Idea for an MU based Modular System - Feedback welcomed :-)

[cger]

Hello,
I'm very new to this board. Have been reading a lot for past few weeks and I'm very impressed, awesome forum.

I'm toying with an idea of building a custom, smaller modular system using dot_com portable 22 case as my base. This would be my first modular ever.

I'm not new to analog synths. I have owned probably 15 different models throughout the years, many of them smaller mono synths. Just few of the top of my had that I had are Crumar Spirit, Roland System 100 (101 synth only), Moog Prodigy, Pro-One, SH-101, Poly Six, Moog Source, Roland JX-10, Juno 106, Crumar Bit 99, Roland SVC-350 Vocoder and few others.

Currently I only have Moog Prodigy and Pro-One that I'm keeping.

So my idea is a system with several filters clones.

1. Mega Ohm CDs VCF/A Buchla Filter - I like sound demos on their site a lot, so this filter made the cut.

2. STG Post Lawsuit ARP 4072 - I'm hoping this one would be close to ARP 2006 and Oddysey or at least to Modcan 4075 B series and that it can achieve the self-oscillation you can hear in demos on Modcan website. Especially what you hear in Self-oscillation2.mp3

I'd hope some can confirm that.

3. Oakley MU-VC SVF - SEM filter - Chose this one cause I really like the SEM sound. As a matter of fact I heard some demos of Analogue Solutions Telemark clone that I really, really liked. So again my hope is that Oakley filter will be in that range.

4. Oakley MU Diode Super Ladder Filter - Just because it's 1U Moog clone. - I may reconsider this filter but for now it's my choice. I'm not really after Moog sound in that particular modular setup.

I would love to hear your opinions about the filters, knowing the type of sound I described that I like.

Another thing I would like to hear is opinions about ADSR's. I cannot get enough of Pro-One and how fast and snappy they are. I would like to somehow match that in my modular. For now I chose Oakley MU-Dual VC ADSR, from what I read they are supposed to be super fast, 0.75ms attack. But I would like to hear from you about that as well. Is there any other option I should be looking at that can match Pro-One's envelopes?

As far as the rest of the system, please take a look at attached image I drew up quickly… well not quickly, it took me a long time to choose the components. It shows all the modules and where I would potentially place them.

I started with Dot-Com 22 portable system and basically ended up stripping it down and replacing parts.

So in a nutshell I have this:

2 x VCO
1 x VCF - ARP
1 x VCF - Buchla w/ 1 VCA
1 x VCF - SEM
1 x VCF - Moog
2 x ADSR w/ 1 VCA
2 x VCA
2 x LFO
1 x S&H
1 x Ring Mod
1 x Noise
1x Attenuators
1 x Multiple
1x 5 channel Mixer
1x 4 channel Mixer

I'm not planning to buy it all at once.
I'm thinking of starting slow, maybe spend 6-9 months from start to completion. Mainly so it's more fun for me to slowly build it, experiment with the modules. I'm thinking of getting the case and just few modules and then add one every month or every 2 months.

I'm also getting Analogue Solutions Oberkorn MK3 to be my Step Sequencer and that I can also use it to CV into filters, envelopes etc. But I will also use it straight on with a MIDI controller. I'll record everything to a DAW running on MAC.

Forgot to mention what type of sounds/music I like. Kraftwerk, 70's Human League, Komputer, very early Front 242, early 81 Depeche etc.
I'm not really looking to recreate that old sound and I have no intention to buy bunch of old analog synths, but it's the sound I like.
I also really like this type of sequenced stuff this sound is from Telemark mainly but I want my modular to be able to do that as well since I really like that type of sounds, that includes filtered bass sounds, thin sounds in the background; the full deal, hence the Oakley MU-VC SVF - SEM filter.

In any case, thanks for reading my long post.

I would like to hear your opinions. Also Is there anything off with the selection I chose. Would I need more multiples, fewer/more VCA's, do I really need an attenuator? I have to different mixers. These are the things I'm not fully sure about since I never owned a modular system.
I tried to make it so I get quite vast range of sounds out of it.

Thanks a lot.

[bwhittington]

That looks like a pretty well thought out plan to me. You might consider swapping the Q108's for an STG 3x VCA and Q109 for increased functionality within one case. Or maybe a Q117 instead of the Q109, so you can interface with your existing synths.

The four filters are a luxury since you probably aren't going to patch them all very often. Filter selection seems to be a focus of your interest, but I wouldn't be surprised if you found something you'd rather have in place of one of them as you grow your system.

Cheers,
Brian

[Bryan B]

I went the many different filters direction with my modular and couldn't be happier with the filters in 5U. I don't patch them all up together, but rather use them for their overall timbre and individual strengths. I pick one and stick to it for each patch.

I don't think you will need both mixers unless you want a CV signal mixer as well as an audio mixer.

[Dave Peck]

Based on how you described yoru goal, this looks like a pretty good way to do it. Lots of filter options and a good balance of the other stuff.

