Zlob VC F3DB

[ColdBecoming]

Thank you for pointing this out, I just ordered a VC F3DB. I'm used to the attenuators thing because that's how the Schlappi Angle Grinder handles it with its feedback sliders.

It's a good question, but I don't have a strong preference. Although attenuators are easier to come by than offsets, so maybe you're right. This is where the value of modules like Mutable Marbles or Clank Chaos come in, with their built in offsets.

I just realized how well Clank Chaos will pair with F3DB. 6 unipolar quantized/slewed voltages with precise control over range, offset, and rate. Now I'm fully hyped

[Derpwad666]

It's not just that offsets are harder to come by and a passive attenuator can be made with a few cents of parts, but also patching wise it's a nightmare: now you have your modulation signal mixed with your offset, so the CV attenuator knob doesn't just attenuate the modulation (which would be nice) but also the included offset, meaning you'll need another attenuator on your modulation before the offset to have access to finely dial in the attenuation.

Keeping the knob as offset also has the added benefit that it simply doesn't change function (better ui) and that patching a 0v signal (which you could fade in slowly) will have no impact on the setting, where when it becomes an attenuator it instantly changes the output, often making live patching very hard.

What are positives of doing it this way? Cost and space spaving of 1 mini-pot?

[far]

It's not just that offsets are harder to come by and a passive attenuator can be made with a few cents of parts, but also patching wise it's a nightmare: now you have your modulation signal mixed with your offset, so the CV attenuator knob doesn't just attenuate the modulation (which would be nice) but also the included offset, meaning you'll need another attenuator on your modulation before the offset to have access to finely dial in the attenuation.

Keeping the knob as offset also has the added benefit that it simply doesn't change function (better ui) and that patching a 0v signal (which you could fade in slowly) will have no impact on the setting, where when it becomes an attenuator it instantly changes the output, often making live patching very hard.

What are positives of doing it this way? Cost and space spaving of 1 mini-pot?

Interesting as I've sold modules that do this in the past but with this one Ive never seen as an issue and like how it is, maybe how I use it works for me. I also use 2x matrix mixer in my setup with an offset as one of the in's, so if I want offset, just dial it, possibly why I've never thought as an issue.

[vidret]

Thank you for pointing this out, I just ordered a VC F3DB. I'm used to the attenuators thing because that's how the Schlappi Angle Grinder handles it with its feedback sliders.

It's a good question, but I don't have a strong preference. Although attenuators are easier to come by than offsets, so maybe you're right. This is where the value of modules like Mutable Marbles or Clank Chaos come in, with their built in offsets.

I just realized how well Clank Chaos will pair with F3DB. 6 unipolar quantized/slewed voltages with precise control over range, offset, and rate. Now I'm fully hyped

The angle grinder sliders are always offsets, no?

Not even a pet peeve of mini in euro, it's a big peeve. Kills the function of the erbe-verb mix CV in for me as I usually want to duck it.

[ColdBecoming]

You're right about the AG, I was backwards.

[r-l]

Never posted it there — but here's a short excerpt of the VC F3DB - in the background of a granular storm (Noise > MI Beads) - processing some triangle waves, the higher ones being animated with Batumi's Square LFOs.

[Wubz]

So I've built a bunch of DIY kits including Befaco Muxlicer, Crush delay, Dannysound dynamics, EN129 and timbre as well as a few other simpler ones.......
Can I build this?

[pugix]

So I've built a bunch of DIY kits including Befaco Muxlicer, Crush delay, Dannysound dynamics, EN129 and timbre as well as a few other simpler ones.......
Can I build this?

It's an advanced build. I highly suggest buying a full kit. Here's my writeup.

https://pugix.com/synth/zlob-vc-f3db/

[Wubz]

So I've built a bunch of DIY kits including Befaco Muxlicer, Crush delay, Dannysound dynamics, EN129 and timbre as well as a few other simpler ones.......
Can I build this?

It's an advanced build. I highly suggest buying a full kit. Here's my writeup.

https://pugix.com/synth/zlob-vc-f3db/

I had a peek and managed to put myself off.
I should probably thank you. All that talk of washing PCBs makes me question if i’ve been doing it all
wromg.

[dreamrobe]

So I've built a bunch of DIY kits including Befaco Muxlicer, Crush delay, Dannysound dynamics, EN129 and timbre as well as a few other simpler ones.......
Can I build this?

It's an advanced build. I highly suggest buying a full kit. Here's my writeup.

https://pugix.com/synth/zlob-vc-f3db/

I had a peek and managed to put myself off.
I should probably thank you. All that talk of washing PCBs makes me question if i’ve been doing it all
wromg.

Some weeks ago I finished building a F3DB and I did not wash anything.
Before that a Crush delay was the most complex thing I built so I would say a F3DB is doable for a beginner.
The build manual is great but unusual. The only thing that made me wonder was the orientation of some resistorarrays. Only when the orientation is mentioned you should be aware of it.
Other than that is was a very fun build that took me around 4 days and I learned a good deal about desoldering. So make triple sure about the placement of the components.

[pugix]

So I've built a bunch of DIY kits including Befaco Muxlicer, Crush delay, Dannysound dynamics, EN129 and timbre as well as a few other simpler ones.......
Can I build this?

It's an advanced build. I highly suggest buying a full kit. Here's my writeup.

https://pugix.com/synth/zlob-vc-f3db/

I had a peek and managed to put myself off.
I should probably thank you. All that talk of washing PCBs makes me question if i’ve been doing it all
wrong.

