Going modular with the Minimoog Voyager?

BTByrd · Post by **BTByrd** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:12 am

[This is crossposted from the general modular thread because I'm leaning toward building a MOTM system. I hope that's not poor forum etiquette!]

Greetings all!

I've been toying with the idea of going modular recently, but I don't have a huge budget to do so. I've got a Minimoog Voyager that I know and love dearly, and I think that it could sit at the heart of a modular setup. It seems like with all the CV and I/O that the Voyager (and my two Moogerfoogers), I already have something like a small modular on my hands. With the Voyager, I have (in effect) a MIDI/CV converter, three oscillators, two filters, the X/Y touchpad and all the rest. (I don't yet have the Voyager breakout box, but that's my next gear purchase for sure.) I'd like to start adding some new modules (like filters / waveshapers) that will help me to get more tones out of my current setup. Eventually I'll get around to adding bread and butter things like oscillators (I've been having daydreams about the Zeroscillator), but that's a long way off.

My question to you fine, knowledgeable folks is... if you had a Voyager and a CV-351 laying around and wanted to build a modular, how would you proceed? What format would you choose, and what would your first 5 (or so) modules be?

As it stands, I'm leaning toward getting a 10 space flight case/rack and starting to stock it with a couple MOTM filters and maybe the dotcom instrument interface and one or two "utilitarian" modules (like mixers).

Any comments or help would be appreciated.

nerdware · Post by **nerdware** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:16 pm

I certainly recommend getting an external input module, but you might not want to mix MOTM and MU (Dotcom, Moog, etc) formats in one case. You'd need two different sets of rails and fill the MU rails with MU modules and the MOTM rails with MOTM modules. You can do that, of course, but it may limit your choices a little. (However, see below.)

I have such a mixed system in a 10U case, so I know it can work well. I even have a Q118. However, if you're new to modular synths, the additional complexity may be daunting. So I recommend keeping it simple and using either entire MU or entirely MOTM. It'll also look prettier.

The Oakley EFG module will be a good alternative to the Q118 if you choose MOTM.

Of course, if you don't mind a few gaps between some modules, you could mount the MOTM modules on MU rails. See viewtopic.php?t=6598 for details.

ach_gott · Post by **ach_gott** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:29 pm

I think you've got a fine plan brewing there... Here's what I would recommend filter-wise:
- A pair of MOTM-485s can be quite nasty and I mean that in the nicest way.
- It's hard to argue with the maginificent MOTM-440, which can have a nice 'woody' character when you're not using to rock the bass lines.
- MOTM-480 will be very different from what you have, but it's best when you're modulating it, so I'd combine it with LFOs.

As for utility modules, the MOTM LFOs are easy to DiY and I recommend that route. They can also be found relatively inexpensively in the second hand market.

sandyb · Post by **sandyb** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:31 pm

hi BTByrd

welcome to the forum. generally we ask people to not crosspost for a few reasons - see this announcement for details:
viewtopic.php?t=6696
i've left this thread intact in 5U (and deleted the one in general) as it had a reply already and it seems that's where you are looking in terms of modules. if you want i can move it all to general modular discussion so others who have a voyager, but maybe not 5U systems, will see the thread and comment - just let me know if you'd like me to do this.
i don't have a voyager but you could do a lot worse than have a look at some of Modcan's b series offerings. here's a link:
http://www.modcan.com/bseries/modulesb.html

sandy

thermionicjunky · Post by **thermionicjunky** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:42 pm

You could use the Modcan Envelope Follower as your input module. It sounds like the Phase/Timbre module would satisfy your desire for timbral expansion. Both MOTM and Modcan have great filter selections and Modcan has a lot of great effects processors and CV sources. Both offer or are developing digital oscillators, which would drastically expand the scope of your system.

Kent · Post by **Kent** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:16 pm

Here's a portion of my setup:

[video][/video]

Most important questions first: What kind of music are you planning to do and what is your budget?

I've got 2 Moogers, a TM-1 & TM-2, an AssBlaster, a Wretch Machine and a pretty decent Euro-Rack and Frac-Rack System. The Roger Linn Adrenalinn also fits into the Live Rig. If you ever want to discuss this lengthy subject via Skype or iChat, shoot me a PM.

I'll quickly suggest some kind of wave-folder and/or distortion. Some overtly digital stuff might be nice, but you may have to go with Euro-Rack or Frac for that. Outside of ModCan, of course.

