I've been doing a lot of reading this weekend and today I went out to home depot and made a DIY rack capable of fitting 16 dotcom modules, I followed the guide on synthesizers.com.
First let me say that the music I've been making I'm using a Oberheim SEM, DSI Poly Evolver, Roland SH-101 and Waldorf Blofeld. I make atmosphere electronic/dubstep/hiphop hybrid, with very eerie noises, but I've been obsessing over the modular idea.
Now I need help picking modules, and I have a few questions before I start ordering. How much do VCOs/Filters vary in sound? I considered buying some of the synthesizer.com stuff, but then I'm second guessing myself. Plus other than a VCO/VCF/LFO I don't really know what all of the other module stuff sounds like, I know there is effects and such but most sites I can't really hear any examples using X VCO ran through X Filter, Is there any sound files I can hear in comparison based on a company, Does it matter?
Built my Rack, Next step
Filters all vary and contribute greatly to the overall timbre IMO. Pick a brand of synth you want it to sound like and you will usually find a filter that suits that sound quite nicely. Moog, Korg, Yamaha, Sequential Circuits, EMS, Roland etc all have clones available in 5U. I have 12 different filters in my rig and I find myself reaching for a specific one very often.
I have only ever had Dotcom VCO's, so I can't comment on the difference in the sound of those.
There are a ton of youtube and soundcloud demos of different modules on this forum. If you tell us more what you are looking for, they might pop up again.
I have only ever had Dotcom VCO's, so I can't comment on the difference in the sound of those.
There are a ton of youtube and soundcloud demos of different modules on this forum. If you tell us more what you are looking for, they might pop up again.
doctorvague wrote:I like hiding out at Muff's. Let's build a fort out of some chair cushions and a blanket.
JP wrote:Hell I want to be able to turn my toaster on with a CV trigger.
All those synths give you the classic VCO-VCF-LFO analog architecture, so what are you looking to replicate, and what do you want to do differently?
With a few exceptions, the main differences in VCO's will be visible on the spec sheets: features like digital oscs or wave morphing or extra modulation inputs are the major difference makers there. Otherwise, you can trust the basic waveforms should sound like your basic waveforms.
Since you're making dance music, you may want to look into modules with beat-syncable options, like tap-tempo LFO's for instance.
With a few exceptions, the main differences in VCO's will be visible on the spec sheets: features like digital oscs or wave morphing or extra modulation inputs are the major difference makers there. Otherwise, you can trust the basic waveforms should sound like your basic waveforms.
Since you're making dance music, you may want to look into modules with beat-syncable options, like tap-tempo LFO's for instance.
Wave morphing sounds interesting, I also saw a youtube video with a joystick which I really liked. tap tempo lfo sounds good too.
I can say this much, I'm pretty much settled on a dotcom setup vco/vcf
, I know its comparable to a moogish sound, which I like - and dont have with my current setup, but I would also like to mix in some other things, like a tap-tempo lfo as mentioned, wave morphing sounds good as well. I like the sound from the borg module from wiard as well. I like very metallic, grungy sounds as well. Honestly, there's so much to choose from it's overwhelming!
I can say this much, I'm pretty much settled on a dotcom setup vco/vcf
, I know its comparable to a moogish sound, which I like - and dont have with my current setup, but I would also like to mix in some other things, like a tap-tempo lfo as mentioned, wave morphing sounds good as well. I like the sound from the borg module from wiard as well. I like very metallic, grungy sounds as well. Honestly, there's so much to choose from it's overwhelming!
Re: Built my Rack, Next step
I'll assume you meant 16 dotcom spaces wide, as modules have different widths.fate wrote:I went out to home depot and made a DIY rack capable of fitting 16 dotcom modules.
Since 16 spaces isn't a lot, and you will probably want at least two oscillators, I'd suggest you look into 3rd-party options for complementary modules (e.g., LFO's, VCA's, filters) which may save you some space.
One of the most important components are the filters, since they impart most of the character in a sound, so I guess you will want at least two different filters. I'd suggest one lowpass and one multimode (LP/BP/HP) filter, at least.
