Modcan Quarter Tone / Maqam Quantizer

dude · Post by **dude** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:51 pm

r u fuckin w/bach? he don't liked to be fucked with

kindredlost · Post by **kindredlost** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:55 pm

I'd beat that dusty wig off his nappy head. Shit!

dude · Post by **dude** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:58 pm

i am hereby invoking th'wrath of bach on you

JohnLRice · Post by **JohnLRice** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:41 pm

dude wrote:i am hereby invoking th'wrath of bach on you

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH!!!!!!

dude · Post by **dude** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:56 pm

somebody needs to photoshop a wig on that mofo!

gryfon1 · Post by **gryfon1** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:00 pm

kindredlost wrote:The HrmA-12T should prove to incur significant consequences for synth work.

http://www.hermode.com/index_en.html

Less tonal phasing and "beating" vs. the compromise with 12tET. (no disrespect to J.S. Bach)

Ok, pedant mode on, ignore as you please:
Bach did not favor 12T Equal Temperament, not at all. He favored 12T Well Tempered systems, where the intervals between notes is not constant. This provides a certain 'color' to each of the tonal centers, due to changes in size of interval between, e.g., tonic, dominant, third, and fifth, while avoiding the worst excesses of the 'pure' tunings. Bach would be appalled to be associated with Equal Temperament -- the Well Tempered Clavier was intended specifically to demonstrate the superiority of Well Tempered tuning.
[for extra pedant points, let me mention Kirnberger & Werkmeister, both of which have several variants, so you'll see references to Kirnberger II or Werkmeister III. A person could spend lifetimes in the minutiae of temperament...]
It's worth taking the time to hear a few things whose tonal center is not CMajor performed in one or another of the Well Tempered temperaments...

pedant mode off, we now return you to our distressingly equal tempered world ;-)

cheers,
the gryfon

kindredlost · Post by **kindredlost** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:16 pm

Gryphon1 - you are right. Sorry for the blunder. Poor J.S. is jumping up and down on his powdery wig right now.

dude · Post by **dude** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:09 pm

gryfon1 · Post by **gryfon1** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:44 am

+1
lol

Scooter McCrae · Post by **Scooter McCrae** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:59 am

Maybe I'm just flouting my relative ignorance by suggesting something like this, but instead of altering the Quantizer Module, could the same thing be achieved by creating a ROM for the Miniwave that uses these other scales since the Miniwave can be used for quantization as well? It seems like if that were the case then this would be the easiest solution.

Speaking of which, how hard is it to switch out the ROM on the Miniwave? Is it as simple as it looks (ie: snap one off and put another one on)?

Scooter McCrae

modularland · Post by **modularland** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:29 pm

miniwave could work too but i'm looking at the given/dedicated UI of the quantizer module for tackling this first

bruce is out on winter holiday now so when he comes back i'll update you on more...

i have someone in the middle east who will verify the accuracy of the resulting quantizing results- i will run the test and send audio files to him

parasitk · Post by **parasitk** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:08 pm

Scooter McCrae wrote:Speaking of which, how hard is it to switch out the ROM on the Miniwave? Is it as simple as it looks (ie: snap one off and put another one on)?

It's easy, but should not include the word "snap".

Pull one chip out, push one chip in. I replaced both chips on mine (the Blacet version has a normal chip socket on one and an "easy to switch" chip socket on the other. I think the normal socket was easier to pull!

Scooter McCrae · Post by **Scooter McCrae** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:44 pm

Very cool around, gentleman.

Steve, I think this would be a cool addition to the musical template. As I have a Miniwave module now (WHICH I'M LOVING), the ROM seems like the cheaper alternative for my current system, but I admit that if the option was offered as a Quantizer Module upgrade....!

Chris, thanks for the info. I recently received the Holy Grail (ie: the PPG wavetable ROM) and wanted to sna.... uhm, CONNECT it to the Miniwave, but wanted to make sure there was nothing more involved than just doing what you succinctly described. It sounds simple enough for even me to achieve. Hopefully. Maybe.

Scooter McCrae

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:04 pm

I haven't done quantizer stuff with ROMs before, but I'm assuming once one figures out the basic formula for mapping a note's frequency to a ROM amplitude, accounting for 1/VO range, that it isn't too tricky

Ive got a few things to learn about the process.. but provided I'm able to figure all that out, I'd be willing to explore making a MiniWave ROM of these scales if there is enough interest to offset the cost of buying a burner.

modularland · Post by **modularland** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:15 am

FYI Bruce is interested in updating firmware to add some maqam scales... its experimental so when he has time we'll hopefully toy with this.

In the meantime I did find that in Cubase 5 there is a 'tuning' MIDI modifier that has some quarter tone presets- I'm going to play with this and the Modcan MIDI-CV and if I can get some good results I'll post...

dude · Post by **dude** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:41 pm

also bruce brought up a good point about achieving 1/4tone scales by simply dividing the quantizer output by 2 with an attenuator>boom>1/4tone scales! i would still dig a new rom for bank c info but honestly we can likely do anything with our giant modular beasts if we put our minds to it

gryfon1 · Post by **gryfon1** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:58 pm

The 'problem' I have with that solution is that 1/4 tone is probably the least interesting of the alternative scales available. ESPECIALLY when it's quarter-tone based on equal-tempered scales, rather than one of the more in-tune well-tempered scales.
Getting a nice 17, 23, or 37 tone division would be really hard with an attenuator... And it's still based on equal temperament.
We've got so much timbral flexibility it's really a shame that we're limited only to equal tempered scales without jumping through some pretty insane hoops. [e.g., Silent Way and computer-based tuning tables]
Any chance Bruce might put a couple of the well-tempered scales in a new firmware set? Just intonation, with root set using the transpose input would be pretty radical, too!

cheers,
the gryfon[/i]

parasitk · Post by **parasitk** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:20 pm

gryfon1 wrote:Just intonation, with root set using the transpose input would be pretty radical, too!

Yes!

modularland · Post by **modularland** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:37 pm

here is an example of analog playing maqams & other 1/4 tone type stuff:

http://www.moogmusic.com/littlephatty/? ... t_id=21398

play the bottom video

isn't that cool?

asdf · Post by **asdf** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:30 pm

gryfon1 wrote: Just intonation, with root set using the transpose input would be pretty radical, too!
[/i]

there have to be some people on here who've gotten into this a bit?

info on options?

what I've been wanting (which seems doable to my limited understanding) would be something that works along the lines of digital synths' user-scale tuning systems. I end up wanting all kinds of alternate tunings and for me it's really about flexibility and accuracy more than preset scales.

what have people done to accomplish this?

I'm also thinking not only of just intonation, but also xenakis' sieve concept and tuning to some of my favorite gamelan records.

dude · Post by **dude** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:36 pm

asdf wrote:
gryfon1 wrote: Just intonation, with root set using the transpose input would be pretty radical, too!
[/i]
there have to be some people on here who've gotten into this a bit?

info on options?

what I've been wanting (which seems doable to my limited understanding) would be something that works along the lines of digital synths' user-scale tuning systems. I end up wanting all kinds of alternate tunings and for me it's really about flexibility and accuracy more than preset scales.

what have people done to accomplish this?

I'm also thinking not only of just intonation, but also xenakis' sieve concept and tuning to some of my favorite gamelan records.

i believe there were some solutions discussed earlier in this thread

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Modcan Quarter Tone / Maqam Quantizer