Oh, yeah: and the VX-351 CV output expander is a must have. I'm dying to incorporate my CP-201 pedal into the mix, but sourcing the damn power supply is giving me trouble...

rezzn8r · Post by **rezzn8r** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:47 pm

Welcome BTByrd! good luck with you plans of expansion.
Similar to your situation, I had a Moog LittlePhatty + CP251 + MF103 + MF104 when Modular thoughts began to enter my brain. The LP is no Voyager

but you get the picture. I too was also attracted to the 5U form factor, because I was already comfortable with (and invested in) the 1/4" format. nerdware makes a good point regarding rails and widths. It might be a good idea to choose .com or MOTM for your 1st cabinet. It will keep things simpler, if that is what you want.
I must admit that I rarely cross-patch my MoogLP and ModcanB. I tend to treat them as discrete systems. I'm sure I'm missing out on a world of possibilities, but

pay special attention to kent's demo as it touches on a few important things to consider.

nice demo, kent!
2:52

but seriously, some very fundamental cross-patching techniques covered, in particular vca use.

XXXEsq · Post by **XXXEsq** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:20 pm

Welcome BTByrd
Glad you made it from that other site...

You'll be glad you did.

JohnLRice · Post by **JohnLRice** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:38 pm

Welcome BTByrd!

BTByrd · Post by **BTByrd** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:12 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone [and apologies for the cross post!]!
Glad to know I'm finally in the right place to be asking my modular questions!

I can't fully respond to everyone right now (running out the door) but I just thought I'd throw out a bit more information.

What type of music do I make? Well here's my most recent track, which is essentially 90 stereo tracks of my Voyager:

http://soundcloud.com/btbyrd/spaceships ... oog-voyage

It's not all electro trance though. I've got affinities to bands like Shpongle and Orbital who have pretty downtempo stuff (as well as more traditional electro-rock like LCD soundsystem and The Faint).

As for my current budget, I'd like to stay below $1200 for right now.

Thanks again for your help - I'll be responding in more depth later!

Kent · Post by **Kent** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:18 am

Thanks, rezzn8r. Much appreciated. I'd only had the Voyager for a couple of hours when I filmed that... Shortly thereafter, I discovered the switch that forces the VCA open. No need to wedge cables between keys...

BTByrd, ModCan could well be in your future. However, a case and PSU would eat up about 1/2 (or more) of your budget. You'd be able to squeeze out maybe two modules to put in it if you went up to around $1300 and that doesn't include shipping.

If you do go with ModCan, I think that some effects would be in order. The VC Flanger, Digital Delay, Spring Reverb or perhaps a Diode Filter for an altogether different sound. The Mini-Wave would be Tons of fun as well and can be brought in through the External input. Plus, it would allow you to have a separate osc. that could be routed independently from the 3 oscs. in the Voyager. The CV Recorder would be great too but may not be a necessity when starting out since the Voyager responds to MIDI and you can sequence that stuff.
All of the above-mentioned modules respond best and come alive with CV control. This would mean that you would have to also squeeze the VX-351 into your budget.

You could look at adding the Moogerfooger delay, but I've found out that it is really quite dark. I'd prefer the Pigtronix Echolution. You can get some CV-features added to it on custom basis if needed. It has tap-tempo, which is handy.
For some very interesting filtering and lots of distortion (if wanted) the Metasonix AssBlaster/KV-100 would open up some very different sonic territory.

If you are mostly doing recording, the FX could stay In-The-Box, at least for now, and that would free up a huge amount of cash for other things. It gets harder to recommend things when a computer-heavy setup is used. I was thinking that the forth-coming Analogue Solutions sequencer would be great fun with the Voyager, but you may be comfortable with a laptop and chosen sequencer & FX.

I'll close with another important question: "What features & sounds do you feel are lacking with your current rig?"

I find that the lack of being able to create a storable tremolo patch (without the VX-351 or outboard LFO) to be a weird oversight (solved by the Adrenalinn) and the inability to independently route an osc. to the outside world restricting. The Miniwave (or other outboard osc.) can help there. Maybe the MF-107 would work for you if you wanted that feature. The Mini-Wave would bring a very different tonal palette though.

BTW, all of my suggestions for types of modules can be found outside of the 5U format. That's how I roll right now and it saves space. Plus, the Euro-Format is exploding with offerings and many of them are quite adventurous. Harvestman Tyme Sefari?

thermionicjunky · Post by **thermionicjunky** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:31 am

Kent wrote: BTByrd, ModCan could well be in your future. However, a case and PSU would eat up about 1/2 (or more) of your budget. You'd be able to squeeze out maybe two modules to put in it if you went up to around $1300 and that doesn't include shipping.

The Modcan cases and rails are expensive, but the modules can be mounted in MOTM rails. The power supplies are more expensive, but supply more current. A 10U case with two pairs of MOTM rails would be quite reasonable.

BTByrd · Post by **BTByrd** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:01 pm

Again, I'd like to thank everyone for the fantastic responses. I've been taking your comments into consideration and here's what I'm currently thinking.

I want new timbres and I want them from new filters and new types of modulation. I love audio rate FM of filters and oscillators, sweeping the CV and making the harmonics go wild. Same with Ringmod. Oscillator sync is also one of my best friends. Be sure to check that Soundcloud link to hear what I'm doing with my unexpanded Voyager (plus the Moogerfooger phaser and ringmod).

