Rene vs Metropolis

davidh · Post by **davidh** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:37 am

the video is here :

Stephen_Hawking · Post by **Stephen_Hawking** » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:03 pm

Let me preface this post by saying a few things.

I realize that the choice of eurorack modules is very personal and subjective. Below will be my subjective, personal opinion regarding my experience with the Rene and the Metropolis. I do not claim to be an expert on either module but have worked with both.

I have owned the Rene... twice. I really love the idea of the Rene and when I see some videos of people using it, it makes me want it. Then when I get it in my hands, I realize that my "music creation" mind just does not gel with the Rene. I can't put my finger on a specific reason but I can say that every time I use it, I end up creating more random and less "musical" patches (in my opinion). I feel like I'm chasing my tail, so to speak, trying to coax something out of it. Maybe it is because there really are so many options in the way notes can be chosen, played, skipped, etc that I end up experimenting with it more than making music with it. Also, I think I have undiagnosed ADD.... I have not walked away from a session with the Rene feeling like I have created something I want to keep. Now don't get me wrong, the Rene is a wonderful module and I am sure that a majority of my experience probably has to do with user error/ignorance but I'm just not a patient person. However, I do see myself having one permanently, eventually.

I just recently received the Metropolis and we hit it off immediately. I have read a lot of different posts about the Metropolis being suited more for EDM type stuff where as the Rene is more suitable for unorthodox/random/ambient type stuff. I will not disagree that each one has it's particular strengths, however, I do not make EDM and find the metropolis very conducive to creating evolving, dark, rhythmically interesting sequences. I am more into the soundscape type stuff and love this thing.

The layout of the metropolis is more clear-cut to me. I feel like I can hear a melody or a rhythm and recreate it with much more ease than I have ever been able to do with the Rene. It is much more accessible to my brain. To me, transcribing sequences and allowing them to evolve is a dream with the metropolis. The addition of the A and B aux modulations are amazing. I realize the Rene has a quantizer but I find the quantizer on the Metropolis to be much more fun to use, and, in addition, much more straight forward. As an added bonus, the Metro has a built in clock divider which is great too.

I'm not sure anyone will actually get to the end of this entire post but the bottom line is, both sequencers are well thought out, well built, and very fun to use. I am not going to say the typical "get both" statement at this time. I am going to advise that you think about the kind of music you want to create and how your brain works. I feel like the Metro is much more linear, obvious, and accessible and has some incredible added features. It's also great at creating evolving sequences. The Rene, to me, is less predictable, and not as easy to get an idea from my mind into my synth.

miles_macquarrie · Post by **miles_macquarrie** » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:03 pm

Stephen_Hawking wrote:Let me preface this post by saying a few things.

I realize that the choice of eurorack modules is very personal and subjective. Below will be my subjective, personal opinion regarding my experience with the Rene and the Metropolis. I do not claim to be an expert on either module but have worked with both.

I have owned the Rene... twice. I really love the idea of the Rene and when I see some videos of people using it, it makes me want it. Then when I get it in my hands, I realize that my "music creation" mind just does not gel with the Rene. I can't put my finger on a specific reason but I can say that every time I use it, I end up creating more random and less "musical" patches (in my opinion). I feel like I'm chasing my tail, so to speak, trying to coax something out of it. Maybe it is because there really are so many options in the way notes can be chosen, played, skipped, etc that I end up experimenting with it more than making music with it. Also, I think I have undiagnosed ADD.... I have not walked away from a session with the Rene feeling like I have created something I want to keep. Now don't get me wrong, the Rene is a wonderful module and I am sure that a majority of my experience probably has to do with user error/ignorance but I'm just not a patient person. However, I do see myself having one permanently, eventually.

I just recently received the Metropolis and we hit it off immediately. I have read a lot of different posts about the Metropolis being suited more for EDM type stuff where as the Rene is more suitable for unorthodox/random/ambient type stuff. I will not disagree that each one has it's particular strengths, however, I do not make EDM and find the metropolis very conducive to creating evolving, dark, rhythmically interesting sequences. I am more into the soundscape type stuff and love this thing.

The layout of the metropolis is more clear-cut to me. I feel like I can hear a melody or a rhythm and recreate it with much more ease than I have ever been able to do with the Rene. It is much more accessible to my brain. To me, transcribing sequences and allowing them to evolve is a dream with the metropolis. The addition of the A and B aux modulations are amazing. I realize the Rene has a quantizer but I find the quantizer on the Metropolis to be much more fun to use, and, in addition, much more straight forward. As an added bonus, the Metro has a built in clock divider which is great too.

I'm not sure anyone will actually get to the end of this entire post but the bottom line is, both sequencers are well thought out, well built, and very fun to use. I am not going to say the typical "get both" statement at this time. I am going to advise that you think about the kind of music you want to create and how your brain works. I feel like the Metro is much more linear, obvious, and accessible and has some incredible added features. It's also great at creating evolving sequences. The Rene, to me, is less predictable, and not as easy to get an idea from my mind into my synth.

