Calling all Mos-Lab (especially System 8A) owners

LoveBot · Post by **LoveBot** » Tue May 10, 2011 7:39 am

Hi. I cannot seem to cross a system 8A off my wishlist; it just sounds too damn good to my ears, even with the Youtube compression. I'll likely have enough cash to get a system 8A this summer. So, a few questions...

If you could do it again, would you?

How do you get both oscillators to run through the filter without a mixer?

I would either add a CP-251 or maybe opt for a 16U cabinet with the system 8A inside it (for future expansion- that is if Seb's cool with this idea). But then I learned I could possibly put mos-lab in a dotcom cabinet... I understand the power differences between some Mos-lab modules and dotcom...but I just read this comment by Seb on the youtube page featuring the 8A:

" However, you can use Mos-Lab module in Dotcom System, with an adaptor for each module."

I thought an entirely different power supply was needed, but if this is true, why not just get a 22-space dotcom portable and throw in some Mos-lab modules with adapters? Anyone doing this? I'd probably add a few LFOs, STG's moogy mixer, etc. Seems like a logical starting point, no?

I'm sure I have more questions, but I just wanted to get the ball rolling. There are only a few threads here about Mos-lab modules.

I've been reluctant to go with a dotcom system primarily because I'm looking for a more vintage tone (yeah, sorry for the subjective adjective, but I'm looking for that drifty, warm timbre that most nu-analogs do not outright produce). Feel free to comment if you think I'm mistaken.

Feel free to chime in about other thoughts, ideas, critiques, etc.

Cheers

Spiked Lunch · Post by **Spiked Lunch** » Tue May 10, 2011 11:01 am

I don't own any mos-lab but I'd like to at some point in the not to distant future.

I think if you're in the US, it may be cheaper to use a dotcom portable cab?

I'm UK based and I'm thinking of ditching my dotcom portable cab and replacing it with 2 x 16 space mos-lab cabs towards the end of the year (for a bit more space for expansion) as shipping a cab from the US to the UK is pretty expensive and one of the factors stopping me from getting a second dotcom cab at the moment.

Mike

ynth · Post by **ynth** » Tue May 10, 2011 11:42 am

The Mos-lab demos are what first turned me on to the possibilities of modular synthesis & I share your lust for a System 8A.

I can't tell if what I'm hearing is the instrument or the player, but damn does Seb deliver some audio candy in those videos.

krv · Post by **krv** » Tue May 10, 2011 12:28 pm

Hi,
I've got two 16 Units Mos-Lab portable case with +/- 12V Mos-Lab psu and custom dotcom connectors cables that Sebastien did for me. Have to say, Sebastien is an excellent person to deal with, very competent, extremly polite and honest with terms, conditions and date of shipping ... his cases are top quality and you won't have any problem to gig with them (just build yourself a lid or buy a guitar amp cover).
I completly agree with Spiked Lunch, if you live in Europe go for Mos-Lab as dotcom cases would be much more expensive to get.
I'm very sorry I don't have any M-L module even if I'm very tempted

LoveBot · Post by **LoveBot** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:25 pm

I suppose I should get a dotcom cab because I'm in the U.S. I'm a little unclear about the power situation. Would the QSP1 + special cables from Seb take care of the different power requirements between dotcom and mos-lab modules or would I need two different power solutions? Judging from Seb's comment on the youtube vid I posted, he indicated that special connectors would allow mos-lab modules from the 8A system into a dotcom case. Just to ask for clarification, does this mean that QSP1 (plus special connectors) will take care of the different power requirements ?

A few more Qs:

-Any noticeable difference between Mos-lab EGs and dotcom's? I'm trying to cut costs and focus primarily on vco-vcf-vca combination, but if the envelopes are significantly different, I'll reconsider.

-krv- you mentioned that Seb is 'honest with terms, conditions, and date of shipping' - could you tell me more about the terms/conditions, either here or PM? It's good to know he's trusts and does his business fairly, but I'd like to know what to expect.

