Modcan 62a Dual VDO or E350 Morphing Terrarium?

jonkull · Post by **jonkull** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:08 pm

I'd like to get a wavetable oscillator I can use with my Serge. I had an E350 when I had a euro system and enjoyed it. I've never used Modcan but people say it's a good pairing with Serge. I'm leaning toward the E350 because it's familiar but there's something interesting about the 62a. I would mainly be using these in a slow evolving drone context so smooth morphing and interesting waveforms are important.

Would someone who has experience with both (or just the Modcan) care to share their thoughts?

Pozor · Post by **Pozor** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:49 pm

Am wondering too. The 350 seems to offer more options but I would love to hear a 1:1 comparison

Entrainer · Post by **Entrainer** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:57 pm

The 62a doesn't have the same type of interpolation
as the e350. It can interpolate between the two
oscillators smoothly, but not up and down the banks
of the individual oscillators.

One interesting thing about the DVDO is the ability
to tune the oscillators separately and then interpolate.
New textures.

And the DVDO doesn't alias on the top end, making
a cleaner/smoother oscillator in the higher frequency
realms... but really if you are FMing, even the midrange.

You can hear is this demo what I'm talking about:
viewtopic.php?t=19574&highlight=dvdo

You know the benefits of the e350, interpolation...
bank switches, XY/Z outs. Plus I think there is more
variety with the bank C being glitchy/noisy at audio rates.
I like that bank...

Modcan A seems a bit easier to mix/match.

BlueOctopus · Post by **BlueOctopus** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:08 pm

Everything Entrainer said is right on.

I've been into Modcan for several years now and I only recently tried a DVDO. I was kicking myself hard for not knowing that it should have been one of my very first purchases; SO many sounds are possible with that thing...

dude · Post by **dude** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:01 pm

i have spent tons of time with both. the modcan wins for me but they both have implementation idiosyncrasies. entrainer summed it up pretty well. i found the e350 unusable for clean high end. the obvious benefit of bananas is a no-brainer. i dislike the three way pitch switch on the e350 as none of the ranges reach exactly where i wanted to go, but the e350 can be used as very sweet lfo whereas the dual vdo cannot do deep subaudio. it is all audio rate. that is unlike other modcan oscs, which all seem to have a low or lfo switch. the second osc on the dual vdo is where to timbral money is to me in that you can detune manually or with cv to make extremely dense sound or even fake a lil polyphony. the built in semitone quantizer is nice as well. in the end i think the e350 is more immediately musically useful (plus great lfo duties) but after spending a lot of time learning how to use the dual vdo, i just think it works a lot better and smoother for my purposes. the e350 detunes upon having modulation signal in excess of what it expects as well. not good. if you consider getting one form bruce, you might think about getting the resolution switch to be latching as opposed to momentary. it seems more intuitive to me that way.

BananaPlug · Post by **BananaPlug** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:06 pm

They're pretty different. I basically agree with the above. Consider that with the 62 you can setup to interpolate between ANY two waves. Detune is real useful and the quantize and octave switches are good bonus features. The 350's bonus is the phase mode which is really pretty cool. I don't like the lo-mid-high range switching much.

If I had to pick one I'd go with the 62 because in addition to the complex waveforms you expect from a digital interpolating wavetable oscillator it can also sound like two classic analog oscilators beating just the way you want and tracking over a wide range.

I put the 350 (BugBrand edition) in my mostly Blacet and BugBrand portable rig where it sounds different from everything else. Often gets used as a fancy LFO.

dude · Post by **dude** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:08 pm

also for smooth morphing sounds coming form one module there are other options. the vcdo can do some insane smooth morphing/melodic fm and frankly i am using a miniwave with the vector 2 rom which is smoothly morphed in both directions and i love it to death. just saying there may be other less apparent options which might hit the nail on the head for your exact purpose and even get you some other functions you might grow to love. let me know if you want video! i can't do the vcdo as i sold that but i can do dual vdo and or miniwave if you like at some point here.

jonkull · Post by **jonkull** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:32 pm

dude wrote: let me know if you want video! i can't do the vcdo as i sold that but i can do dual vdo and or miniwave if you like at some point here.