If I were building a basic 16-space system, this is what I would get:
- 1 x Synthesizers.com Q137 Power Interface (1 space)
- 1 x Grove Audio MIDI Interface (1 space)
- 1 x Synthesizers.com Q105 slew limiter (1 space)
- 2 x Synthesizers.com Q106 oscillators (4 spaces)
- 1 x Megaohm Delta VCF or dotcom Q107 filter (2 spaces)
- 1 x Megaohm CdS or STG Sea Devils filter (1 space)
- 1 x Megaohm LFO-Two (1 space)
- 2 x Synthesizers.com Q109 Envelopes (2 spaces)
- 1 x STG Mixer (1 space)
- 1 x STG Signal Amplifiers (1 space)
That's 15 spaces. The remaining space I would use for either a dotcom noise source, or an instrument interface (if you plan to run other gear through the modular). If you already have a MIDI-CV converter, you could probably do without the MIDI Interface and Slew Limiter, which would free two spaces.
Now that I know them, I would definitely go for the megaohm filters instead of the dotcoms. There's nothing wrong with the Q107/Q150 pair, but the megaohm filters are IMO much more interesting. I haven't tried the STG filters yet.
If you like metallic sounds, the SSL Digital Delay and the dotcom reverb might be also interesting
I think you'll want an MS-20 filter clone... it's the source of so many aggressive synth lines. Megaohm makes one, and there are many others.
How do you use the SH-101 now? Play leads on it manually?
You could use its CV/Gate outs to play your modular from its keyboard.
Or if you get the Grove MIDI-CV interface it has 2 channels, and that way you could sequence both the 101 and modular.
The 101 could also act as your 2nd oscillator...
And is your SEM one of the modulars with all the CV patch points??
Another option to save space in the rack could be to get an external box that does MIDI-CV... for instance the Technosaurus Microcon II gives you a fat monosynth plus CV conversion, ditto the Waldorf Pulse, and the Novation BassStation in its own ugly way.
But if it were me making music from a computer sequencer, I'd want more MIDI-CV channels to modulate filter cutoff and resonance, trigger the reset Megaohm LFO-Two, turn on and off portamento...
A Kenton 4 channel converter would be a minimum starting point, in my opinion.
How do you use the SH-101 now? Play leads on it manually?
You could use its CV/Gate outs to play your modular from its keyboard.
Or if you get the Grove MIDI-CV interface it has 2 channels, and that way you could sequence both the 101 and modular.
The 101 could also act as your 2nd oscillator...
And is your SEM one of the modulars with all the CV patch points??
Another option to save space in the rack could be to get an external box that does MIDI-CV... for instance the Technosaurus Microcon II gives you a fat monosynth plus CV conversion, ditto the Waldorf Pulse, and the Novation BassStation in its own ugly way.
But if it were me making music from a computer sequencer, I'd want more MIDI-CV channels to modulate filter cutoff and resonance, trigger the reset Megaohm LFO-Two, turn on and off portamento...
A Kenton 4 channel converter would be a minimum starting point, in my opinion.
Space really doesn't have to be a problem. I can always build another 16 spacer, and mount it on top of the one I already built, It didnt take me longer than 2hrs. It will come down to money I can spend.
I'm going to *try* and get most of what was listed here second hand if I can. I need to sell my MPC 5000 as well, but that won't stop me from making purchases.
Actually now I read this on the Oberheim website,
"Control voltages and gate are bought out to rear panel connectors so MIDI to CV function can be used with other CV/Gate gear."
This may be a dumb question but, would this in turn mean that if I use one of the two CV out's from the SEM, to the input on my modular I can control the modular via midi being sent into the SEM? Plus use the portamento feature and maybe not need the slew limiter?
I'm going to *try* and get most of what was listed here second hand if I can. I need to sell my MPC 5000 as well, but that won't stop me from making purchases.
Actually now I read this on the Oberheim website,
"Control voltages and gate are bought out to rear panel connectors so MIDI to CV function can be used with other CV/Gate gear."