I decided to go with a mix of MOTM/Oakley and Modcan for precisely the reasons that thermionicjunky provided. Lots of quality filter options and Modcan makes some awesome processors. Eurorack looks like a crazy/fun format, but I think having to switch from the 1/4" jacks would screw up my workflow too much (unless there's a REALLY EASY workaround that I'm not aware of).

Anyway, here's the plan.

Step 1: Tidying up
Rack the Moogerfoogers along with the CV Voyager expander and the Moog Control processor (neither of which I have yet, but I wasn't really including them in my "new modular" budget).

Step 2: Make a new space
10 Space Flight Case + 2X MOTM 19A Rails and Motm-900 PSU (220) to form the back bone of my system.

I happily admit that JLR's 10 U pic (in another recent thread) really got me excited about the look of my final system (although, if I go Modcan I'm not sure how the white modules will look mixed in)! I know that Modcan and MOTM use different power connectors. This is something that can easily be solved with an adapter, right? Is it going to be a big pain in the ass to power a modular that's half Modcan and half MOTM from one MOTM power supply?

Step 3: The actual modules
MOTM-420 MS20 Filter (because I've always wanted a MS-20, and then I wanted the Frostwave pedal, and now I'll have this!)
MOTM-440 (I may get two of these eventually)

Modcan 45B Envelope Follower
Modcan 10B Multimode Filter (because I don't have an analog BP)... I love to make 4 tracks of the same bandpass filtered part with different filter settings and really make the filters go wild... if anyone has another BPF suggestion, I'd like one (but I like you get two for the price of one)

Even these, however, aren't set. I thank Kent for his suggestions about effects with the Modcan. I do mostly work ITB with effects, so that's less of a concern for me. As far as distortions/waveshaping goes, does anyone have some suggestions? I was excited by the Metasonics stuff when I first heard about it, but their sound often doesn't appeal to me from the demos I've seen.

Thanks again for your comments and suggestions. Please keep them coming!

sandyb · Post by **sandyb** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:16 pm

BTByrd

this thread should explain your power questions. feel free to pm me if you're not sure about anything.
viewtopic.php?t=1739

it's easy to power both modcan and motm modules off one supply.
make sure to keep us informed about how your plan goes.

sandy

Kent · Post by **Kent** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:36 pm

Waveshapers & Distortions that would work in your format (a.k.a. 5U) of choice:

STG SoundLabs Wave Folder (I've got a Euro one. It's very nice in the Mids and can double as a VCA). Check it out here

CGS Wave Multiplier. I've got a Metalbox built one and adore it. It sounds like this when fed with some hot FM Sine on Sine action : Metalbox Wave Multiplier

CGS Tube VCA. Another Metalbox build. VCA and tube grit in one. Not as radical as the Metasonix R51... until you crank the feedback

Oakley Overdrive. You can get them built in 5U format as well. Here's a pic of the Frac version. I've never heard this one in person, but have heard it on the interwebs. Krisp1 will make 'em for ya.

The Malekko B:AssMaster calls to my heart. Mostly because of this video.
[video][/video]

thermionicjunky · Post by **thermionicjunky** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:31 pm

The Modcan dual multimode is the 40B. The 10B is a single. The 06B has a couple of timbre modulators. This thread has some examples:
viewtopic.php?t=1734

pugix · Post by **pugix** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:10 pm

BTByrd wrote: I happily admit that JLR's 10 U pic (in another recent thread) really got me excited about the look of my final system (although, if I go Modcan I'm not sure how the white modules will look mixed in)! I know that Modcan and MOTM use different power connectors. This is something that can easily be solved with an adapter, right? Is it going to be a big pain in the ass to power a modular that's half Modcan and half MOTM from one MOTM power supply?

I mix them in a MOTM case with no problems. Here are a few pics.

MOTM and Modcan B

When ordering Modcan B modules you can ask to have one end of the power cable left without a connector and wire on your own MOTM type connector. For the VCDO and CV Recorder, I asked for a 3-supply power cable. I wired onto that a 6-pin connector that plugs right into a MOTM-950 power supply. This reduces the current draw on the +15 volt supply, by eliminating the onboard voltage converter and using the external +5 supply of the 950. The Modcan PC boards are all set up for this; they just need custom assembly. (I would recommend this not be tried as a DIY modification, but have it done by Modcan.)

And BTW, Modcan B are not white, but are a subtle off-white with a greenish tint. Nice looking. And these modules fit perfectly into a MOTM case.

