Setup questions - midi/master clock

BKN7000 · Post by **BKN7000** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:42 pm

Hello all

I'm transitioning to a new setup with a modular cab and trying to figure out some stuff... mainly for post-punk/pop type of music (one man band kind of thing).

I have a 22 space Dotcom cab on the way (3 oscillators) so it will probably only cover 1 or 2 musical parts at the most.
I will most likely be using an additional multi-timbral VA or MS-20 + 1 sequencer/drum machine (Command Station) to give me enough parts to do complete songs in real time.

I was thinking that the Command station should handle the master clock and the modular should be a slave, but I was also considering getting a Q960. So if I were to get it, is it a waste of time to figure out if the modular can handle the master clock instead? (CV->MIDI?)

Anyone have any thoughts or recommendations? Diagram below to hopefully clarify.

giorgio · Post by **giorgio** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:50 pm

do yourself a favor and keep the e-mu as the master

bwhittington · Post by **bwhittington** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:13 pm

I was interested in using an analog sequencer as my master clock when I first got my modular, too. It is possible that the Innerclock Synclock would do the trick for you, but the builder never followed through with a promised video demo of this application in action, so I'm not sure about that.

It would be super cool to be able to sync midi to a changing analog clock, but it seems to be a bit of a trick in the real world, so I'd echo Giorgio's advice. Best to keep it simple, particularly if playing live is your goal.

Cheers,
Brian

fac · Post by **fac** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:22 pm

I've used an Emu Command Station as a master clock (with Nord G2, Korg ER-1, and FR Mobius as slaves) and it worked pretty well.

From what I understand, your dotcom does not feature a sequencer, although you might want to add one later, so you probably will be using MIDI to sequence the dotcom. In that case, I'd suggest using a Grove Audio MIDI interface as it will provide multiple channels of pitch CV+Gate plus MIDI clock for a future analog sequencer. See here:

http://www.groveaudio.com/eminstruments/gms742.aspx

Routing MIDI tracks from the Command Station to your dotcom should be pretty hassle-free since no program change messages are required. The Emu can take care of all drum tasks, with the dotcom easily doing two synth tracks and a VA doing the rest.

kindredlost · Post by **kindredlost** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:24 pm

Agree with the above advice.

A Q960 or any analogue step sequencer is a beautiful tool for pretty exotic stand-alone things or as a giant overkill envelope/LFO but the setup you are already familiar with is gonna be much easier to use with the style of music you wish to generate.

What is the general idea vehind the modular? Another purely analogue voice like a minimoog or a sound source for various sonic experiments? It is good for both but the sequencer question baffled me a bit.

BKN7000 · Post by **BKN7000** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:24 pm

Cool, thanks guys. If I got the Q960, that doesn't change anything does it? I can just use the Cmd Station to send periodic triggers if I want the Q960 to actually generate complete bars of melody right?

If that's the case, is there something I need to know about sync'ing the Q960? Do I need to send frequent triggers from the Command Station (1/4?) to keep the 960 in sync? For example, if the Cmd Station is running at 114 BPM, how do I make sure the Q960 is running at 114 also? Sorry for the n00b questions.

kindredlost wrote: What is the general idea vehind the modular? Another purely analogue voice like a minimoog or a sound source for various sonic experiments? It is good for both but the sequencer question baffled me a bit.

The general idea is just to explore different sound design workflow. I think I get trapped in working the same way all the time with the Supernova that I use for most of the "heavy lifting". So I'm hoping that fuzzier rules with patching on the modular might just reboot my brain somehow. That and the sound quality of course.

The Q960-as-master sequencing idea was a biproduct of the sound design workflow idea. Normally I work by hand on the keyboard to compose grooves, or grid programming on the Command Station directly, so if I switch up and develop grooves on a Q960 instead, I thought it would be better off if the thing that produces the groove drives the clock for the entire song. Does that make sense? But obviously if it's too much of a pain in the ass, I won't do it.

giorgio · Post by **giorgio** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:42 pm

if you can trigger the 960 from the EMU, i'd just send a trigger to it every time you want to advance to the next stage, and forget the internal clock. i think the 960 calls it "shift input"

drewtoothpaste · Post by **drewtoothpaste** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:31 pm

get a DAW

Just me · Post by **Just me** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:05 pm

drewtoothpaste wrote:get a DAW

That would suck for live performance.
Just some guy and a laptop on stage.

bwhittington · Post by **bwhittington** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:35 pm

You could use audio triggers and convert them to trigger pulses with a Q118, or you could get trigger pulses from midi data sent to a Q104. Or you could use the midi clock output on a Grove midi interface, like fac suggests.