This may be a dumb question but, would this in turn mean that if I use one of the two CV out's from the SEM, to the input on my modular I can control the modular via midi being sent into the SEM? Plus use the portamento feature and maybe not need the slew limiter?
Yes, you should be able to control your modular using the SEM or SH101 CV outputs, and if any of them has portamento, you could also skip the Slew Limiter. The SL does have other uses, but you can skip it until you're sure you need/want it.fate wrote: This may be a dumb question but, would this in turn mean that if I use one of the two CV out's from the SEM, to the input on my modular I can control the modular via midi being sent into the SEM? Plus use the portamento feature and maybe not need the slew limiter?
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patchdub
- Wiggling with Experience
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check out silent way.
http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html
might be a good way to go as you can use your interface from your computer for your midi to cv. as well you'll get egs and lfos and other fun stuff.
i've been using volta through my ultralite but just made the switch to silent way and like it much better.
http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html
might be a good way to go as you can use your interface from your computer for your midi to cv. as well you'll get egs and lfos and other fun stuff.
i've been using volta through my ultralite but just made the switch to silent way and like it much better.
I'm really not a carpenter by any means, but i work in the field (electrician) it honestly took me longer to walk around home depot and find all of the parts and get home then it took to put together, and I also wood glued all of the screw holes and the joining ends of the cabinet which they mention to do. The hardest part was cutting the sides. The blade on my mitre saw wasn't big enough to make it through the whole 8" of it, I cut one then flipped it and the cut other for 2 unequal sides, i sanded it as best as i can to make it flat, and basically the wood glued filled any separation there was ( not much ).
Other than that from what I understand the compact MDF shelf grade shelves that knap and vogt makes are pretty solid, It would have cost me a lot more to make out of pine, plus more of a chance to bow, and I would of had to stain and finish it. This is super sturdy and super solid, and looks fantastic
So In my opinion, I think as an entry level mod cabinet with 16 positions this is good enough for now, espically for the price, i think it cost me $40, In the future If I decide to upgrade I think I will build one out of walnut or some other quality wood with 36+ positions, but even then wood is pricey, even from lumber yards. I dont know walnut prices at my lumber yards but I would guess for "clear" walnut with not many knots it would cost well over $150 to build or more given all your parts, stains, sealer, etc.
Other than that from what I understand the compact MDF shelf grade shelves that knap and vogt makes are pretty solid, It would have cost me a lot more to make out of pine, plus more of a chance to bow, and I would of had to stain and finish it. This is super sturdy and super solid, and looks fantastic
So In my opinion, I think as an entry level mod cabinet with 16 positions this is good enough for now, espically for the price, i think it cost me $40, In the future If I decide to upgrade I think I will build one out of walnut or some other quality wood with 36+ positions, but even then wood is pricey, even from lumber yards. I dont know walnut prices at my lumber yards but I would guess for "clear" walnut with not many knots it would cost well over $150 to build or more given all your parts, stains, sealer, etc.
I don't even remember the last time I used a saw :(
I'm interested because shipping a cabinet here is going to be quite expensive and I'm more than likely moving within a year or so and probably ditching the cabinet in the process. Maybe I can pay someone to put one together for me.
Sorry for the hijack!
I'm interested because shipping a cabinet here is going to be quite expensive and I'm more than likely moving within a year or so and probably ditching the cabinet in the process. Maybe I can pay someone to put one together for me.
Sorry for the hijack!
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diophantine
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
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Would love to see pics, fate! Is it a single row, or two?
Sounds like a good idea with the shelf-grade MDF. I guess it would be fine stacking them?
I have two portable cabinets, but am thinking of building something to stay in the studio (well, not like my portables have ever left the studio, but...) to hold DIY projects, modules that are too deep for the portables, and maybe some other formats. Would also be a good excuse to buy some more tools. ;-) Haven't done much building in quite some years, but had to help my girlfriend with some stuff the other week, and would like to get back into it.
Sounds like a good idea with the shelf-grade MDF. I guess it would be fine stacking them?
