5U Nuub Diary

John_Chowning · Post by **John_Chowning** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:57 pm

that's right ... i've changed my mind again .... well, actually it was my budget that changed my mind.

my first ever modular synth build will be a Dotcom system, following their Entry System plan. I've decided to upgrade to a portable case, because i believe modular synths should be taken out and played in public as much as possible.

So I thought i would document the process and my reactions to it for other newbies starting with 5U / dotcom. The trendiest format these days seems to be Eurorack so perhaps this will be a useful diary for people who are starting in 5U instead. Some day i would like to build a euro system with valves and maths and woggles but i'm gonna start with a traditional moogclone first and work my way up.

And here's entry number one. I contacted Synthesizers.com via email and told them i wanted to get the entry system plan, that i wanted to upgrade to the portable case, and that i live in Canada. That means a bit extra in the shipping department. But still within my budget (barely).

They replied ... a rep named Margo .... and answered my questions quickly, even if they did use a form email response that was slightly confusing. but basically i think i understand how to do things their way, and i have confirmed my order and will make the first payment soon.

Stay tuned ....

John_Chowning · Post by **John_Chowning** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:18 pm

my buddy here just asked why i chose 5U over Euro for my first synth. here's my thought process:

1. I can buy a 5U system for $135 a month while a Euro system will take more investment, especially initially.

2. Since this is my first hardware modular, if i eff up and fry the whole thing halfway through the build, i can just cancel the rest of the payment installments and i won't be out that much money. I've never really DIYed anything before.

3. I can afford the portable case upgrade for the 5U system and i really want to start w/ a portable synth. my first eurorack case would have been a tiptop happy ending.

4. It's big ... i'd rather start by patching w/ guitar cables than headphone cables.

5. It's traditional.... the module structure of the entry system is a pretty standard two-osc one-filt affair. I'm gonna wrap my head around these and know them inside out before i get a confusing euro system with advanced valve modules and east coast modules.

6. It's got that Moog sound, son. What part of Moog don't you understand.

7. It's backwards compatible, i can get an adapter module so that it works with my second hardware eurorack modular when i build it (2014?)

... is that enough reasons yet?

NYMo · Post by **NYMo** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:32 pm

You won't have to worry about blowing it up , as there is no DIY involved !

Cheers

Putte · Post by **Putte** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:08 pm

One module a month, I would never have the patience to wait until it made some kind of sound. I agree on the portable thoughts, but I would buy a smaller system as a start.
Also, shipping costs will be huge. Why not buy a few modules at a time, at least?

Thalassa · Post by **Thalassa** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:21 pm

Putte wrote:One module a month, I would never have the patience to wait until it made some kind of sound. I agree on the portable thoughts, but I would buy a smaller system as a start.
Also, shipping costs will be huge. Why not buy a few modules at a time, at least?

I'm agree with you. And even with a small system you can have a lot of fun and also you will learn how things work and this will help you to decide what you need next. A modular system it's a personal instrument, you can choose the modules according to your needs and personal taste.

LoveHertz · Post by **LoveHertz** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:56 pm

John Chowning...jeez thats a name i never thought id see on this analogue list....well mostly....so FM wasn't doing it for you after all these years. I bought your book years ago...FM theory and Applications to help me understand my DX7II....good book but it didn't help much. Would you be interested to buy a as new DX7II?....you don't want analogue....hmmm could be another john chowning or his son thats goin analog. After all the boy musta got tired of hearing all that FM stuff in the house... I wonder if he even had a son.

MR-808 · Post by **MR-808** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:28 pm

Wow, it's Dr. Chowning! My first synth was a DX-7, and your book was a huge influence on my approach to synthesis. :)

Something I've been contemplating when drifting off to sleep the last few nights is how best to approximate a 3 oscillator DX voice on the modular, and whether I want to integrate the modules into one panel, or just group them together and configure the basic FM voice via jack normalization. Seems like a good time to dust off your book. ;)

Glad to have you on board!

John_Chowning · Post by **John_Chowning** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:18 pm

whitewulfe · Post by **whitewulfe** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:58 pm

Out of sheer curiosity, have they mentioned how expensive the shipping will be on the monthly installments?

John_Chowning · Post by **John_Chowning** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:31 pm

Yup. 32$ a module. again, that in addition to the monthly payment is just what i can afford right now.

Nymo said,

"You won't have to worry about blowing it up , as there is no DIY involved !"

You're right ... not DIY in the sense of the term as it is used on this forum. What i meant was "module assembly." i know it's probly not that hard or complicated but i have read quite a few "oh crap you guys, i just fried my modular" threads on this forum already
:eurosmoke:

that's why this exists, right?

bwhittington · Post by **bwhittington** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:58 pm

Note that the emoticon depicts a Euro module. You aren't going to have any problems assembling your Dotcom system. It's power system is a much better design than Euro. 8_)

John_Chowning wrote: i have read quite a few "oh crap you guys, i just fried my modular" threads on this forum already

that's why this exists, right?

