seeking modcan flanger physical modeling and other tips

[dude]

i have received another batch of modcan and my expectations have been met and exceeded in all cases except the flanger. everything it does reminds me of champagne. and i guess i don't always want champagne. maybe i just shouldn't expect to want it in every patch.

its late so i may not make as much sense as, well fuck i don't usually make a ton of sense anyways

so anyway i did some demo stuff with it to try and learn the ropes and see how i might like to patch this guy. that went fine. then today i tried to get into some physical modeling stuff and..it worked...i made some woodwind sounds and they tracked pretty well too. but... i guess i am just hoping to get some patch ideas in the modeling department or otherwise.

i will say, i fucking love the on-board vclfo with built-in vca! i use that more than the flanger itself. i guess i am a sucker for a nice wide range analog triangle lfo with voltage control abounding. i don't have another one of those in my system quite like it. but i digress.

and further digression, the pcbs of the phaser and flanger are ridiculously beautiful. i wasn't expecting that either.

if you have any good patch ideas, help me out.

[dude]

i would have put this in modular general but the modcan version has some specifics which i don't think are at all universal to flangers in general.

[snoop]

Hi!

What i do is using only a short noise burst coupled with a transient and send it to the flanger. Using the delay out with as much regen as you can before it gets out of control. With this you get a real simple guitar patch. Splitting the output, filtering it and send it to another delay gives you a crude guitar body.

Also setting up two/three delays (flanger or anything else) in feedback loops gives great bell and percussion sounds.

It`s hard to control these kind of patches as the modcan delays don`t seem to have a good enough limiters on the output/regen. It gets out of control real quick.

If you want to play "stairway to heaven" on the modular your in trouble. But if you want guitar, bell or woodwind characterictics in the sound your better of.

Another thing that`s cool about this approach to soundmaking is that the stricker of a bell or an exciter of a saxophone sound need not to be traditional. Instead of a metal object or lips you can replace it with something else. You can make your car starting up sound like a trumpet, your cat sound like a church bell. Dumb excamples... but there are a lot of possibilities in this.

The only problem is that the flanger is quite noisy, so in my experience it`s better to have the flanger early in the chain with ADSR, and then have other delays resonate further.

You can also obtain large number of percussion sounds with resonating delays. Patch this and check it out:


Short noiseburst into mixer - Out to the delays from mixer - Delays back into the same mixer - Output from mixer.

Throw in some filters for some more control. It`s a simple and crude starting point. But a good starting point.

... physical modelling is hard to explain without drawing up models...

[gryfon1]

You have, or at least have read, Gordon Reid's Synth Secrets series from Sound on Sound, right? There's a hefty chunk on physical modeling with modules in that hefty collection.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

cheers,
the gryfon

[thermionicjunky]

I can still find uses for my flanger when I don't want flanging. Low feedback, nearly stationary peak and notch filtering is great. Whenever you need the sound to open up or close down, bump the manual control a bit.

[dude]

i suppose i need to start reading again. thank guys!

[7thDanSound]

I follow this thread with great interest since the flanger is one of the modules on my gotta have list when/if I go Modcan. So keep it coming!

And btw dude, those vids are kick ass, thanks for posting!

[dude]

I can still find uses for my flanger when I don't want flanging. Low feedback, nearly stationary peak and notch filtering is great. Whenever you need the sound to open up or close down, bump the manual control a bit.

do you mean the flanger is doing the peak/notch filtering or that i should run the flanger through a notch filter after?

[sunsinger]

A slow sine wave LFO sweeping the CV input... turn CV up to Eleven, send the output to input of a Super Delay or Digital Delay. Now sweep the Delay CV with a slow sweep sine LFO. Output to your favorite sauce. The sound rips the universe apart in some very random and unrepeatable ways.

The Flanger also self oscillates very nicely for some interesting effects.
I have the Super Delay and the Dual Frequency Shifter and Flanger. It's a formidable set of effects when used together with LFO CV Automation.

[dude]

well there is one for sale in the bst.

[snoop]

Made two short pieces with the flanger. It`s just crude and fast put together pieces. Everything is made with a short noise burst into the flanger, except the main bassy thing in number one. That`s an offset sine wave into flanger.

http://www.frodebeats.com/Audio/Links/H ... ood_83.mp3

The rat pack:
http://www.frodebeats.com/audio/Links/Nauen_100.mp3

[BananaPlug]

Snoop, that was very helpful. I'd have bought Dude's flanger but want A format. In "rat pack" how close is that, if you recall, to the shortest possible delay setting?