I have two portable cabinets, but am thinking of building something to stay in the studio (well, not like my portables have ever left the studio, but...) to hold DIY projects, modules that are too deep for the portables, and maybe some other formats. Would also be a good excuse to buy some more tools. ;-) Haven't done much building in quite some years, but had to help my girlfriend with some stuff the other week, and would like to get back into it.
Here's a crazy question, is it possible to emulate the EMS Synthi, or get close to it building a modular? Also I was looking for something to add distortion, I may fill the two spaces I'll gain(from not needing midi-cv/slew), with the MOTM 510 for some overdrive.
here's the cabinet, It's a single row, the only reason I didn't build the 42" is because one, they didn't have shelves that long, and two its actually kinda wide for my desk, and I'm limited on space the way it is. Once I sell my MPC 5000 I'm going to bring my APC40 and Oberheim to the front of my desk, and put the modular toward the rear, more towards(under) my mac. the desk I built as well
here's the cabinet, It's a single row, the only reason I didn't build the 42" is because one, they didn't have shelves that long, and two its actually kinda wide for my desk, and I'm limited on space the way it is. Once I sell my MPC 5000 I'm going to bring my APC40 and Oberheim to the front of my desk, and put the modular toward the rear, more towards(under) my mac. the desk I built as well
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diophantine
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
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Wow, that turned out looking really nice!!
For the EMS Synthi sound, there's a few modules that have been inspired by, or cloned off of, the EMS VCS3 components. I'll confess that I haven't had the pleasure to play with an EMS or any of these modules, but a number of these are definitely high on my want-list and I've heard nothing but good things about most of these (haven't heard much of anything about the first one).
For the VCO and Trapezoid EG, there's J. Haible's Living VCO and Trapezoid Generator.
http://www.jhaible.de/living_vcos/jh_living_vcos.html
http://www.jhaible.de/trapezoid/trapezoid.html
(There's more info on these at the electro-music forums. He seems to do his business there.)
For the VCF, there's STG's Sea Devil's filter, and YuSynth's Diode Ladder filter:
http://stgsoundlabs.com/products/sea_de ... ter_mu.htm
http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/EMSVCF/index.html
(To the best of my knowledge, STG's filter is basically a 1U version of the YuSynth one.)
Unfortunately, all but the Sea Devils are available only as PCBs (no faceplates, even). So, they definitely would require a fair bit of DIY.
Apparently STG's 5-channel mixer adds a fair amount of musical distortion - others could clue you in on that better than I could.
I've heard that the reverb is a huge part of what makes the EMS sound, at least on the VCS3. I don't know if the dotcom reverb would properly replace it.
Hope that helps some!
For the EMS Synthi sound, there's a few modules that have been inspired by, or cloned off of, the EMS VCS3 components. I'll confess that I haven't had the pleasure to play with an EMS or any of these modules, but a number of these are definitely high on my want-list and I've heard nothing but good things about most of these (haven't heard much of anything about the first one).
For the VCO and Trapezoid EG, there's J. Haible's Living VCO and Trapezoid Generator.
http://www.jhaible.de/living_vcos/jh_living_vcos.html
http://www.jhaible.de/trapezoid/trapezoid.html
(There's more info on these at the electro-music forums. He seems to do his business there.)
For the VCF, there's STG's Sea Devil's filter, and YuSynth's Diode Ladder filter:
http://stgsoundlabs.com/products/sea_de ... ter_mu.htm
http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/EMSVCF/index.html
(To the best of my knowledge, STG's filter is basically a 1U version of the YuSynth one.)
Unfortunately, all but the Sea Devils are available only as PCBs (no faceplates, even). So, they definitely would require a fair bit of DIY.
Apparently STG's 5-channel mixer adds a fair amount of musical distortion - others could clue you in on that better than I could.
I've heard that the reverb is a huge part of what makes the EMS sound, at least on the VCS3. I don't know if the dotcom reverb would properly replace it.
Hope that helps some!