Sure. I'd love to see/hear the dual vdo and miniwave. I had thought about the miniwave as well.

thermionicjunky · Post by **thermionicjunky** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:24 pm

dude wrote:also for smooth morphing sounds coming form one module there are other options. the vcdo can do some insane smooth morphing/melodic fm and frankly i am using a miniwave with the vector 2 rom which is smoothly morphed in both directions and i love it to death. just saying there may be other less apparent options which might hit the nail on the head for your exact purpose and even get you some other functions you might grow to love. let me know if you want video! i can't do the vcdo as i sold that but i can do dual vdo and or miniwave if you like at some point here.

But the VCDO doesn't actually interpolate between the 16 waveforms. The only timbre morphing is from the modulation index.

dude · Post by **dude** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:46 pm

sure sure, but the index can have a very distinct, wide and smooth change of sound. i know it isn't what he was asking about but it is related to me. i am probably just complicating matters by even bringing it up but i guess variety in this case to compliment the serge offerings might feel nice.

as for video, i will do some stuff at the next opportunity. is there any direction which might help give you a clearer indication? or maybe stuff which wouldn't help that i can avoid. it occurs to me that what might be clear examples of their powers might leave you scratching your head and vice versa

dude · Post by **dude** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:50 am

i went searching for a post i wrote in depth about the dual vdo a while back. it is long winded but might help to give a more precise understanding of features/implementation:

dude wrote:i have never used a prophet of any type. and i should say anything is possibly. the thing about the dvdo is that you can have it appear to be sort of morphing through endless 'quadrants'. every time you blend to one side completely, you get the option to change the opposite waves bank without hearing the normal step/glitch of the wave change. then you can interpolate between the to waves with amazing resolution therefore producing huge amounts of yet more waves. every time you change a wave, you are essentially changing quadrants. of course this is all completely built into the module so no joysticks or other modules are necessary

two possible downfalls i could see are:
1. when you scroll through waves, being that 180 are available, it is difficult to find repeatable waves/harmonic content. you can absolutely become familiar with the way the waves are laid out but it is still full of what i see as happy accidents where some people might view 'inaccuracy'.
i like that this is the case, it like swimming in foreign waters. you don't really know what you might find. it excites me obviously but as i said, it is hard to reproduce exact 'sounds' or 'patches' (and i am talking fine tuning here not real obvious stuff).
there is also a button on the dual vdo which enables the wave knob resolution to move from around 180 waves to only moving over a territory of 16 waves! so that is built in and can help once you find a section that is useful. it takes a second but it can be a sort of learned 'playing' technique. the module can absolutely be approached as an instrument and that is why i love it. normally bruce sends the modules with the wave resolution button as a momentary switch meaning you have to hold it in to keep the 16 vs the normal 180 waves available. i had him change my module from a momentary to a latching switch which seems much more helpful to me. basically, once you arrive at the right point, then you can mark it (press the button) and now be free to explore the frequently amazing harmonic content.

2. and sorry about the bookish nature of this post, i had no intention of having such a longwinded speech about this...the other possible downfall is that you have to have the waveblend knob or cv(joysticks/fixed voltages are indeed so much fun with this input) completely to one side in order to change the opposite side without any perception of a stepped change.
so in this case, having experience about where you are headed with your exploration is quite helpful as you have to sort of 'commit' to the chosen wave in order to travel fully though its available blend in order to be 'panned' to the now opposite side in order to then change the previous wave position of the opposite side without the perceived step/glitch sound (actively and smoothly changing 'quadrants').
it is more than possible to do this. in fact i make it sound difficult when you can see in the video, while boring, it this exactly what i am trying to illustrate.

i honestly found the dvdo quite confusing in terms of design implementation when i first received it from bruce. but like many instruments, once i actually devoted time to familiarize and build performance/patching technique, it became clear how awesome this thing really was. there are a number of other features which are also included on this beast which seal the deal for me but they are not completely related to the topic so i will leave them out.

making a long story very short:
i don't think you would really need two.

jonkull · Post by **jonkull** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:43 pm

dude wrote:is there any direction which might help give you a clearer indication?