That's all I can think of for now. Thanks!

krv · Post by **krv** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:45 pm

If you're based in US you'd definetly go dotcom as case shipment + custom taxes etc would be vey expensive.

About the power, you'd better contact Seb directly, as dotcom psu is +/- 15V and Mos-Lab modules work with +/- 12V. Now, I know modules that works equally good with both 12V and 15V (Macbeth and Hordijk just to name two) but I'm not sure about Mos-Lab... an e-mail will solve the mistery

Terms and conditions with Mos-Lab are the easiest: you ask (let's say) for a module and he answers back with an invoice for that module (price+shipping price) and an extimated time for the module to be ready. When the module is ready you're asked to pay and he ships.
As I said I had two 16U cases with custom psu for 600Euros+90Euros for shipment, told they were ready in two month and in 60 days I had them in my studio

LoveBot · Post by **LoveBot** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:56 pm

Cool, thanks for the advice. I'll contact Seb. I didn't even think about customs

krv · Post by **krv** » Tue May 10, 2011 5:00 pm

LoveBot wrote:Cool, thanks for the advice. I'll contact Seb. I didn't even think about customs

Customs kill!
From U.S.A to Italy is a + 23% on item price+shipment price

LoveBot · Post by **LoveBot** » Tue May 10, 2011 5:07 pm

yikes, if it's anything like that from France to the U.S. I'll have to reconsider. Might have to go with Macbeth backend filter and a couple of euro modules even though I love the 5U form factor.

Any U.S. folks out there who use mos-lab... how much was customs?

krv · Post by **krv** » Tue May 10, 2011 5:17 pm

LoveBot wrote:yikes, if it's anything like that from France to the U.S. I'll have to reconsider. Might have to go with Macbeth backend filter and a couple of euro modules even though I love the 5U form factor.

Any U.S. folks out there who use mos-lab... how much was customs?

you can check this, it helps a lot:

duty calculator

oh... if you're considering Macbeth modules and love 5U Ken has the new MK1 serie ....EXCELLENT

LoveBot · Post by **LoveBot** » Tue May 10, 2011 5:38 pm

Hmmm US does not seem to be on there. I'll look around online and try to find something similar (I think we call it import taxes/tariffs here).

Macbeth sounds/looks amazing but is even more expensive.

LoveBot · Post by **LoveBot** » Tue May 10, 2011 8:15 pm

Okay, based on a bit of research of "Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (2011)" I've come to the conclusion that it's only 5% for musical instruments... which means approximately $100 for a system 8A.

Not bad at all compared to Italy.

For any U.S.-bound wiggler interested in the docs (or other interested interlocutors):
Rules of interpretation
http://www.usitc.gov/publications/docs/ ... pdf#page=3
(interesting stuff here about multi-lateral trade agreements)

And the tariff schedule for imports
http://www.usitc.gov/publications/docs/ ... 100c92.pdf

Now time to ask Seb about the power issue...

diophantine · Post by **diophantine** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:06 pm

Italian customs is really brutal! Not just where the money is concerned, but paperwork too.

I don't know exactly how customs looks shipments coming into the US, when it is USPS/UPS/FedEx/DHL. I've had so much music shipped to me over the years (including many large packages _not_ marked as "gift") and US Customs has never done anything more than open 2 packages for inspection. No fees, no nothing.

(If you're importing stuff yourself, it is a different matter... did this once (it was my only option for some label stuff) and spent the whole day at LAX's freight terminal and customs office. Nightmare! But, parcel and mail companies take care of this stuff for you.)

I'd love to hear what you find out from Seb. Some of his modules I find very tempting...

Henfield · Post by **Henfield** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:17 pm

In terms of using the Mos Lab with Dotcom stuff, you should probably ask this guy:

He has a Mos Lab 904A with a Dotcom system and also has a comparison of a Q150 with the Mos Lab filter.