Thanks yea it does look pretty good and for the price you can't beat it. I'm kinda reluctant to go ahead with dotcom purhases mainly the vco/env. The more I read the more I see people selling their dotcom systems for upgrades.. Maybe it's foolish of me but, now I'm thinking of maybe getting different envelops and vcos. but probably buying the same filters mentioned here. Would the modcan stuff fit in a 9" opening? And also would having 2 different vcos and 2 different envelops be unconventional? Maybe 1 modcan vco and The living vco from hiable
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kindredlost
- 5U skiff friendly
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Just FYI.
Krisp1 has a nice Oakley Diode Super Ladder filter. I have both it and the Sea Devils and the Oakley is more aggresive in that it is pretty bold in the "steep" region and has a selectable four or five diode ladder. It can be swept from Low Pass through Band Pass to the so-called "Steep" region. The Sea devils is classic diode ladder but not quite as versatile and more subdued.
The topology and sound may not be quite as close to an EMS like the STG is but the sound is very powerful. I haven't tried to make the Oakley sound like the Sea Devils but it would be worth a try.
Either filter are really great sounding. I love the STG Sea Devils and am very familiar with it's performance but not so versed in the full scale of the Oakley SDL because I've only had it for a week or two.
Another big thumbs up for the Q106 oscillator. A standard for MU modules.
The Megaohm LFO Two is another must have module. You can get plenty of good love from that little module.
The STG Signal Amplifiers and Mixer modules are very cool and have the field beat for density. You will also have plenty of great potential for the overdrive that you are looking for from the STG Signal Amplifiers and the Mixer modules. Two-In-One!
If you like clangy mettalic sounds a Ring Modulator might go well in the mix somewhere. The dotcom Q116 is pretty basic but will do for a good start. I agree about the SSL 1310 Digital Delay. I use mine to a fault and love the terrorizing it performs on otherwise tame sounds.
Krisp1 has a nice Oakley Diode Super Ladder filter. I have both it and the Sea Devils and the Oakley is more aggresive in that it is pretty bold in the "steep" region and has a selectable four or five diode ladder. It can be swept from Low Pass through Band Pass to the so-called "Steep" region. The Sea devils is classic diode ladder but not quite as versatile and more subdued.
The topology and sound may not be quite as close to an EMS like the STG is but the sound is very powerful. I haven't tried to make the Oakley sound like the Sea Devils but it would be worth a try.
Either filter are really great sounding. I love the STG Sea Devils and am very familiar with it's performance but not so versed in the full scale of the Oakley SDL because I've only had it for a week or two.
Another big thumbs up for the Q106 oscillator. A standard for MU modules.
The Megaohm LFO Two is another must have module. You can get plenty of good love from that little module.
The STG Signal Amplifiers and Mixer modules are very cool and have the field beat for density. You will also have plenty of great potential for the overdrive that you are looking for from the STG Signal Amplifiers and the Mixer modules. Two-In-One!
If you like clangy mettalic sounds a Ring Modulator might go well in the mix somewhere. The dotcom Q116 is pretty basic but will do for a good start. I agree about the SSL 1310 Digital Delay. I use mine to a fault and love the terrorizing it performs on otherwise tame sounds.
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emdot_ambient
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
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- Location: Frederick, Maryland USA
Well, you can get the PCB, Parts Kit and front panel here:diophantine wrote:For the VCF, there's...YuSynth's Diode Ladder filter:
http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/EMSVCF/index.html
Unfortunately...available only as PCBs (no faceplates, even). So, they definitely would require a fair bit of DIY.
http://bridechamber.com/Yu_Diode_Filter.html
But you do still have to DIY it.
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diophantine
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
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Don't pass up on the Q106 VCO! It is really great. Haven't heard much of a bad word spoken against it. If anyone is getting rid of them, it is likely that they're either switching formats, or already have a ton of Q106s and want some more variety.
Having two matching VCOs can be nice, yes.
The Haible Living VCO is a beast in size & apparently to build too. Not trying to discourage you, but I think you would get more mileage out of two Q107s.
Regarding the EG, there's a variety of opinions about the Q109, and some threads here about it. They're the least used modules in my cabinet, but that is more because of me than the module itself.
