2015 11:05 pm

I would say get one of them, keep it, then a little down the road get the other.

Ish · Post by **Ish** » Mon May 04, 2015 11:25 pm

jgshoe wrote:I would say get one of them, keep it, then a little down the road get the other.

Oh, that was my plan from the get-go. I was just trying to decide which to grab first (and, more importantly, which would be a better "first module in the rack" compliment to my Microbrute).

When everything is said and done, I plan to have at least 1 Metropolis, 1 Rene, 1 or 2 Pressure Points (with Brains) and a Moskwa in my 12u. And, even then, I'll likely use midi to do most of my note sequencing (though not always or exclusively).

jgshoe · Post by **jgshoe** » Tue May 05, 2015 12:06 am

Ish wrote:
jgshoe wrote:I would say get one of them, keep it, then a little down the road get the other.
Oh, that was my plan from the get-go. I was just trying to decide which to grab first (and, more importantly, which would be a better "first module in the rack" compliment to my Microbrute).

When everything is said and done, I plan to have at least 1 Metropolis, 1 Rene, 1 or 2 Pressure Points (with Brains) and a Moskwa in my 12u. And, even then, I'll likely use midi to do most of my note sequencing (though not always or exclusively).

Well in that case, I would suggest the Metropolis to start. But that's just personal opinion

Dogma · Post by **Dogma** » Tue May 05, 2015 12:23 am

Has anyone caught onto the Knit Rider? Its so clever how its set up - and its open source! Reminds me a lot of Plocks on the elektron sequencers

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/bastl-ins ... knit-rider

Trigger sequencer

Knit Rider is very versatile 6 voice trigger sequencer with fast modern workflow. In one pattern there is 4 bars and each has 16 steps and each step has 4 sub steps which makes it 256 steps per pattern. And there are 64 patterns in total ! This allows you to make very detailed patterns however it doesn’t take away the intuitivity and speed of classic 16 step sequencers. Use bar buttons to navigate in the 4 bars. Hold a certain step – the bar buttons show now the substeps in that step – press the bar buttons to edit the substeps.

Active step feature allows you to set any number of steps you want to have independently for each voice (or for all voices at the same time). You can also deactivate individual steps in the middle of the sequence. All voices have mute feature and can be set to be in trigger or gate mode. You can also record the sequences by tapping on the voice buttons with adjustable quantisation. Jump feature allows you to repeat certain step of the sequence for all voices which is great for performance and non-linear playback of patterns. Knit rider can by master or slave when it comes to tempo and you can set the clock input ratio (it one clock is 1 substep, 2 substeps, 1 step or 2 steps). There is also FN button which gives you access to additional features for fast and effective workflow.

Features

master or slave tempo – selectable slave tempo ratio
6 voices with individual outputs – each can be set as trigger or gate
pattern has 4 bars each has 16 steps
each step has 4 sub steps (total 256 steps/pattern)
64 patterns
simple and fast real time editing
record function with quantisation settings
play / stop button (for sync in slave mode)
mute function for each voice
jump function (repeats certain step)
adjustable master tempo by tap or up, down (by 2 bpm)
active step – sets how many steps there are for each voice or for all instruments – possible to deactivate individual steps
saves everything on microSD card (accessible from the back side)
copy and paste functions for fast workflow (paste for voice, bar or pattern)
clear function (for one voice, all voices, active steps in one voice, all active steps)
undo function takes you back to the moment when you saved last time
5 volt outputs
handmade in Brno, Czech republic
front panel from oak wood, handmade custom knobs
breakout for FTDi USB adaptor for hacking, opensource firmware (see github)

MATSmile · Post by **MATSmile** » Tue May 05, 2015 3:41 am

Dogma wrote:Has anyone caught onto the Knit Rider? Its so clever how its set up - and its open source! Reminds me a lot of Plocks on the elektron sequencers

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/bastl-ins ... knit-rider

Trigger sequencer

Knit Rider is very versatile 6 voice trigger sequencer with fast modern workflow. In one pattern there is 4 bars and each has 16 steps and each step has 4 sub steps which makes it 256 steps per pattern. And there are 64 patterns in total ! This allows you to make very detailed patterns however it doesn’t take away the intuitivity and speed of classic 16 step sequencers. Use bar buttons to navigate in the 4 bars. Hold a certain step – the bar buttons show now the substeps in that step – press the bar buttons to edit the substeps.

