Hello Hordijk System

richard · Post by **richard** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:40 pm

I would like to know some things about the outputs on Rob's OSC HRM

is there a source of info on this module?

I am wondering about chain out?

Two full level outs are identical?

same question for the VCA outs

also how to sync two of these?

I wonder if there are any other features possible which might be brought out to an expander?

Zeitdehner · Post by **Zeitdehner** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:58 pm

Chain out is just a duplicate of the 1V/OCT IN, so you can just drive multiple oscillators with the same pitch control signal.
Yes, the two FULL OUT are identical, so are the two VCA OUT
Those duplicates just eliminate the need for multiples.
There's no provision for SYNC on the current version of Rob's oscillators. I've heard quite some time ago that Rob was working on a new type of oscillator with a special type of Sync... Dunno where that project stands and don't have any details...
It's not really Rob's "habit" to develop expander/break out type of products. If he's not happy with a design or if he develops new features, then he'll develop a new module alltogether...

blue_lu · Post by **blue_lu** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:14 pm

And here I am still thinking about that last triple pannel.

Shaper/Phaser+TriLFO+DualEnv is the way for me I think, two independent envelopes would be nice...

btw. I am still very happy with the system, I just wish I could spend more time with it these days.

richard · Post by **richard** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:22 pm

Zeitdehner wrote: It's not really Rob's "habit" to develop expander/break out type of products. If he's not happy with a design or if he develops new features, then he'll develop a new module alltogether...

thanks, the reason, I ask is because I'll be repanelling two or three of these for my Serge system so I'm just wondering what functions I really need - seems like those three multed jacks can go straight away and I was wondering if there is something else on the PCB I might be able to take advantage of

Zeitdehner · Post by **Zeitdehner** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:35 pm

Interesting...since all I/O are on dedicated PCBs and since all controls are PCB mounted, I wonder how you'll manage to transform and integrate those into the Serge filosofy...looks like quite a challenge...
Probably there are some exploitable points on the circuits, but you'd better talk about this with the man himself...

blue_lu · Post by **blue_lu** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:37 pm

Btw. since this thread is up top - would you be interested in some sort of hordijk designed touch interface? If so what would you exspect from it?

Zeitdehner · Post by **Zeitdehner** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:20 pm

Wow, talk about an open question... so many considerations here...I'd expect it not to resemble a keyboard and to offer some degree of control and expressiveness not yet available...it would have 8 or 10 circular or oval surfaces of different size (one for each finger and laid out to match two flat resting, open hands) ... it would spit out at least 4 different, scalable CVs (position X&Y, surface, pressure, ...) + gate per surface simultaneously and for all surfaces simultaneously... that would make an awfull lot of jacks ( well, 50 of them is not that much...)... I'd rather have the whole lot analogue, with no ADDAC... dunno if something like that would be feasable or even affordable/reasonable

I once talked about this with Rob, as I was looking for an interesting controller for modular synths, something along the line of Buchla's 222e, but much more open and less dedicated to a single system... he had already been thinking about this but hadn't come up with a viable solution yet...

I for now stopped searching (the search was quickly done...

) and got myselves a little Qunexus... far from perfect but it offers some interesting possibilities for the price...

richard · Post by **richard** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:34 pm

at this point touch for me = FSR

and from the Buchla Thunder I learnt the benefit of a surface being hand shaped

Neovintage · Post by **Neovintage** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:40 am

@blue_lu :
I have exactly this panel but if you want separate envelopes, I'll suggest to wait 4 months (approximatively), Rob is designing "Swing LFO" with AD retriggeable envelopes. We'll see if the gate are independent.

I discussed with Rob about a controller. No visibility so far but it would be awesome.

blue_lu · Post by **blue_lu** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:18 am

Neovintage wrote:@blue_lu :
I have exactly this panel but if you want separate envelopes, I'll suggest to wait 4 months (approximatively), Rob is designing "Swing LFO" with AD retriggeable envelopes. We'll see if the gate are independent.

I discussed with Rob about a controller. No visibility so far but it would be awesome.