The Hamburglar · Post by **The Hamburglar** » Tue May 10, 2011 10:22 pm

I absolutely adore the way they look.

LoveBot · Post by **LoveBot** » Wed May 11, 2011 12:51 am

Henfield wrote:In terms of using the Mos Lab with Dotcom stuff, you should probably ask this guy:

He has a Mos Lab 904A with a Dotcom system and also has a comparison of a Q150 with the Mos Lab filter.

Cool, thanks for that...

Google translator rendered this:

"mos-lab modules can be easily installed in dotcom and with its power supply directly connected, it only takes a small adapter the request to at mos-can be ordered lab, the only "problem" in mos-lab are the longest waiting time (in Average 3 months) compared with dotcom, otherwise the system really worth"

Well the power resolution sounds promising. But the wait time... 3 months? Damn. I'll definitely email Seb now to see what timeframe to expect; I need to make noise this summer!

Zeitdehner · Post by **Zeitdehner** » Wed May 11, 2011 3:28 am

Well, I ordered a custom system 24 from Mos Lab in januari. By custom I mean that I did a selection of modules and took no cab as I'm gonna build one myself.
One thing you ought to know is that Seb is Mos-Lab and Mos-Lab is Seb...the guy is all alone. He has to deal with Mos-Lab orders but also with his Mos-Lab Clinic for maintenance and repairs of vintage synths...not easy ! Therefore, he has to outsource PCB and faceplate manufacturing. Also the cabs are outsourced.
Seb seems to be victim of his success, as since beginning of this year I know of at least a dozen new customers that put on new orders... sales have just gone up the sky only through the promotion of Mos-Lab by users on the French speaking Analog Synthesis forum, Anafrog.
I'm still waiting for my system, but it's worth the wait. The wait time is still inferior to that of MOTM or COTK...
The Mos Lab modules really are excellent, straight forward Moog replicas with no bells&whistles...just some improvements here & there , like the Mos-Lab 921-B features the sync stage of the Moog 921, and also sports an internal amplification stage to boost the output signals from 1.3Vpp on the original to 5Vpp.
Sound wise, it is really what you would expect from that kind of modules, it is fat or phat, living, organic, powerful, rich, precise & stable !
Controls are very precise and smooth, build quality is excellent too...really lovely.
I know about the power issues and I avoid this by keeping the Mos-Lab system in a dedicated cab... later expansion, with other brands will happen in other cabs with appropriate connections and PSU.
Still, if you want to mix and match you can ask Seb to make a custom PSU, with a multi format busboard, no problem ! With this you won't need any adapter cables. You can even ask him to install +5V on the bus, if necessary.

The modules I selected are just the basics:
1 osc driver
3 VCO
1 control to osc
1 LPF
1 HPF
1 filter coupler
2 mixers
2 attenuators
1 EG
2 VCA
1 reverb

That leaves me 2U spare and I will fill that with a DIY passive multiple/format converter/routing switch to interface with my Eurorack gear for treatments, FX and modulations.

Eventually, I'll put the attenuators (these are passive) and the multi/conv/router in a separate box and replace them by a S&H, a noise/filters and a waveform processor 970 (If I find one second hand...I thought I did on Electro Music forum a couple of weeks back, but that turned out to be a fraud ... Seb only produced four of them, 2 are in the States, 1 in France, 1 in Belgium and Seb still has the prototype... So, if one owner of the 970 reads this and is willing to part with it, please drop me a PM)

I hope this clears up some of your doubts and answers some of your questions...

Cheers,

Z.

LoveBot · Post by **LoveBot** » Wed May 11, 2011 6:27 am

Thanks for your sobering perspective. I emailed Seb to get an idea of how long a small system would take to build and ship. If you ordered in January and have still not received your modules in May- I'm possibly looking at over 3 months...

