Modcan DVDO or VCDO... it kills me

[Dob]

Hi folks!

Have been reading up this forum for some days, you seem to be my kind of folks, thought I'd say hi and drop a question...

I'm currently the proud owner of a 22 space dotcom cabinet, filled with mostly basic dotcom stuff (osc, filters, vca, including Q960 seq) and some Oakley, MoonModular and MOTM.

Now I've stubled upon Bruce's candy store and I made way (and budget) for 3 of his modules to fill up my cabinets.

I've ordered the Modcan B Digital Delay and Dual Quantizer. (I've owned the Moon Modular quantizer with 2 auxilaries but thought it was crap functionallity-wise. So I sold them a while ago. I think the Modcan one does exactly what I want and more)

Now I'm in doubt about the oscillator to go with these 2.... first I wanted the Triple VCO, but then I realized I was just being lazy, I already have 3 dotcom oscillators at my disposal. (although I tend to use them a lot as resettable VC-LFO's)

Now I'm having troubles choosing between the VCDO and the DVDO.
VCDO: I like the random noise possibilities a lot, and the AM VC. I've grown up with the Yamaha FM sound (my dad owned the Yamaha FM programs and modules for MSX and I played with it as a kid) but I've grown to love analog sounds much more. But I can't say I don't still have a knack for FM'ish sounds. Although I detest FM-trying-to-do-real-instruments with "blats" and that type of nonsense... THE uglyness.

Then the DVDO... I love the idea of that (CV-able) blend knob... 180 waves to (CV-able) choose from... I love morphing/evolving sounds as much as the next man. But I'd miss out on a lot of noise/random type sounds, won't I? Are there any random-ish noisy cycles/settings in there?
Also I think (as far as demo-hearing goes) the lower range of the DVDO does some nice slightly dusty/airy too-less-bits type of things. (which reminds me, oddly, of SP-1200 record-it-fast-then-play-it-much-slower sound, which I totally dig)... is that because the SP-1200 was 12 bits and the DVDO cycles are too?! (or am I fool for a day now)

Anyway.... Don't worry. I have 3 cats

[parasitk]

Ooh that's tough. I have both and I think I use the VCDO a touch more, but I really do love that kind of controlled FM.

When I do use the DVDO however, it always brings a smile to my face. In a system without any other source of wavetable type oscillators, it would fill the spot nicely.

The VCDO also doubles as a great quadrature LFO, and yeah can do the crazy noise thing as well.

Gah, if I had to pick only one, it might be the VCDO for me. Wait...

[dude]

firstly welcome! secondly, check out my videos, i have or have had all the oscs you may be seeking and have made videos of them. thirdly. in terms of features of an osc, i would focus on the sounds and audio rate capabilities. the vcdo can do some very cool random functions but the quad lfo sports those same functions on steroids in the best possible sense. if random is what you want, save that for a modulator or set of modulators and leave the audio to the audio. also, why limit conceptually to 3 modcan modules or 3 modules from any manufacturer? out of all the modcan oscs (i have tried them all aside from the old analog dual and the old version of the vcdo) the ones that stick for me are the 3vco, dual vdo and miniwave. the vcdo and dual vdo are both very fun and flexible but in vastly different ways. they are both very complex and take time to learn as an instrument unto themselves. the dual vdo pays off more for me. fm type sounds are fairly easy to come by in the modular realm, not that the vcdo is easily duplicated at all.

i can gladly make more videos if there is some clarity to be had from it.

[dude]

and the real answer is get both plus a quad lfo. you will not find any other module in in format that holds the functions of the quad lfo.

[AnalogAssailant]

I own both and i find that i gravitate towards the VCDO a bit more. You can certainly get pretty crazy with the DVDO, but I find the VCDO to be more 'immediate' in terms of results.

Probably just me but I spend more time tweaking and patching with the DVDO to get really elaborate evolving sounds that i just love, but the VCDO can give me a sound that i like with a subtle turn of the knob. Obviously there is a trade off there.

It sounds like you are already familiar with the FM way of doing things so if you went with the VCDO you can always snatch the DVDO later, assuming you have room left.

Good luck.