Cheers,
Brian

giorgio · Post by **giorgio** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:43 pm

dunno about the capabilities of the EMU, but I just load a special trigger sample into my MPC1000, route it to its own output, and make sure the volume is max at every level, and it triggers everything I've tried it with

BKN7000 · Post by **BKN7000** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:45 pm

Thanks guys. I also stumbled across the Moon 552 voltage to midi converter which looks pretty interesting...

http://www.noisebug.net/site/effects/index.cfm?ID=161

although I'm not quite sure yet since it seems very much out of the norm to have CV control MIDI. Feels a little risky. Hm...

bwhittington · Post by **bwhittington** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:12 pm

Just to clarify, cv to midi clock is not among the long list of features the Moon 552 offers. A little stroll through these threads to learn about a couple of quirks users have reported might be advised:

viewtopic.php?t=25463
viewtopic.php?t=11595

And here is a good thread on this general topic that mentions a couple options I wasn't familiar with (but you'd still be more stable going the other way):

viewtopic.php?t=21621

Cheers,
Brian

BKN7000 · Post by **BKN7000** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:12 am

Thanks Brian. And yikes. I guess I won't be trying that 552 any time soon.

Back to the E-mu solution....

JohnLRice · Post by **JohnLRice** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:42 am

Yes, the 552 is a great module but doesn't magically create MIDI clock out of analog clock!

But . . .the 553 Midi to Clock module is GREAT too and you will be glad you got one! You can use it to sync up your analog sequencers to a midi one.
http://www.lunar-experience.com/DOWN/553.pdf

Besides providing a fixed clock out and variable clock out, it has the very important start and stop gate/trigger outs so when you start your midi sequencer, if you have the start out of the 553 connected to the step 1 in of your 960 sequencer, it will reset the 960 so that it is in sync with the midi sequencer etc.

Noise Bug has them for $205 and they are great folks to deal with!

http://www.noisebug.net/site/effects/index.cfm?ID=162

Here's a couple tests I did using the 553:

[video][/video]

[video][/video]

spinach_pizza · Post by **spinach_pizza** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:20 am

If I was playing pop music live, I would rely on a midi device if only for the ability to store several patterns at specified tempos.

doctorvague · Post by **doctorvague** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:32 am

giorgio wrote:dunno about the capabilities of the EMU, but I just load a special trigger sample into my MPC1000, route it to its own output, and make sure the volume is max at every level, and it triggers everything I've tried it with

I like doing it this way (except it comes from my DAW and not a standalone device). The idea is to use AUDIO outs rather than MIDI for sync. Timing is rock solid and is accurate to to your audio sample rate. Use a drum out routed to the 960 shift input when you want to slave the 960. Then you can send patterns, on beats, off beats, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 etc just by using the drum machine functions and you can even change on the fly or program tempo changes etc if you want. I route multiple trigger streams to the modular and then select them at the modular on the fly with a hardware switch.

Here are some 5ms audio files I created for that purpose:
http://idisk.mac.com/doctorvague/Public ... Pulses.zip
Load them in like any other sample and play back at full volume as giorgio said.

If you're just playing the modular (not really sync'ing) then MIDI is you're best bet I think.

EDIT: having trouble with some of my posts sticking lately...

doctorvague · Post by **doctorvague** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:32 am

EDIT: double post
WTF?

Bryan B · Post by **Bryan B** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:45 am

There are Midi to Gate converters that work great. I use a bunch of Highly Liquid kits to do triggers, gates and even open and close relays (for s-trig, signal routing or chopping, etc.). The kits are usually $45-60 and you wire it up however you need.

You could use either gear or a DAW for this kind of approach. I have triggered the shift input on my Q960 as well as actually written patterns of triggers for each column. This way you can design different play modes, like reverse step/pendelum and whatever else you design with midi notes.

I find triggering better than midi clocks always. I also have created a Din Sync clock from Silent Way through my MOTU 1224 headphone Output. That is the only clock I will use form my DAW.

BKN7000 · Post by **BKN7000** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:29 am

Thanks JohnLRice, doctorvague, BryanB. Great options. I will probably just explore various options for slaving the modular instead of the other way around.

I'm not really into DAWs so I think I might just try either MIDI or audio out from the Command Station. Good thing is that the Command Station has a couple of routing options and I think I might be able to send out audio trigger separately from the drum sounds.

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Setup questions - midi/master clock

Setup questions - midi/master clock