Behringer VCS3

[everydaycurry]

Behringers usually look fine but the fake wood they use is hideous, 'cheapest furniture off of Amazon' bad - instead of making the Prophet or VCS look upscale it actually makes them look cheaper and shoddier than if they just used metal or even plastic.

Which doesn't matter in the end, of course, I just find the choice baffling.

[slumberjack]

It does look like glued solid wood, if you zoom in you can see the texture going round the edges. I'd say some hardwood maybe linden if done in europe. Stained shade walnut...

[chaosium]

Behringers usually look fine but the fake wood they use is hideous, 'cheapest furniture off of Amazon' bad - instead of making the Prophet or VCS look upscale it actually makes them look cheaper and shoddier than if they just used metal or even plastic.

Which doesn't matter in the end, of course, I just find the choice baffling.

Beyond case, I wonder if the modder community is going to offer any "upgrades" to the signal path. For most of B's offerings it would be a waste of money over buying what is cloneable with better options, but beyond the SYNTRX (which itself is an inspired design but not a "clone") nobody's out there producing anything like this at scale.

[MindMachine]

Behringers usually look fine but the fake wood they use is hideous, 'cheapest furniture off of Amazon' bad - instead of making the Prophet or VCS look upscale it actually makes them look cheaper and shoddier than if they just used metal or even plastic.

Which doesn't matter in the end, of course, I just find the choice baffling.

At least it will sound identical.

[ersatzplanet]

At least it will sound identical.

Ha! watch out! Them be fighting words to some on this thread!

[Gsnorgathon]

Well, that post *was* made on April 1st...

[Decimal]

Space and weight on shipping containers is a major factor in hitting a price point. I'm not surprised that they've had to scale-down the size as much as possible. Most people won't notice / care that much, plus the original has a lot of empty air inside (if you ignore the rats nest of cables..). Will be interesting to see what happens to used OG prices now that this seems as though it will happen. VCS3s are some of the most ridiculously over-priced synths on the market IMO. These were relatively cheaply-made, affordable synths in the 70s. Maybe the US export models were better constructed, but certainly the UK synths that I've used were flimsy and not very reliable.

If Behringer get this out for around £600, there will be a whole new generation of young Enos making wibbly noises out there.

[aquifer]

Space and weight on shipping containers is a major factor in hitting a price point. I'm not surprised that they've had to scale-down the size as much as possible. Most people won't notice / care that much, plus the original has a lot of empty air inside (if you ignore the rats nest of cables..). Will be interesting to see what happens to used OG prices now that this seems as though it will happen. VCS3s are some of the most ridiculously over-priced synths on the market IMO. These were relatively cheaply-made, affordable synths in the 70s. Maybe the US export models were better constructed, but certainly the UK synths that I've used were flimsy and not very reliable.

If Behringer get this out for around £600, there will be a whole new generation of young Enos making wibbly noises out there.

Yes, the EMS's were built to a certain price point at the time, but they are not flimsy and are reliable if they're serviced and maintained - just like any other vintage instrument. I agree that present prices are astronomical, but none of the B re-issues have really affected the prices of vintage models. Different market.

[GGW]

I've been waiting to see how this one turns out. I've seen one in person and, yes, it's a rat's nest of point to point wiring, but the case is still oversized. With the current electronic components and assembly, this would be a time when some downsizing would be a great design choice.

[ersatzplanet]

...(if you ignore the rats nest of cables..)...

The three units I had definitely didn't have a "rats nest of cables". I don't know if you think that phrase means the same as I do. To me a rats nest of cable means a mess of cables with no order. The EMS units I had came with immaculate cable runs, all wire tied together in VERY neat bunches and all with heat shrunk ends. An incredible amount of hand labor. The VCS3 I had did have a lot of space inside, but was designed as a studio instrument (the "S" in the name) and the ergonomic spacing was matching that. The AKSs I had were much tighter (and still had the immaculate wiring harnesses) in the panel layouts, fitting all in the VCS3 into one panel.
I have to agree with you about the pricing. I bought mine in 1975 used for $500 each and even counting inflation, that still is less than $2.7k today.

[Chopper]

I have to agree with you about the pricing. I bought mine in 1975 used for $500 each and even counting inflation, that still is less than $2.7k today.

I bought my VCS3 ( in very good condition) for 290 pounds in 1995, London.
I found a AKS in the bin of a recording studio in paris, pins and all, a year before. case slightly damaged but working.

the VCS3 got stolen from the music school where I was working 6 months later.
the AKS was stolen from my studio a couple of years later.
I am pretty sure I wouldn't care about what happens to my Behringer clone....

[ersatzplanet]

I have to agree with you about the pricing. I bought mine in 1975 used for $500 each and even counting inflation, that still is less than $2.7k today.