[snoop]

It`s different delay settings. It`s all done with the Modcan B flanger, using delay out (not flanger out), so it`s very short delays, but not the shortest. Of course it`s not just the delay... It`s a a big Karplus-Strongish patch, but the flanger provides all the delays, except the brass sound that also has the super delay (not really needed, but gives it a little more more bite).

Not quite sure about the accurate settings i used, i just tune it til it sounds somewhat ok. But very short with as much regen as possible/suitable

[BlueOctopus]

Nice examples

[snoop]

Thanks. You trained it well! Can wait for the panner you just sent me...

[parasitk]

I'd love to hear more clips of the VC Flanger doing either PMish things or just regenerative/feedback type stuff. It might be my next Modcan A module...

[jkjelec]

dude wrote:

everything it does reminds me of champagne.

Haha! That is exactly what I think my Frostwave Sonic Alienator (Bit decimator, Bit swapper) sounds like!

[DedMousie]

Also worth a read - "Physical Modeling on the Nord Modular":

http://electro-music.com/pm_tutorial/

[parasitk]

I'd love to hear more clips of the VC Flanger doing either PMish things or just regenerative/feedback type stuff. It might be my next Modcan A module...

Also I'd love to hear clips of it just self oscillating and what kind of tones can come of manipulating that. Please?

[dude]

I'd love to hear more clips of the VC Flanger doing either PMish things or just regenerative/feedback type stuff. It might be my next Modcan A module...

Also I'd love to hear clips of it just self oscillating and what kind of tones can come of manipulating that. Please?

i thought i made a video of that but apparently not, or at least i can't find it.

[dude]

the digi delay can do some bitchin flanging but it doesn't track in a similar way. i have not explored contained feedback systems very much with it but the delay is so much more flexible as tone processor than the flanger imo.

[parasitk]

I remember seeing your vids, and I heard the clips in this thread, but I haven't really heard a clear recording of it oscillating like crazy...

the digi delay can do some bitchin flanging but it doesn't track in a similar way. i have not explored contained feedback systems very much with it but the delay is so much more flexible as tone processor than the flanger imo.

The digi is on my list as well, but it doesn't have the same distortion characteristics as BBD delays. I actually have no intention to use the vc flanger as a traditional flanger, as I'm not so into that sound. But for K-S and self-oscillating feeback? Yep.

I'd also consider the Super Delay, but I'm sure they'll be gone by the time I'll have the money for any new modules. Of course, I'll ask Bruce before I order!

[dude]

yeah, the flanger was very cool for physical stuff but it felt limited in timbre. clearly sound could be beefed/manipuated using a bunch of modules but flexibility is not imo one of the flangers characteristics. i am still in love with its onboard wide ranging vc triangle lfo though
i have a super en route to me so i can try and cook something up for you once it arrives. scooter made a killer diller video comparing the digi/super last week. it may not encompass the parts you are looking for. anyway, i understand the search for the right set of tools 8_) let me know if i can be of service to you. i think i will try to do some digi KS when i get a second.

[parasitk]

yeah, the flanger was very cool for physical stuff but it felt limited in timbre. clearly sound could be beefed/manipuated using a bunch of modules but flexibility is not imo one of the flangers characteristics. i am still in love with its onboard wide ranging vc triangle lfo though
i have a super en route to me so i can try and cook something up for you once it arrives. scooter made a killer diller video comparing the digi/super last week. it may not encompass the parts you are looking for. anyway, i understand the search for the right set of tools 8_) let me know if i can be of service to you. i think i will try to do some digi KS when i get a second.

Actually it's Scooter's vid that perfectly demonstrates some of the differences I'm after. Right now I'm looking for BBD based delays for feedback, distortion, and pitch shifting artifacts. The Flanger and the Super Delay each have their own range/territories that I find pleasing. The Digi-delay is on my list, but is MUCH less important for the sounds I'm after.

I don't care if it's flexible if it creates the sounds I'm after.

I can do digital delay feedback/K-S with my Evolver too. But again, I'm after the qualities that a BBD has to offer at the moment.

If I could I'd just get the Serge WAD M-odule and be done with it, but I'm not sure when I'll ever see $2000 in my life again. $5-600 I can reach with enough time and with selling other shit (as usual). Unless I actually find a fucking job already...

[dude]

so i know this is off but here some kp on the digi delay. i honestly find it much cooler than the flanger but i have said that so many times that i'll just say it one more. you could very easily turn the digi into sounding not digital.
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