Ha, I know! the swing lfo sounds cool. I really don't understand why the dual envelope is always synced - would make much more sense to me if the envelopes could be used seperately, no? how do you guys use the B envelope usally?

I also talked to rob about a controller, he was proposing something along the lines of a serge tkb, and asked for input - but since I am an absolute noob with no touch ctrl experience, I couldn't make any proposals.

Morley · Post by **Morley** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:29 am

blue_lu wrote:
Neovintage wrote:@blue_lu :
I have exactly this panel but if you want separate envelopes, I'll suggest to wait 4 months (approximatively), Rob is designing "Swing LFO" with AD retriggeable envelopes. We'll see if the gate are independent.

I discussed with Rob about a controller. No visibility so far but it would be awesome.
Ha, I know! the swing lfo sounds cool. I really don't understand why the dual envelope is always synced - would make much more sense to me if the envelopes could be used seperately, no? how do you guys use the B envelope usally?

I also talked to rob about a controller, he was proposing something along the lines of a serge tkb, and asked for input - but since I am an absolute noob with no touch ctrl experience, I couldn't make any proposals.

I'd love to suggest a few things about the TKB.
I had one of these and it was modded to act as a sequencer too..
It was wonderful. You could define start and end points of the sequencer by touching the keys and the last step voltage acted as a global transpose.
I really need to get my money together. A Hordijk system is needed here.

blue_lu · Post by **blue_lu** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:34 am

hm. maybe we could come up with a list here that could serve rob as a starting point. he is definately not actively designing it the last time we mailed (two months ago), but he said he might consider doing somehting like it if he could see it to fit the current system.

I think he would like to keep the classic three pannel withdth / layout for such a device though.

Hungryghost · Post by **Hungryghost** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:43 am

A Hordijk's controller and "swing LFO" !!!

I'm sold already.... Being able to create swing using the DualENV has been a game changer for me and can't imagine him attempting a controller without it being unique!!

blue_lu · Post by **blue_lu** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:11 am

Hungryghost wrote:A Hordijk's controller and "swing LFO" !!!

I'm sold already.... Being able to create swing using the DualENV has been a game changer for me and can't imagine him attempting a controller without it being unique!!

could you elaborate briefly how to swing with the dual env?

Hungryghost · Post by **Hungryghost** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:00 am

Well its not exclusive to the Hordijk's ENV but being able to Voltage Control the attack, decay and release times of the envelope using a S&H so that its a different fixed voltage for each env cycle creates lots of different swing type effects!!

(About 5min in)

When you have EnvA controlling a VCA and B a VCF and both are being Voltage controlled by the same source (say release on one and decay on the other) you get all sorts of pushing and pulling effects...

All achievable using multiple modules but really useful when its all built into one (plus my other Env's are not fully VC!)

milkshake · Post by **milkshake** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:20 am

blue_lu wrote:
I really don't understand why the dual envelope is always synced - would make much more sense to me if the envelopes could be used seperately, no? how do you guys use the B envelope usally?

One thing I do is to use envelope A for the volume and/or into the vca mod of the HRM. This envelope has a very musical shape witch you can set with the break and decay 2 knobs. Envelope B is just decay, but it has 2 outputs. The env b out goes to the mod res of the 24dB filter and pol b out goes to the mod 1 of the 24dB filter. This output has a voltage offset to it depending on where the polarity env b knob is. For example if the envelope goes from +10V to 0V then the offset is -5V. This is extremely useful because when you turn the polarity env b knob is does not change the filter cutoff setting of your filter, it just adds a positive or negative decay sweep.

In the example its pol b out that modulates the filter cutoff.
It first goes through a bipolar vca so I can modulate the depth of the filter modulation and also inverse it.
I do not touch the filter cutoff.
And for fun I put some modulation into dcy B cv, to modulate the decay of env b. And put the s&h out into the attack cv of env a, you can hear this at the end of the example.

I hope its all clear, if not let me know.

blue_lu · Post by **blue_lu** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:23 am

thanks hungryghost and milkshake, very helpfull

milkshake that soundsample is sick. I need to try this right away.

blue_lu · Post by **blue_lu** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:12 pm

so much to learn. this is awesome.