I might suggest some alternatives for the VCAs and ring mod. Rather than taking up three panel spaces for those needs, you could replace both VCAs with a STG triple VCA.
Or replace one or both VCAs and the ring mod with a MOTM 190, which has two VCAs in a single panel and one of the VCAs has a switch that turns it into a ring mod. Although the panel spacing is a little different and you'll need a different power connector.
Or replace one of the VCAs with a Dotcom panner/crossfader, which would give you some new features, but it can still be used as a VCA (by simply using one input and one output) and it can also act as a two channel mixer, or an extra attenuator.

[danox574]

I think using a spot for the Dotcom Q104 MIDI is probably not that useful. The Q104 retriggers on every keypress and the common way to work around it is to use a slew limiter to stop the pulse back to zero volts. I might consider a non-module solution to this like the Kenton.

I like the S.com Q125 signal processor, giving you attenuation with some additional functionality, but not at the density of the STG attenuator -- I assume you looked at it?

If you like hacking, some modules (like the Q116) have a lot of unused panel space, you could even hack some additional functions into that unused panel space with a drill and some kits.

[Just me]

Don't overlook the Mankato filter! I sold a QLPG and replaced it with the Mank. It is my filter of choice right now. I'm way happier with it than the Zeroscillators! That's saying something there!

[dude]

plan to snag a bigger case and twice as many cables as you think at first.
that being said, i find modulation and vc control to be my primary goal/fpcus in using modular synthesizers. that means vca's and lfo's serve a primary role and are therefore more important to include (than filters/vco's fx etc.) as many as possible in order to afford actually controlling all these things that can be controlled. if patching up monosynth type patches is the goal than honestly it is just much easier to use monosynths. i find trying to emulate anything can end up in fun experiments but can lead away from actually grokking the heart of the modular and its capabilities as an instrument unto itself. this all might sound like nonsense. and it isn't really pointed at the op as i know nothing about him or his setup/patching desires. just babbling in response to what i read and see in the module plan.

most of all have fun! if something excites you, maybe go for it. the beauty and curse is that you can always update/buy/sell/trade.

welcome

[dude]

yeah mank is way too cool. arp filter sounds fantastic.

[darwingrosse]

A couple of thoughts:

- I agree about the Q104; you'd be better off spending the money on a more capable interface. Also, that would free a space.

- Think about either getting one (at least) Q141 Oscillator Aid, or look into Bryan's Triple Soft Sync module. It really helps you get a lot of timbral change from your oscillator.

- I also agree with getting the STG Signal Amplifiers. I've got one in my gigging rig; it is not only super-useful, but it can be used as a nice overdrive as well.

- It looks like you are putting this in a dotcom portable case, right? What I've done to free up a space is to cut a square hole in the back of the case and mount the power there. I don't need to see power when I'm gigging, and I can always use another spot up front.

- It is really hard to imagine that setup with only two oscillators. Just sayin'.

- I also can't imagine not having a slew limiter. This, in conjunction with the S&H, makes for some really great CV manipulation.

Just some thoughts. Sounds like fun though - enjoy!

[Stereotactixxx]

From one beginner to another, so take it for what it is:
I'm sure you will end up with a great system, however...

1. The Oakley dual VC-ADSR i think you are referring to is actually not dual at all. Oakley/krisp1 only produces single ones.

2. The Oakley Diode Superladder is not designed to be a Moog clone. The Transistor Superladder is much closer to Moog in design, and supposedly also in sound. I have never heard it in person though, and at the moment no ready made MU-TSLs exist.

Good luck with your new synth!

[dude]

the diode superladder is definitely not a moog clone. it does sound amazing though!

[cger]

Wow, thank you for all the responses. This is really great!!!!

That definitely gives me more to think about, and based on your responses already I will make some adjustments to my configuration. I'll revise my simple illustration sometime this weekend.

Thank You so much for your feedback, this really helps me a lot.

Please keep them coming.

Thank You!!!

[Christopher W.]

That's a really goot starter system, particularly for the music you're into. The LFOTwo, STG Mixer and CdS LPG are all brilliant modules with great musical applications. But as others have noted, ditch the Q104 and get a Kenton external unit instead. That has the advantage of:

- single or multi triggering
- choice of note priorities
- a built in LFO
- frees up another space

I would also possibly delete one of the two filters and use it with the other space freed up by the deletion of the Q104 to put a third VCO in there.

[pugix]

Two Oakley ADSR/VCA's is a good choice, but I think you need more envelope generators. What about instead of the two Q108 VCA's, one STG triple Signal Amplifiers and another envelope generator of some kind. That's about all I can add to what's already been said. I second the idea to plan now for more cabinet space.

One more thing. Why have a power switch taking up a front panel slot? Must be some way to put it on the back.

[cger]

Thank you so much for your advice.
This is definitely harder then I thought. After reading all responses carefully. This is where I am at now.
I figure maybe it's better to just keep adding pieces month after month or so then worry about how to fully fill the portable dotcom case.
I guess this would make for a pretty nice small system.
I'm trying to keep as many dotcom parts as possible so the price does not get out of control as far as "bread & butter" components.
Then I thought, I may just add small modcan B case/system later on.
Please see the attached image.