I agree with a lot of what you say here.... Metropolis is definitely easier to get something going fast and doing really pretty melodic things with is quickly. If I could only keep one it would probably be Metropolis, but I also love Rene. The way it can interact with the wogglebug is great in my system so my question to all of you is this??????

Should I sell them both and get a Koma Komplex sequencer? I'm seriously thinking about it.

davidh · Post by **davidh** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:18 am

actually you can make EDM or Random easily with both

but yes for random stuff, I feel better with René as there more ways to influence his randomness, and vice versa for Metropolis

at the end it's a personal approach on how you feel about the control of the module (quantizer scale list vs build any scale, linear steps vs unlocked steps, programing vs live interaction)

Montgomery Word · Post by **Montgomery Word** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:45 pm

i had rene + metropolis. metropolis never would match my scales well and i didn't like its clicky switches. bought another rene and i'm very happy. but i do miss electro riffs. meh.

richc90 · Post by **richc90** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:52 pm

davidh wrote:at the end it's a personal approach on how you feel about the control of the module

Totally agree. Personally, I love my René and all those videos about it were largely responsible for my eventual descent into modular synthesis.

BTByrd · Post by **BTByrd** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:06 pm

I have a Rene and have used a FR 777 and Revolution for modular sequencing in the past. Rene is very cool and useful for generating new variations in realtime via direct control or using CV. The hands-on aspect is heaps of fun. But for raw ease of sequencing, I don't think there's anything in Euro that can compete with the BeatStep Pro. 2 channels, tons of storage, quantizers and custom scales available, "keyboard" mode, and 8X gate sequencers... all with integrated MIDI->CV conversion. And it's dirt cheap. It's my top recommendation for most people looking to sequence their modules. Saves you money and HP but gives you even more functionality than most.

dbeats · Post by **dbeats** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:13 pm

As others have reported before: I own both Rene and Metropolis and although they are technically speaking both sequencers with maybe like 75% of possible use cases in common, they feel like totally different musical tools in practical patches, at least to me. There has never been a patch situation where I had to think about which one of those to use. They lead to totally different creative results.

I also own a Beatstep Pro as well and I fully agree with BTByrd, but that one also leads to totally different creative results, at least for me, so I will keep all three and also will buy a Trigger Riot.

Stephen_Hawking · Post by **Stephen_Hawking** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:02 am

I was thinking about a BSP for a while but wasn't sure how I would feel about a sequencer from outside of the modular. Are you able to transpose sequences easily with the BSP?

jenz · Post by **jenz** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:55 am

Stephen_Hawking wrote:I was thinking about a BSP for a while but wasn't sure how I would feel about a sequencer from outside of the modular. Are you able to transpose sequences easily with the BSP?

Super easy to transpose. I read alot of people
that don't gel with the BSP due to its firmware. I use mine almost every day.
Fun to sequence per step or record a riff on the fly.

You can use the 8 trig outs to mult/divide clock and it can be a solid midi to cv interface too.

jenz · Post by **jenz** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:59 am

jenz wrote:
Stephen_Hawking wrote:I was thinking about a BSP for a while but wasn't sure how I would feel about a sequencer from outside of the modular. Are you able to transpose sequences easily with the BSP?
Super easy to transpose. I read alot of people
that don't gel with the BSP due to its firmware. I use mine almost every day.
Fun to sequence per step or record a riff on the fly.

You can use the 8 trig outs to mult/divide clock and it can be a solid midi to cv interface too.

Returning to topic: I own a Rene and it will never leave my rack for sure!
Inlove how it can be modulated to never do the same thing twice if you want.
Never tried a Metropolis...

geremyf · Post by **geremyf** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:25 am

I Use one of the trigger outputs of my BSP to clock my metropolis, and occasionally a second for reset. Great great combo. Transposing on the bsp is easy. Hold the sequencer button and hit the new key or octave switch.

damase · Post by **damase** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:45 am

Really love my rene, but i had to remove it from my live setup. The idea behind it is amazing and i will never sell it because its an instrument in its own right. With rene you get to choose quantized notes but i could never get a grip on selecting the notes quick enough in performance...I would trade all those pads for a small penrose style keyboard and a 16 buttons in a much smaller array. Or if i could just plug a midi keyboard into it just for note selection. I could use a secondary quantizer afterwards but the added HP/complication turns me off. So its been bumped to the studio case where i can appreciate it fully.

Also a transpose input would make the sequences much more expandable past that rene architecture.. I havent seen any mention of firmware updates or feature additions.

To be fair for the thread... I dislike having to select my quantized notes by scale even more so metroplis would be in the same boat for me if i owned one.

technomania · Post by **technomania** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:20 pm

own a metropolis, love it for sequencing. easy to do long drawn out atmospheres, or short 1/16 note bass lines.

Bigsteak · Post by **Bigsteak** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:32 pm

I've been meaning to ask this somewhere and this thread seems perfect.