John_Chowning · Post by **John_Chowning** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:04 pm

OK all the more reason to build this first and euro later

whitewulfe · Post by **whitewulfe** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:22 pm

Oh, didn't notice if anyone else had mentioned it, but if possible, request the CRS upgrade for your oscillators as the cost is virtually nothing ($25 per oscillator), and it helps a great deal if you're into tonal/melodic music.

And hmmm, only $32 for shipping every month, that's interesting to say the least. UPS shipped, or USPS?

Popski · Post by **Popski** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:23 pm

I have improperly seated euro modules sooo many times. Never with the dotcom headers, but the harness still seems slightly bunk to me.
whatever, it works. not complainin'

beyourdog · Post by **beyourdog** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:28 pm

Thalassa wrote:
Putte wrote:One module a month, I would never have the patience to wait until it made some kind of sound. I agree on the portable thoughts, but I would buy a smaller system as a start.
Also, shipping costs will be huge. Why not buy a few modules at a time, at least?
I'm agree with you. And even with a small system you can have a lot of fun and also you will learn how things work and this will help you to decide what you need next. A modular system it's a personal instrument, you can choose the modules according to your needs and personal taste.

Not sure, I got a VCO and filter as my first modules on my 5u for a couple of months until I could afford something else, it is a great learning curve/experience to start and build slow so you really optimise your sound/potential. I think that bit by bit a step at the time is great, not everybody can afford by systems and not everybody has GAS to spend 1000$ on a modules they barely use in Eurorackland on redundant patches...

I would personnally really support his approach ... congratulations and welcome to 5U.

John_Chowning · Post by **John_Chowning** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:32 pm

whitewulfe wrote:Oh, didn't notice if anyone else had mentioned it, but if possible, request the CRS upgrade for your oscillators as the cost is virtually nothing ($25 per oscillator), and it helps a great deal if you're into tonal/melodic music.

And hmmm, only $32 for shipping every month, that's interesting to say the least. UPS shipped, or USPS?

Hmm. The entry system option didn't mention anything about this. I hope that's rolled into the charge, and if it's not, well, maybe i can get the upgrade for at least one of the oscs later. (Looks like the other will need to function mostly as an LFO at least in the beginning.) Hope i can still produce "tonal/melodic" patches.

The shipping will be DHL as that is their preferred method to ship from the US to Canada. (I'm in Vancouver.)

sduck · Post by **sduck** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:49 pm

John_Chowning wrote: ... a rep named Margo ....

Hi John! Welcome on board! I started out with a pile of dotcom systems, until I discovered I liked blowing up synthesizers via DIY.

That "rep" would be Margo Arrick, wife of Roger. She basically runs the company. And does virtually all the phone communication for them, at least in my experience.

VinceL · Post by **VinceL** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:23 pm

John_Chowning wrote:
whitewulfe wrote:Oh, didn't notice if anyone else had mentioned it, but if possible, request the CRS upgrade for your oscillators as the cost is virtually nothing ($25 per oscillator), and it helps a great deal if you're into tonal/melodic music.
Hmm. The entry system option didn't mention anything about this. I hope that's rolled into the charge, and if it's not, well, maybe i can get the upgrade for at least one of the oscs later. (Looks like the other will need to function mostly as an LFO at least in the beginning.) Hope i can still produce "tonal/melodic" patches.

The CRS upgrade requires a small PCB to be soldered to the main oscillator PCB. So, unless you are an experienced DIY'er, you would have to ship the oscillator back to Synthesizers.com to have it added later.

John_Chowning · Post by **John_Chowning** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:26 pm

sduck wrote: I started out with a pile of dotcom systems, until I discovered I liked blowing up synthesizers via DIY.

The thing about blowing up synths, I always thought, is that it's too costly and difficult to re-blow them up if you're not rolling tape the first time.

over the years, I have captured the deaths of a generic CD player, a boss hc-2 handclapper and a boss RT-20. The first two made amazing sounds that i used repeatedly as percussion samples. I knew they were dying and plugged in their outputs to get down their last words.

:eurosmoke:

The third unexpectedly overloaded after cheap batteries leaked but it was in the middle of a take and turned into another amazing sound that became a set of percussion samples.

John_Chowning · Post by **John_Chowning** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:28 pm

VinceL wrote:
John_Chowning wrote:
whitewulfe wrote:Oh, didn't notice if anyone else had mentioned it, but if possible, request the CRS upgrade for your oscillators as the cost is virtually nothing ($25 per oscillator), and it helps a great deal if you're into tonal/melodic music.
Hmm. The entry system option didn't mention anything about this. I hope that's rolled into the charge, and if it's not, well, maybe i can get the upgrade for at least one of the oscs later. (Looks like the other will need to function mostly as an LFO at least in the beginning.) Hope i can still produce "tonal/melodic" patches.
The CRS upgrade requires a small PCB to be soldered to the main oscillator PCB. So, unless you are an experienced DIY'er, you would have to ship the oscillator back to Synthesizers.com to have it added later.