Modcan-B can fit in your case, but bear in mind that it is the same width as MOTM, so narrower than Synthesizers.com stuff.
+1 on the LFOtwo!
For a trapezoid, you could substitute an Encore Universal Event Generator. While it would not have the exact same controls (particularly CV), you can create trapezoids and a billion other shaped envelopes. And use it as a basic sequencer. It is not perfect - I have some issues with duration sensitivity, but if you are looking for something different, this could be nice.
The more I look at it, the more I like fac's suggestions, with the modifications I've listed below:
Remove one Q109 and replace it with a UEG. (-1 +2 space)
If you don't want the other Q109, look into an Oakley looping ADSR/VCA. (-1 +1 space)
Dump the MIDI and slew if you don't need them - or move the MIDI to the back if that works for you.
Even if you're leaving the MIDI & slew in there, you'll still have a free space for:
- 1 x Synthesizers.com Q124 Multiples (1 space)
Doesn't sound glamorous, but it'll come in handy!
Having two matching VCOs can be nice, yes.
The Haible Living VCO is a beast in size & apparently to build too. Not trying to discourage you, but I think you would get more mileage out of two Q107s.
Regarding the EG, there's a variety of opinions about the Q109, and some threads here about it. They're the least used modules in my cabinet, but that is more because of me than the module itself.
Modcan-B can fit in your case, but bear in mind that it is the same width as MOTM, so narrower than Synthesizers.com stuff.
+1 on the LFOtwo!
For a trapezoid, you could substitute an Encore Universal Event Generator. While it would not have the exact same controls (particularly CV), you can create trapezoids and a billion other shaped envelopes. And use it as a basic sequencer. It is not perfect - I have some issues with duration sensitivity, but if you are looking for something different, this could be nice.
The more I look at it, the more I like fac's suggestions, with the modifications I've listed below:
Power interface can go on the back of yours. (-1 space)fac wrote:- 1 x Synthesizers.com Q137 Power Interface (1 space)
- 1 x Grove Audio MIDI Interface (1 space)
- 1 x Synthesizers.com Q105 slew limiter (1 space)
- 2 x Synthesizers.com Q106 oscillators (4 spaces)
- 1 x Megaohm Delta VCF or dotcom Q107 filter (2 spaces)
- 1 x Megaohm CdS or STG Sea Devils filter (1 space)
- 1 x Megaohm LFO-Two (1 space)
- 2 x Synthesizers.com Q109 Envelopes (2 spaces)
- 1 x STG Mixer (1 space)
- 1 x STG Signal Amplifiers (1 space)
Remove one Q109 and replace it with a UEG. (-1 +2 space)
If you don't want the other Q109, look into an Oakley looping ADSR/VCA. (-1 +1 space)
Dump the MIDI and slew if you don't need them - or move the MIDI to the back if that works for you.
Even if you're leaving the MIDI & slew in there, you'll still have a free space for:
- 1 x Synthesizers.com Q124 Multiples (1 space)
Doesn't sound glamorous, but it'll come in handy!
Last edited by diophantine on Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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emdot_ambient
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
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...also, not sure if it's available in MU format yet, and not sure if it's got a character you want/need/like...but the sound examples of the new Oakley Croglin filter are amazing. It's on the top of my want list:
http://www.oakleysound.com/croglin.htm
http://soundcloud.com/takla-makan/sets/oakley-modular
http://www.oakleysound.com/croglin.htm
http://soundcloud.com/takla-makan/sets/oakley-modular
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diophantine
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
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Ah, I forgot Bridechamber had a kit for that one.emdot_ambient wrote:Well, you can get the PCB, Parts Kit and front panel here:diophantine wrote:For the VCF, there's...YuSynth's Diode Ladder filter:
http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/EMSVCF/index.html
Unfortunately...available only as PCBs (no faceplates, even). So, they definitely would require a fair bit of DIY.
http://bridechamber.com/Yu_Diode_Filter.html
But you do still have to DIY it.
But, it is MOTM, not MU.
Agreed on the Oakley Croglin sounding good! Waiting for that in MU myself...