BTByrd · Post by **BTByrd** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:12 am

Kent - I really love the sound of the CGS Wave Multiplier, but am a bit clueless about metalboxing builds. I did a quick Googling on the CGS and came across the chip, but don't know if it's possible to buy a fully assembled 5U version of this module. I also fell in love with the Malekko B:AssMaster after seeing that video. I'm thinking that will be my boutique distortion pedal of choice (this Metal Zone ain't cuttin' it).

Pugix - Good to know about the Modcan colors; I can't wait to see them for myself! The samples of their VCDO really sold me on that module; I think I'm going to have to ditch a filter in favor of an oscillator! Also, thanks to thermionicjunky for clearing up my model number confusion on the BPF (it's hard to keep it all straight sometimes).

I'm going to keep thinking everything over for the next month or so; I'm about to sell my most beloved effects unit (an Eventide H8000FW) and my most powerful digital synth (V-Synth XT) to pay some bills and finance the modular move. It'll take a while for all that to sort itself out, but I will be sure to keep you all posted on my decisions and progress.

Kent · Post by **Kent** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:54 pm

Hey BTByrd,

Cat Girl Synths is where you can buy PCBs for making a whole slew of cool things. The Tube VCA and the Wave Multiplier being among them. They are fully DIY, but the ever-awesome http://www.metalbox.com/ builds them in Frac format & I'd bet that you can get something made in 5U. Another option would be to go to Bridechamber.com and get full kits for your 5U Wave Multiplier and/or the Tube VCA . Be sure to click on the links in order to check out the sexy pictures.

Popski · Post by **Popski** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:31 pm

Are there any issues with operational voltages when using the voyager or vx351 with modular gear?

thermionicjunky · Post by **thermionicjunky** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:10 pm

Bridechamber also sells assembled Wave Multipliers, but only when in stock, which isn't often. It's $350 and comes with a Real Ring Modulator.

http://www.bridechamber.com/bridechambe ... Mults.html

ach_gott · Post by **ach_gott** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:19 pm

Popski wrote:Are there any issues with operational voltages when using the voyager or vx351 with modular gear?

Looking at the VX-351 documentation, I wouldn't think so. No voltage goes below -5V and no voltage goes above +5V.

Also, with most modern modular designs, input voltages are clipped beyond a certain range (up to a point).

chinard · Post by **chinard** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:34 pm

Popski wrote:Are there any issues with operational voltages when using the voyager or vx351 with modular gear?

I havent noticed any.
Been using my v'ger and euro setup for years with no ill effects.

Popski · Post by **Popski** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:53 pm

chinard wrote:
Popski wrote:Are there any issues with operational voltages when using the voyager or vx351 with modular gear?
I havent noticed any.
Been using my v'ger and euro setup for years with no ill effects.

great!!! I've got a decent Euro set-up and I'll finally be getting a voyager mit expander shortly.

can't wait!!

CZ Rider · Post by **CZ Rider** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:04 am

Popski wrote:Are there any issues with operational voltages when using the voyager or vx351 with modular gear?

There are a few that may or may not be an issue for your application.

First the CV out from the keyboard, although it is 1v/oct, the F equals 0 volts, while some manufactures would have C as 0 volt. Depending on the oscillator used this may be no big deal. But for instance, Roland 100M oscillators need the fine tune knob turned way down to compensate. And if you plan on controlling a self contained mono-synth, the fine tune may not have a wide enough range to compensate. The reason behind the 0 volt equals F, I guess is because the F is the lowest key? The voltage is transposeable plus or minus 2 octaves, but in normal position the lowest F is at -1 volt.

The keyboard CV out from the vx351 is not buffered properly. A simple fix, but you would think for the price of the vx351, it would be designed better. Some users noticed with dot com oscillators that as more oscillators were added, the voltage would droop, requiring re-tuning. I tried controlling a Q960 sequencer running at audio speed as an oscillator. The vx351 didn't have enough juce to properly get 1 v/oct., it needed to be run through a buffer like a MOTM 820 to drive the Q960 oscillator. So the keyboard CV is anemic at best.

If you plan on using the Voyager oscillators from and external CV source, you may have problems since they are not 1v/oct. So a CV sequencer with quantized outs set for 1v/oct. won't be in tune. (Just use MIDI)

The rest of the CV outs do a good enough job, and controlling a modular from the touch pad is a blast. The noise source is typical Moog and only about 2 or so volts out. The vx351 has little in the way of circutry, and the average DIY'er could design a similar interface. Only has a tl082 for the kbd. scale, no buffer, all the other jacks are simply unbuffered and directly connected to the multi pin socket. Moog never officially released the pin out for either in/out multi-pin socket, but it would be easy to make and wouldn't cost $295, even with a custom panel in your favorite format.

Inside the vx351. One LM2940, a TL082, trimmer, 3 caps, 2 resistors, 2 pots, 33 jacks. Not very complex?

MOD WIGGLER

MOD WIGGLER

Going modular with the Minimoog Voyager?

Going modular with the Minimoog Voyager?