We'll see what he says, but I am not optimistic. I might have to reconsider Macbeth in 3U if Mos-lab takes 4 months and Macbeth 5U release to use common plebeians is still unknown.

Cheers

krv · Post by **krv** » Wed May 11, 2011 6:47 am

LoveBot wrote:...Macbeth 5U release to use common plebeians is still unknown....

Cheers

...about this you'd better contact Ken directly, but something I know for sure: if you're going for "that sound" (phat and phurious m**g m*dular like) Macbeth MK1 modules are the very best sounding modules I've ever heard... the very, very best

LoveBot · Post by **LoveBot** » Wed May 11, 2011 7:00 am

krv wrote:
LoveBot wrote:...Macbeth 5U release to use common plebeians is still unknown....

Cheers
...about this you'd better contact Ken directly, but something I know for sure: if you're going for "that sound" (phat and phurious m**g m*dular like) Macbeth MK1 modules are the very best sounding modules I've ever heard... the very, very best

The only reason I haven't gone that route is that if I understand the pricing correctly, each module is about $700. With only about $2,000 to play with, it looks like I'd be limited to 3 modules, right? That would be 2X osc and 1 LPF. I would still need at least one EG, VCA, and a case w/power. Hopefully I'm wrong about pricing...

LoveBot · Post by **LoveBot** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:21 am

So Mos-lab order would not be ready until September.

I need to get my moogy fix by early summer to start a recording project, so it looks like I might just turn to Macbeth's 3U offerings after all. I might get a pair of Analog Systems oscillators and the backend filter, but now I'm talking 3U in the 5U forum

synthetic · Post by **synthetic** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:38 am

Another option would be to get a DotCom system now, then sell it later as the MosLab modules become available. You could even keep non-critical stuff as DotCom (envelopes, even VCA) and just get the Oscillators and Filters from MosLab to save a bit of money. Then you wouldn't have to use those silly little 1/8" cables in your modular.

krv · Post by **krv** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:44 am

...or you could mail Ken Macbeth and ask about availability and US price (distribution) for his MK1 ....

doofa beena · Post by **doofa beena** » Thu May 12, 2011 12:30 pm

I have 2 MOS LAB 921a/b oscillator banks that i added to my 5u modular consisting of DOTCOm, STG, and MegaOhm modules.

I never saw any reason to limit myself to one 5u manufacturer, (although i did start with dotcom) and ive had lots of fun building my modular with investigating new builders, modules and concepts for building. i am having alot of fun with this.

As far as the power for MOSLAB modules,
i went through the same concern,
could i power them off my +-15 dotcom qps1,
Seb informed me that the (921a/b could be easily converted to run on +-15 with a mod done by him, but the 992 could not.
so i got a small power supply with my 1st bank cuz I REALLY wanted the 992 controls to oscillator. the increase in the bill still has me to yet determine if it was worth it, i dont use it that much, but it is nice to have.

Seb is great to do business with,
his wait times are accurate, my 1st order (921a x 3 921b, 992, small power supply) was placed last june, quoted nov/dec,
order was completed in December, although i didnt receive them till january, (stuck in customs)
My 2nd order (921a x 2 921b) was placed in january, quoted april/may, received last week, 1 week after payment sent.
i have more to say but i gotta go to work,
d

bwhittington · Post by **bwhittington** » Thu May 12, 2011 3:00 pm

doofa beena wrote:Seb informed me that the (921a/b could be easily converted to run on +-15 with a mod done by him, but the 992 could not.

That surprises me since the only thing the that module seems to need to power are its LED's.

PCB layout here:
http://mos-lab.com/photos/SLAVE.jpg

I would have thought there would be an easier way to power that. Aren't most LED's powered by the 5v rail?

Since you've ordered multiple times now, I guess you must be quite pleased with the oscillator banks?

Cheers,
Brian

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MOD WIGGLER

Calling all Mos-Lab (especially System 8A) owners

Calling all Mos-Lab (especially System 8A) owners