This video makes me really want a metropolis:

But I'm leaning towards rene for other reasons. With rene, can I transpose via CV in the same manner as that video?

According to the user: "The lfo is transposing the metropolis via aux 2 and the brainseed generates random cv's modulating octaves via aux 1"

If I can do that with rene then I'll definitely get one. If not, I think I might give metropolis a shot. Seems like you can get a lot of variation out of those 8 steps.

I had my heart set on a BSP but I wish it had CV ins for transposition and timing and such.

damase · Post by **damase** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:38 pm

No transpose on rene

nectarios · Post by **nectarios** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:41 pm

Added a Doepfer A-185-2 and transposing + 8ve switching, is a breeze.

Bigsteak · Post by **Bigsteak** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:37 pm

nectarios wrote:Added a Doepfer A-185-2 and transposing + 8ve switching, is a breeze.

So do you go Sequencer CV Out > A-185-2 > Oscillators? Meaning I could get a precision adder and use it with my sq-1 to do what I want? That might be just what I need.

Edit: Furthermore, since it seems obvious to me now that that IS how it works, can you also use CV to control the adder? That way you could use an LFO to move between the different switches?

nectarios · Post by **nectarios** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:56 pm

Bigsteak wrote:
nectarios wrote:Added a Doepfer A-185-2 and transposing + 8ve switching, is a breeze.
So do you go Sequencer CV Out > A-185-2 > Oscillators? Meaning I could get a precision adder and use it with my sq-1 to do what I want? That might be just what I need.

Edit: Furthermore, since it seems obvious to me now that that IS how it works, can you also use CV to control the adder? That way you could use an LFO to move between the different switches?

The switches add or subtract (center position is kill) what ever CV is patched into their corresponding input. If nothing is patched in, they add/subtract, 1V.

Their output is then summed to the buffered outs. You only add/subtract manually.
The top input has an attenuator (that spans 1V from fully CCW to CW).

It's the handiest module, especially for playing out.

Bigsteak · Post by **Bigsteak** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:15 am

nectarios wrote:
Bigsteak wrote:
nectarios wrote:Added a Doepfer A-185-2 and transposing + 8ve switching, is a breeze.
So do you go Sequencer CV Out > A-185-2 > Oscillators? Meaning I could get a precision adder and use it with my sq-1 to do what I want? That might be just what I need.

Edit: Furthermore, since it seems obvious to me now that that IS how it works, can you also use CV to control the adder? That way you could use an LFO to move between the different switches?
The switches add or subtract (center position is kill) what ever CV is patched into their corresponding input. If nothing is patched in, they add/subtract, 1V.

Their output is then summed to the buffered outs. You only add/subtract manually.
The top input has an attenuator (that spans 1V from fully CCW to CW).

It's the handiest module, especially for playing out.

Thanks for the help. I have to get one now.

nectarios · Post by **nectarios** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:43 am

Had both for half a week. Metropolis went out the door.

I think its a great 8 step sequencer and the way it works, helps you focus on that one bassline or what have you, but ultimately, its just a very expensive sequencer that is very big and has only one CV/Gate out and only 8 CV steps.

Rene is much more interesting, twice the CV steps, twice the CV outs, twice the gate outs and runs circles around the Metro with regards to clocking and modulating.

I did think that a Metro might find a place in my case again but that thought went out the window when Stilson mk2 came out.

Zymos · Post by **Zymos** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:08 pm

Kept Rene, sold Metro and got the AD Sequencer 1.

stylesforfree · Post by **stylesforfree** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:32 pm

I have made so many beautiful rhythms with rene, and the scale programming is so easy and if you own a maths it pairs ridiculously well with it.

dbeats · Post by **dbeats** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:11 pm

I still really love both of these sequencers. But there is one thing for me that is still totally missing in the Metropolis, and not directly implemented in the Rene either: a way to program and send accents.

Many users say Metropolis is an instant acid/techno sequencer, but without accents that is not fully true in my opinion. Some say you could use a second simple trigger sequencer to program accents separately. But many of us use the brownian mode or the cv ins for stages and dividers to create variations and randomness with Metropolis, so a linear external add-on sequencer is not always an option.

With Rene you need to save the qcv sequence and work with the second cv layer, that is at least an option, but then you lose the tactical editing of the qcv sequence...

ugokcen · Post by **ugokcen** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:47 pm

Rene for me all the way. Takes a while to learn but the investment is totally worth it. The stuff I came up with it would never occur to me if I was working with a traditional moog style analog sequencer or a keyboard based sequencer (sh-101 style). Metropolis has some unique features as well and I would be up for it if it was more quirky. But what I look for in a sequencer is for it to get me out of my comfort zone, you might be different.

There are ways to get ties and accents with Rene using the logic functions and a few auxiliary modules. I have some examples here: viewtopic.php?t=176159&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

MOD WIGGLER

MOD WIGGLER

Rene vs Metropolis

Rene vs Metro

Re: Rene vs Metro

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