Active step feature allows you to set any number of steps you want to have independently for each voice (or for all voices at the same time). You can also deactivate individual steps in the middle of the sequence. All voices have mute feature and can be set to be in trigger or gate mode. You can also record the sequences by tapping on the voice buttons with adjustable quantisation. Jump feature allows you to repeat certain step of the sequence for all voices which is great for performance and non-linear playback of patterns. Knit rider can by master or slave when it comes to tempo and you can set the clock input ratio (it one clock is 1 substep, 2 substeps, 1 step or 2 steps). There is also FN button which gives you access to additional features for fast and effective workflow.

Features

master or slave tempo – selectable slave tempo ratio
6 voices with individual outputs – each can be set as trigger or gate
pattern has 4 bars each has 16 steps
each step has 4 sub steps (total 256 steps/pattern)
64 patterns
simple and fast real time editing
record function with quantisation settings
play / stop button (for sync in slave mode)
mute function for each voice
jump function (repeats certain step)
adjustable master tempo by tap or up, down (by 2 bpm)
active step – sets how many steps there are for each voice or for all instruments – possible to deactivate individual steps
saves everything on microSD card (accessible from the back side)
copy and paste functions for fast workflow (paste for voice, bar or pattern)
clear function (for one voice, all voices, active steps in one voice, all active steps)
undo function takes you back to the moment when you saved last time
5 volt outputs
handmade in Brno, Czech republic
front panel from oak wood, handmade custom knobs
breakout for FTDi USB adaptor for hacking, opensource firmware (see github)

I don't think it has to do something with this thread

apart from being sequencer. Anyway, Circadian Rhythm is what you need if you want this kind of trigger sequencer.

Dogma · Post by **Dogma** » Tue May 05, 2015 3:47 am

Yeah after I posted I thought the same....just keep as a interesting aside....

Its not as popular I guess but my Rene and VMS go so well together....VMS is a funk machine (another irrelevant to this thread comment - im outta here sorry!.....

Alexander Kuznetsov · Tue May 05, 2015 12:39 pm

The question to the users of Metropolis. Is it enough for you to have one Metropolis in your system? it is too little to have 8 steps, in my opinion.

Abraxis · Post by **Abraxis** » Tue May 05, 2015 2:21 pm

Alexander Kuznetsov wrote:The question to the users of Metropolis. Is it enough for you to have one Metropolis in your system? it is too little to have 8 steps, in my opinion.

It feels like more than an 8 step sequencer because of the pulse counts.

It's an 8 note sequencer, but each of those can be repeated up to 8 times for up to 64 stages. Between CV control over the stages and transposition and being able to control the number of pulses with the data knob it is pretty flexible.

It's not my only sequencer, but it's the one I tend to use most.

Two Metropoli would be pretty good though!

Alexander Kuznetsov · Post by **Alexander Kuznetsov** » Tue May 05, 2015 9:40 pm

Abraxis, thanks.

MATSmile · Post by **MATSmile** » Tue May 05, 2015 11:40 pm

Alexander Kuznetsov wrote:The question to the users of Metropolis. Is it enough for you to have one Metropolis in your system? it is too little to have 8 steps, in my opinion.

Ohh, you are sooo mistaking saying this. Repeats, skips, pauses, sustained notes + two CV inputs that can be routed to pretty much every parameter. Killer thing.

MOD WIGGLER

MOD WIGGLER

Rene vs Metropolis