[parasitk]

fm type sounds are fairly easy to come by in the modular realm, not that the vcdo is easily duplicated at all.

The act of frequency modulation is easy in the modular realm, yes. But what the VCDO does is not, IMO.

[modularland]

they are both great modules... i find the DVDO is "too powerful" with infinite #s of waveforms .... I like the VCDO because it is a simple digital oscillator with simple functionality and a small number of the useful waveforms I need often...

one other bonus of VCDO is that it works very well as an LFO, and it has a 'random' wave that is a non repeating (and quantized!) LFO source that I use ALL the time.... basically replaces three modules (clock, noise, quantizer) in a single knob position...

[dude]

my only problem with the vcdo as a modulator is that it is not optimized as a modulator in terms of voltage levels. it doesn't hit the full peek-peek 5v. that was a problem for me. that is a very picky thing for me but may never even come up for somebody else i do not know. and when it sits next to the quad lfo, using the random source on the vcdo starts to seem somewhat wasteful for me when it can be heard.

[modularland]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm very nitpicky but interesting! I find the VCDO to be very useful as an LFO...

my only problem with the vcdo as a modulator is that it is not optimized as a modulator in terms of voltage levels. it doesn't hit the full peek-peek 5v. that was a problem for me. that is a very picky thing for me but may never even come up for somebody else i do not know. and when it sits next to the quad lfo, using the random source on the vcdo starts to seem somewhat wasteful for me when it can be heard.

[dude]

yeah it really is nitpicky i know. i asked bruce about it and he said something about how it was optimized as an audio source so the modulation capabilities are an awesome but secondary feature. and i want to clarify that i am not trying to argue the awesomeness of the vcdo with you guys, just trying to get all opinions in as i would have liked to know some of this stuff before i bought and sold mine.

[dude]

another thing that is extremely helpful for the dual vdo: the hi-rez switch. in stock configuration, the button has to be held in to keep hi-rez mode 'on'. that did not appeal to me and i asked bruce to change its behavior to be a latching switch in order to ease the interface. i am so glad i did that. now it is so much easier to find stuff. it is like having a nice bookmark in there. you can dial in the approx position of your desired wave(s) and then press the switch once and boom, you are zoomed in. there are some great series in there which are almost impossible to use musically otherwise imo.

[Dob]

thnx guys!!

Let's see...
@dude yeah I've already checked out a lot of your vids, more than once, which were really helping a lot, so thnx for sharing those. That switch seems like a good idea for the DVDO. And yeah I'm mainly in it for the audio range, but I wouldn't mind having an extra LFO with weird shapes or random-ish source.

I was thinking last night, wouldn't 180 times 180 choices get me the "choice stress" what I've come to detest from the digital realm? Having 32400 possible waves... doesn't that sometimes give you a feeling of "maybe there's one better souding for this job" so you'd keep on dialing (whilst not gaining much)?! And is is possible to get back to one of your favourite "combinations"... (I think not) ... or is the timbre more influenced by the other stuff like detune?
I've had that too-much-choice problem with digital synths with too many presets like the FS1R.
I do like restrictions to help me being creative and inventive.

Ow and yes, I'd really wish I didn't have to choose and would have sufficient budget for all of Bruces modules, times 4, but that is not the case. Choosing is a neccessity . I've got space for 3 doubles. (actually I didn't and had to take some modules out like the midi interface and ring mod)

Anyway. I'm still in doubt.

[dude]

some say too much choice on dual vdo. i do not. the whole point is sonic exploration imo. it is a grass is greener sort of thing. as for finding the same wave combination, the hi-rez button will absolutely allow you to reproduce sound combos you like but you have to really familiarize yourself with it as an instrument. if you use the osc once a week for half an hour, it will likely confound you each time. but it really pays off to dig in with that one. you won't know till you try and that goes for any of it. pick (or 4) and explore. if you like it great, if not trade it and search till you get the right combo in your synth. there will never be a clear answer and nobody else can ever give it to you. the best thing to encourage successful choice is knowing what you want which can be hard. maybe like knowing what you want out of a relationship...i keep picking the wrong girls...