Thanks. it occurred to me that since the first osc doesn't arrive till the third month and the second until the 12th that i can probably add that fee to a later payment. I'll keep this in mind for sure and talk to Margo (i assume) about it.

Xero · Post by **Xero** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:09 pm

I was originally planning on doing the dotcom starter system, and I was going to just pay off a big chunk at once, like say $300-500ish, so I could have something useful sooner. However, I ended up just spotting a used dotcom portable here in the classifieds and that was a no-brainer.

I also preferred dotcom for the fact it's 1/4" and can plug right into my existing synths. Before I had all the modules I do now, I regularly used my arp odyssey and ms-20 to fill in for the modules I was missing. I'm still using my ms-20 as final EG/VCA stage right now in fact.

It'd be pretty hard to screw up a dotcom system, almost all the connectors are keyed in some way, and it's pretty much just a matter of plugging in a power cable and screwing the modules into a wooden box. Unless you delve into custom modules, you will be pretty safe with dotcom. It's very plug and play.

my Q106's aren't CRS, but I am planning on sending them in for the upgrade. Definitely something I'd get if I had ordered them directly from Roger/Margo. I'm planning on placing my first order with them directly soon. I needs me a Q125!

I also wanted the moog sound, but dotcom isn't "perfectly" moog, by any means. That's more of what mos-lab does, in terms of more perfect moog clones. However, that's not to say you need a full moslab system, for me, that just meant getting the STG soundlabs Mixer (in the mail right now!) which is actually based on the old moog circuits, and I'm planning on building the minimoog VCF clone from yusynth rather than simply get a Q150....however at the moment I just have a Q107 to go with my Q106 oscs.

Another thing to mention is that dotcom doesn't really even make a dedicated LFO module, so rather than waiting for the 12th month for the 2nd osc to use as an LFO, you could go out and buy your own dedicated LFO sooner, if you come across some extra cash here or there. And trust me, once you start...you will! Maybe say...a ssl tap tempo LFO? Or the megaohm dual lfo...or the ssl quad lfo...? Any number of options really, but I highly suggest the tap tempo lfo, it's pretty awesome!

The sooner you dive in, the sooner you'll start to have your own preferences and make tweaks to the system and design. I'm already tempted to ditch my portable and rack case in favor of a custom design portable case, and I'm only a few months into this. I've also realized that you won't get the densest system using only dotcom modules, so if you want portability and dense functionality, you can do that in 5u (and not just euro) but if you're selective about modules you can really save significant space and pull it off well.

LoveHertz · Post by **LoveHertz** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:01 am

apologies for my earlier post...wasn't ment to come across rude....if it did, more surprised...and well... what advice does one give if your the man. I have only Synthesizers.com which it seems like you have been getting good advice about so far. all the best with your chosen system.

Putte · Post by **Putte** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:28 am

If money is an issue, all the more reason to save funds for larger shipments. Lots of the bread and butter modules are 80-110$, and that means you would pay an extra third of the value just for transportation.
IÃ‚Â´ve just ordered five 1U 80-130$ modules, along with some extra parts. Shipments will cost me 60$. Now, that is to Sweden, but I can imagine youÃ‚Â´d have to give up some 40-50$ for that same goods. Compare that to 32$ each time.

This is what I would do in your shoes. Have some patience, save the money each month for about half a year. Then buy a starters set of modules. After that, start saving up for another six months. A year goes fast, half a year is no time at all.

MindMachine · Post by **MindMachine** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:46 am

I own the MOSLAB 904VCF and I am telling you that the combo of the Q150 VCF w/ the STG Mixer sounds as good or better or as Moogy than the MOSLAB in some settings. That is with just Arrick dotcom VCO's too. I will try to do a comparison someday soon, but I cannot emphasize enough how much the STG Mixer helps the Q150 for Moog style growl. I am keeping it in addition to the MOSLAB, which is killer and better at some settings. I also love the versatile Q107 - a very 'electronic' sounding versatile filter.

Happy dotcoming there JC.

John_Chowning · Post by **John_Chowning** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:33 am

i appreciate all the various points of view. love this forum's constant stream of tips.

the short answer is: each month that goes by, after March begins, i will have more and more funds available for synths. but i can't predict when and if that money will appear.

so if i'm suddenly flush with cash and ridin' high because i have lots of work, i will combine the remaining shipments and save as much as i can. that could be in April or it could be in November. until such a time, each month i want to feel like i'm putting something towards this and that my system is growing, so the extra shipping charges are worth it for me.

makes more sense from my side of the keyboard than it does to you guys maybe but that's all good.

...

late friday night here in vancity ...

here's a question for all the people in the know: the standard Entry System ships with a case big enough that even when the last module arrives, you still have space left over. i decided to upgrade to the Portable case .... does that lack the extra space? so when my entry system is done, my portable will be full and my next modules will have to go in Case #2?

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