Thanks!!!

[bwhittington]

This kind of swings another way. If your goal is to limit yourself to one case only, I'd reconsider the single-space Oakley looping ADSR's instead of the Q109's for the sake of density. I'd also consider a soft sync mod instead of the Q141. If you are open to adding another case at some point, I'd worry less about any of these decisions.

Probably the smartest thing about this layout is the two empty spaces, which leave a bit of room to grow. Since you are planning to buy this incrementally, don't worry too much about the specifics of your plan. Your patching style will determine whether a second mixer is more important to you than glide, a Q141, more eg's, or whatever. There are some common thoughts in the advice above, and also some personal preferences. There's not just one right path, which is why we don't all have Minimoogs instead.

Cheers,
Brian[/i]

[relaxing]

I would skip the dotcom portable case and go with rack rails for 2 reasons.

1. Without a hard cover, it's not all that portable.

2. It's not deep enough to hold a number of 3rd party modules. Looking at what you've got now, the Oakley modules look like they'll fit as long as you keep them away from the power supply. STG and MegaOhm don't appear to post dimensions so you'd better check first...

[bwhittington]

None of the modules he's looking at are too deep for a Dotcom portable.

[Bryan B]

I agree with doing a Soft Sync mod instead of getting the Q141. If you need help with which wire goes to what part of the connector, just ask. Otherwise, the dotcom pots and jacks are all wired identical, so it is easy to figure out.

[dslocum]

Thank you so much for your advice.
This is definitely harder then I thought. After reading all responses carefully. This is where I am at now.
I figure maybe it's better to just keep adding pieces month after month or so then worry about how to fully fill the portable dotcom case.
I guess this would make for a pretty nice small system.
I'm trying to keep as many dotcom parts as possible so the price does not get out of control as far as "bread & butter" components.
Then I thought, I may just add small modcan B case/system later on.
Please see the attached image.

Thanks!!!

I can't speak for you musical tastes, as mine are quite different, but I'd say you might be a bit shy on sound and modulation sources (osc). Like your taste in filters. Plus - you can never have enough envelopes or VCAs, IMHO.

Since you seem to be leaning toward portable cabs, definately plan on a second cabinet and modules that "pack more punch per MU".

[cger]

Thanks Guys,
Hi Doug, As far my musical taste it's in the range of early Front 242, think tracks like Operating tracks or Kampfbereit - or early Kraftwerk etc. So a lot of System 100m in case those early Front 242 stuff.
And now... I just listened to the demos of your Steiner Filter, like that a lot!!! Looks like I have to add it to my list :-)

I want to avoid having to buy bunch of overpriced mono synths I have no space for anyway and rather have a selection of filters in a modular system. That's why I included 3 filters in my plan.

I just saw Arp Oddyssey sell for way over $3K, someone asking $10K for ARP 2600. And people asking really high prices for beat up Systems 100m. That's just insane and really does not make sense to me when I can built a nice modular with several filters that can later be expanded.

I will be using Analogue Solutions Oberkorn MK3 with it. I also have Pro-One and Prodigy to cover sounds i like.

I know I will get sucked in though and eventually get a second case.


So Single-space Oakley looping ADSR's instead of the Q109's looks like a better choice. Also a Soft Sync instead of Q141 makes sense.

Bryan B, As far as the filters, yes I'm planning to use them separately, basically the idea is "few synths in one box"

bwhittington - in regards to your comment, yes since I'm planning to build it slowly I think I will discover what I like doing and may change my plan a bit as I go. I think that's the cool think about building a system slowly. Plus it's more fun to get pieces month by month or so.

Thanks a lot for your help!!

[bwhittington]

For info on soft sync mod options, check this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=6918

There are a couple of ways to do it, and Megaohm posted a nice diagram about it.

Cheers,
Brian

[Henfield]

If you wanted to free up cabinet space for more modules, you could replace 4 modules (slew,S&H,Noise, Attenuators) with a Moogerfooger CP251, which would also be less exensive than purchasing the 4 modules and give you a CV mixer to use with your filters.

[frijitz]

You might have a quick look at the Threeler VCF. It's one of the modules Bridechamber does in dotcom format.

http://www.bridechamber.com/F_Threeler.html

Scott doesn't have my demos up yet, but they are available on my website:

http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/projects/Threeler.htm

Also check the e-mus forum for more demos and to see what users are saying:

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/view ... &start=175



Ian

[Just me]

If you wanted to free up cabinet space for more modules, you could replace 4 modules (slew,S&H,Noise, Attenuators) with a Moogerfooger CP251, which would also be less exensive than purchasing the 4 modules and give you a CV mixer to use with your filters.

More like 7 modules:
Multiple
Noise
S/H
VCLFO
Slew Limiter
Attenuvertors X2
CV Mixer with offset