[parasitk]

On the flip side if you want to do anything remotely resembling linear FM you can't with the DVDO. It only has an exponential input. Granted, the VCDO only has an exponential input as well, but it was obviously designed for phase locked linear FM internally.

In the end it comes down to how important FM sounds are to you compared to wavetable sounds (and hell, I got both!).

[thermionicjunky]

...had to take some modules out like the midi interface and ring mod...

VCDO would offer ring mod capability.

[dude]

what i meant to say was that the vcdo and dual vdo will offer many girlfreinds

[dude]

i am just putting this out there that the 3vco is my favorite right now. i keep patching it up meaning to take video and i get so absorbed with it that i can't get the video going in time. but as has been stated, finding the value you put on the powerful linear fm capabilities of the vcdo will likely answer your question.

[Dob]

Well I did order the triple VCO in the first place, because I mainly loved the ease of getting a fat beating tone or a triple tone (chord) out of it, I liked the simple concept... and because I really liked the sound demo's. I often end up using fairly simple, warm and harmonic sine-like sounds in my noodles.
Wavetable seems to be more in that area than FM... not?

But then I told Bruce to keep it on hold because I have to make up my mind first... I kind of dropped the idea of getting the 3VCO because it doesn't do anything new or very special (within the boundaries of modular land)... so it has to do something very right for you (dude) to love it so much? Is it the sound? What draws you to the 3VCO so much? Just very curious

I'm not too clear on what I want... noooo sir. But I always like something new. Sometimes just to be reinforced in liking the old stuff
Informed trial and error. That's what it is.

[dude]

its hard to explain. but it absolutely does do something new. i need to take some video as on paper it would appear that it isn't anything new. the sound is sooo good and the vc control just encourages me to get to sounds that i don't find or patch otherwise. nothing i can type will make any sense in terms of why it is my favorite. it is just the experience of using it. that being said, i still adore the miniwave and dual vdo. they feel right as a team. obviously i am not a huge fan of the linear fm tones as much as i desire wavetables and the features available in these three. i will say that i wouldn't recommend anybody get the 3vco if they weren't considering 66 control and the quad lfo..but i would encourage anybody in any system to have those before worrying about sound sources. that shows my attitudes though. i think flexible modulators are going to have a much greater effect on the whole system than any single sound source.

[Dob]

Alright. Thanks dude!

Since a new round of demo-listening and deep thought, I'm now strongly gravitating towards the VCDO.

Reasons; it brings a totally new type of audio source to the table (plus a whole breed of noise, which I use a lot in the audio domain), it has AM (I'm short on VCA's and room is already a problem), and it can be used as complex LFO, it's graspable (16 waveforms) and quite simple to understand. And of course it sounds good AND familiar.
It's actually conceptually brilliant that I'm now incorporating the digital sound I grew up with tinkering into my modular system that I've found to be my ultimate love in the world of sythesized sounds. (I didn't understand 6-op FM as a kid at all, but I did my share of editting weird parameter names to see what new weird sound would come out. And especially combining a normal sound with a very weird fx-type sound on another channel could get the chip to generate even weirder wobbly/evolving sounds... as if the 8 channels were secretly sharing operators and were al of a sudden FM-ing each other and I wasn't supposed to discover that)


Still, whilst typing all that, I'm thinking the DVDO would be very nice to have as well. 2 outputs, lots of waveforms to choose from, very nice sound. For a second the thought crossed my mind to ditch the Digital Delay and just have 2 new oscs... but than I realized that controlling FX (in the past with sequencing midi cc data) is totally my kind of game too.
And of course that 3VCO... would be great for a lot of polyphonic-y and large sounds. But hey, if I set the digi delay and quantizer right and introduce some subtle CV-ing, I'll have my slice of large and polyphonic-y sounds.

I should totally consider myself lucky, now filling up my second cabinet with 3 new Modcan beauties. I will have my share of joy and excitement with any of these oscillators. Let's keep that in mind.
And I'm in a very luxurious position here; choosing between 3 half-a-grand oscillators!!! WWHOOAA!

Some day I'll have more osc's. And a freq. shifter. And CV recorders. And a Quad LFO. My journey will not end here...