Not really...just some smooth, slow morphing. Nothing 'percussive'. I contacted Bruce Duncan earlier. I may just buy the Miniwave and Dual VDO. I just have to figure out power and some kind of enclosure to house two modules. I don't want a full rack or room for future expansion. Serge is my priority there.

dude · Post by **dude** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:15 pm

cool. as for casing, a number folks could probably find you a way to distribute power and didn't goiks make that amazing two module wiard case? the smallest 15v supplies i am used to seeing are the 800ma ones which would of course be plenty+overkill, is there anything at all else missing form the dream serge rig? even a module or two added would likely make a small case a bit more logical or easy to lay out somehow.

just some ideas. i wouldn't be able to live w/o wavetables either. so much sound potential and synthesis fun. i know member bricks loves his miniwave to play with his serge slopes.

as for video, amongst all the chaos, my damn family is in town for the week so it may take a week or so unless i can get a late night session. i will do my best to make that happen as i REALLY want to patch.

BananaPlug · Post by **BananaPlug** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:25 pm

The Blacet power supply is a good choice. 550ma I think and good quality.
With a little effort you can fit that Modcan stuff in all kinds of odd places!

dude · Post by **dude** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:26 pm

oh yeah! forgot about blacet. nice. i bet a cv recorder and 66 control would do wonders in a serge too

dude · Post by **dude** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:26 am

well i just had a great fucking video of the dual vdo and my fucking audio interface seems to have somehow taken a shit. no idea what is going wrong but no sound recording. if i can figure a way to get my hotel shit setup to work i will snag video but in the meantime somebody else is much more likely to have an easier time (whether they feel like taking video for you is another story altogether). argh. sorry.

JohnLRice · Post by **JohnLRice** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:39 am

dude wrote:well i just had a great fucking video of the dual vdo and my fucking audio interface seems to have somehow taken a shit. no idea what is going wrong but no sound recording. if i can figure a way to get my hotel shit setup to work i will snag video but in the meantime somebody else is much more likely to have an easier time (whether they feel like taking video for you is another story altogether). argh. sorry.

Thanks for trying!

dude · Post by **dude** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:47 am

had take two and split audio and video and i think my interface is just dying. digital artifacts all over the place. but it only happens when i record. but i can tell the artifacts are embedded in the recording. anyway, in the right hands, 62b is amazing and hugely flexible. so wonderful and the miniwave of course can do shit tons of functions as well as be a dirty and sexy 8 bit osc/processor. the a series miniwave doesn't have the built in saw like the b series does though (not that you have a lack of saws i imagine).

rezzn8r · Post by **rezzn8r** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:37 am

BananaPlug wrote:The Blacet power supply is a good choice. 550ma I think and good quality.
With a little effort you can fit that Modcan stuff in all kinds of odd places!

noice!

dude · Post by **dude** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:37 am

ok i have another plan of attack on on my ghetto+hotel moviemaking. i will try to give it a shot tonight. need to find cables which are likely in storage though.

dude · Post by **dude** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:27 pm

i got the supplies i think i need to make more video happen but i also found an old video which might help:
[video][/video]

dude · Post by **dude** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:58 am

well the plan of attack worked! i can shoot vids in the hotel room. i have a lot of work to do till i get comfortable with the way it is set up. these are all just straight single patch cable osc>recorder so what you are hearing is just naked modcan vco power. the sounds aren't presented in a musical way but i tried to cover a little territory through twiddling to get an idea of a bit of the timbral range. i shot some of the 3vco as well just because i have been wanting to do that since i got it.

[video][/video]

[video][/video]

[video][/video]

dude · Post by **dude** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:02 am

and i have to say, i just put the 3vco square>super delay>dual frequency shifter> digi delay. too much wonder filled my ears. it made me nauseous with synthesizing power in a most welcome way. i know none of this has anything to do with the topic but if i had to only have one osc at this point it would be the 3vco.

carry on.

JohnLRice · Post by **JohnLRice** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:56 am

Thanks for all the demos, Liam!

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:06 am

MOD WIGGLER

MOD WIGGLER

Modcan 62a Dual VDO or E350 Morphing Terrarium?

Modcan 62a Dual VDO or E350 Morphing Terrarium?