Zeitdehner · Post by **Zeitdehner** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:31 pm

Well, there are countless uses for a simple decaying/rising slope, the most obvious ones being modulation of a filter while the A ENV is modulating a VCA, or modulation of one of the parameters of the A ENV, or adding realism to emulations of acoustic/natural sounds by slight modulation of the pitch of an oscillator (works best on plucked/percussive sounds, with short attack), etc...
These applications take advantage of the fact that the two envelopes share the same gate.
For patches where delayed or asynchronous gating is needed, then use separate DUAL ENVs...

blue_lu · Post by **blue_lu** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:58 pm

Zeitdehner wrote:Well, there are countless uses for a simple decaying/rising slope, the most obvious ones being modulation of a filter while the A ENV is modulating a VCA, or modulation of one of the parameters of the A ENV, or adding realism to emulations of acoustic/natural sounds by slight modulation of the pitch of an oscillator (works best on plucked/percussive sounds, with short attack), etc...
These applications take advantage of the fact that the two envelopes share the same gate.
For patches where delayed or asynchronous gating is needed, then use separate DUAL ENVs...

sorry to be unclear, I do know how and why to use envelopes, I was merely wondering how you you would use two envelopes triggered at the same time in a patch. But Milkshake's examples made it clear for me. Still it would be cool to have a switch to sync them and to separate gate inputs. or maybe I just "need" another dual env.

trotz · Post by **trotz** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:49 pm

Regarding the suggestions for a possible controller by Rob:

3 ways to control the scanning rate (speed at which the points are measured and the output CV updated).

a) speed controllable by CV from sub-audio (to create sequences/arpegios) up to max rate.

b) the scanning position is what should be set by a bipolar CV (in this way we can have all sorts of up/down/random/etc... sequences/arpeggios/wavetables).

c) a clock signal

Every "touch point" could output a gate in combination (AND, OR, XOR) to the scan signal, the output CV of the touch surfaces themselves could be optionally "halted" until the next scan cycle, as LF-VCO B does.

Not many points are needed, but at least 8 or 12.

The CVs created by the "touch points" can be summed (or combined in a more exotic fashion) but also be output individually.

Personally, I hate the surfaces without any kind of haptic response. So, just touching a metal plate does not cut it. It doesn't have to be an ivory keyboard, either.

Also, I don't think there has to be a "keyboard plus knobs" impersonation. I think more of multiple trackpads (x,y,pressure). Yeah, I know they are just metal plates, at least the make a click (not very musical, though)...

That's all I can think of for tonight!

Neovintage · Post by **Neovintage** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:24 am

Here's a quick live audio shoot. Recorded with iPhone soÃ¢â‚¬Â¦
This was for a theatral project and this was a rehearsal.
Only one OscHRM, one TriLF-VCO and one Rungler.
https://soundcloud.com/neovintage-1/hordijk-am

Leverkusen · Post by **Leverkusen** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:19 pm

Here it is...

http://soundcloud.com/neovintage-1/hordijk-am

...love the modulation oft the Trlfo/rungler. I'm really looking to forward to get my in Feb.

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Neovintage · Post by **Neovintage** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:22 pm

Thanks. I don't know why it didn't work.

This 2 modules are my favorite choice in a patch. Couls spend days only with these two.

BTW, what system did you order?

Leverkusen · Post by **Leverkusen** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:06 pm

...always remove the s from https in the soundcloud link - took me a while to get it, too.

I ordered a case with 3 triples:

OscHRM-DualENV-24dB Filter/VCA
Rungler-OscHRM-RM/Shaper-Phaser
TriLFO-Matrix6x4-NodeProcs-Midi-IEC

It was a quite long-lasting process to get the decision fixed and well-balanced but combined with a really nice and helpful exchange with Rob. The fourth empty space shall be filled with a moon 569 for combining the power of the chaotic rungler with some fine feathered sequences. Or was it the other way round.

Uhh, getting excited while thinking of it again. Normally i am not so into waiting. Good for my Karma I suppose. :bug:

Would love to hear and watch more of it here...

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MOD WIGGLER

MOD WIGGLER

Hello Hordijk System

Suggestions for the controller