It's not necessary to use organic water washable solder. It's just been my habit for many years and I like how it makes the soldered board easier to visually inspect.

[TumeniKnobs]

So I've built a bunch of DIY kits including Befaco Muxlicer, Crush delay, Dannysound dynamics, EN129 and timbre as well as a few other simpler ones.......
Can I build this?

It's an advanced build. I highly suggest buying a full kit. Here's my writeup.

https://pugix.com/synth/zlob-vc-f3db/

I had a peek and managed to put myself off.
I should probably thank you. All that talk of washing PCBs makes me question if i’ve been doing it all
wrong.

It's not necessary to use organic water washable solder. It's just been my habit for many years and I like how it makes the soldered board easier to visually inspect.

I’ve almost convinced myself to try this build. It should be totally doable with care.

That Kester 331 water soluble solder is the best! Being able to wash the boards with warm water and a soft toothbrush is so convenient and produces amazing results. I try to wash within 24 hours, but have left it two days. I usually use 331 for resistors, diodes, capacitors, transistors, ic sockets, jacks, pin headers and sockets (anything that’s highly water resistant), then switch to no-clean solder for everything else. Can’t recommend it enough. I don’t bother cleaning up after the no-clean with isopropyl - I never get similar results.

[pugix]

I’ve almost convinced myself to try this build. It should be totally doable with care.

That Kester 331 water soluble solder is the best! Being able to wash the boards with warm water and a soft toothbrush is so convenient and produces amazing results. I try to wash within 24 hours, but have left it two days. I usually use 331 for resistors, diodes, capacitors, transistors, ic sockets, jacks, pin headers and sockets (anything that’s highly water resistant), then switch to no-clean solder for everything else. Can’t recommend it enough. I don’t bother cleaning up after the no-clean with isopropyl - I never get similar results.

I do use Kester 331, pretty much as you describe. But I wash within 1 hour of soldering, because if improperly washed, some flux can remain and it's corrosive. You might not notice it for a couple of years. I pay particular attention to brushing transistor legs when washing. Both sides of the board need a good scrubbing.

[TumeniKnobs]

I’ve almost convinced myself to try this build. It should be totally doable with care.

That Kester 331 water soluble solder is the best! Being able to wash the boards with warm water and a soft toothbrush is so convenient and produces amazing results. I try to wash within 24 hours, but have left it two days. I usually use 331 for resistors, diodes, capacitors, transistors, ic sockets, jacks, pin headers and sockets (anything that’s highly water resistant), then switch to no-clean solder for everything else. Can’t recommend it enough. I don’t bother cleaning up after the no-clean with isopropyl - I never get similar results.

I do use Kester 331, pretty much as you describe. But I wash within 1 hour of soldering, because if improperly washed, some flux can remain and it's corrosive. You might not notice it for a couple of years. I pay particular attention to brushing transistor legs when washing. Both sides of the board need a good scrubbing.

Yes, I use hot softened water and give a good scrub, rinse, compressed air blow dry, check, repeat as necessary to get it all off. And yes, both sides of the board. The data sheet says to clean within 48 hours, but certainly there's no harm in washing sooner. This all sounds like a lot of extra steps over using no-clean solder, but as I said, the results are amazing, and worth the extra effort IMO. Now, back to my Pro2021 build. :-) Cheers!

[m12386]

I’ve almost convinced myself to try this build. It should be totally doable with care.

That Kester 331 water soluble solder is the best! Being able to wash the boards with warm water and a soft toothbrush is so convenient and produces amazing results. I try to wash within 24 hours, but have left it two days. I usually use 331 for resistors, diodes, capacitors, transistors, ic sockets, jacks, pin headers and sockets (anything that’s highly water resistant), then switch to no-clean solder for everything else. Can’t recommend it enough. I don’t bother cleaning up after the no-clean with isopropyl - I never get similar results.

I do use Kester 331, pretty much as you describe. But I wash within 1 hour of soldering, because if improperly washed, some flux can remain and it's corrosive. You might not notice it for a couple of years. I pay particular attention to brushing transistor legs when washing. Both sides of the board need a good scrubbing.

What flux are you using for the 331? I bought a huge gallon of the 2331-ZX. It works great, but it’s toxic as hell. Also, better not screw up when using the 331 because it’s a PIA to desolder.

[pugix]

I’ve almost convinced myself to try this build. It should be totally doable with care.

That Kester 331 water soluble solder is the best! Being able to wash the boards with warm water and a soft toothbrush is so convenient and produces amazing results. I try to wash within 24 hours, but have left it two days. I usually use 331 for resistors, diodes, capacitors, transistors, ic sockets, jacks, pin headers and sockets (anything that’s highly water resistant), then switch to no-clean solder for everything else. Can’t recommend it enough. I don’t bother cleaning up after the no-clean with isopropyl - I never get similar results.

I do use Kester 331, pretty much as you describe. But I wash within 1 hour of soldering, because if improperly washed, some flux can remain and it's corrosive. You might not notice it for a couple of years. I pay particular attention to brushing transistor legs when washing. Both sides of the board need a good scrubbing.

What flux are you using for the 331? I bought a huge gallon of the 2331-ZX. It works great, but it’s toxic as hell. Also, better not screw up when using the 331 because it’s a PIA to desolder.

I don't use extra flux with 331. For rework I use Kester 245 no-clean, SRA Flux pen 312 no-clean, and Superwick #425-NS no-clean.

Maybe this soldering discussion belongs in it's own thread. There are lots of soldering thread in DIY.