I bought my VCS3 ( in very good condition) for 290 pounds in 1995, London.
I found a AKS in the bin of a recording studio in paris, pins and all, a year before. case slightly damaged but working.

the VCS3 got stolen from the music school where I was working 6 months later.
the AKS was stolen from my studio a couple of years later.
I am pretty sure I wouldn't care about what happens to my Behringer clone....

I sold or traded all three of mine a couple of decades later. For not much more than I bought them for. I moved on to a 4-voice and a couple of Pro-Ones. When I saw them sell for $10-$14K a while back I was sad, but then realized if I still had them, they would be beat-up like hell. I played them and toured with them. I used them a lot. I broke and replaced a lot of programming pins. Still the AKS was a wonderful machine. I can do a hell of a lot more with a 6Ux84HP Eurorack case that is not much bigger, but it was such a elegant package.

[deb76]

I would prefer to receive the blessing of at least 66% of the modular synth community in writing.

Having had and played with my EMS Synthi AKS for 14 years (1981 to 1995), I don't ask myself the question, as soon as it comes out, I take it. I rely on my experience of Behringer synths with which I reconstitute a Set-Up of hardware synths: 2 B2600, Model D, Neutron, Poly D and Deepmind 12. It will complement very well my two B2600 for experimental music. I also hope that this BVCS3 can be tuned on its three oscillators in frequency mode and to the nearest Hz and that its trapezoidal envelope is well respected. As for its smaller size, it doesn't bother me at all, quite the contrary, if the sound and its versatility are well respected for sonic explorations.

[doombient.music]

I am pretty sure I wouldn't care about what happens to my Behringer clone....

And that's exactly what they are good for: Disposable synths, and when they are broken you just go out and buy another one.

Nothing sentimental about them.

Stephen

[Lurker]

and as we all know, if there's anything this planet needs at this time its more disposable goods!

well just get a new one if we fuck this one up, no need to be sentimental

[aquifer]

Behringer don't seem to me to be any more disposable than any other synth brand. SMT boards notwithstanding, they're easy enough to open up and check. Why do you think people would just chuck them out rather than get them repaired? I'd be more concerned about landfills crammed with last year's smart phones and over 40 years of Casio and Yamaha home keyboards, to be honest.

[ersatzplanet]

Behringer don't seem to me to be any more disposable than any other synth brand. SMT boards notwithstanding, they're easy enough to open up and check. Why do you think people would just chuck them out rather than get them repaired? I'd be more concerned about landfills crammed with last year's smart phones and over 40 years of Casio and Yamaha home keyboards, to be honest.

For most low cost consumer items, the "repair" is a full replacement. Depending on the cost and design of the BVCS, it may be a whole board swap. Repair technicians have to be paid a very low wage to make troubleshooting and repair a viable option. It is almost always cheaper to swap out the PCBs which can be quite cheap at the volumes that they are making them.

[KSS]

Behringer don't seem to me to be any more disposable than any other synth brand. SMT boards notwithstanding, they're easy enough to open up and check. Why do you think people would just chuck them out rather than get them repaired? I'd be more concerned about landfills crammed with last year's smart phones and over 40 years of Casio and Yamaha home keyboards, to be honest.

It's the mindset of cheap goods. As ersatzplanet says.

It's not that the synth itself is bad or worse than another -as behringer *does* get some parts of what they do pretty right. Comparing Behringer PCBs and components only reveals a couple few things compared to more expensive brands. Bare copper -AKA unplated or HASL, etc- lack of solder mask, minimal solder, low end components. <--This last may not matter to function, but can have affect on longevity. Things like cheap trimmers also affect longevity.

The B pots are for sure not as good as others use. The jacks seem to be holding up and the switches -so far- seem to be on a par with other similar products.

Besides these observable and now documented differences across many of Behringers new releases in the synth arena compared to others, the build quality is not much different and in some ways even superior to others. They are mechanically very sound and seem to be well designed from this standpoint.
The packaging and support docs don't seem to be out of line with the pricing and offer what one needs to know to use the product.

Overall, Behringer does a good job hitting their target market with products that fit their -and their customers- goals.

But all of this still comes back to how you treat something based on what it cost you, and what it will cost to repair or replace. And in that realm, Behringer are indeed -mostly- throwaway priced. Just like the last years smart phones, Casios and cheapYamahas.

There is one more factor here that can't be ignored. Behringer may have a three year warranty, but reports of their failure to address warranty issues are growing as more B products hit the open market. Coming back to what ersatzplanet correctly stated, if you can't get good warranty service from the maker, you're entering a financially 'upside-down' situation. Where personal value often *does* trump the reality for synths of vintage or low volume reasons. Where owners do go ahead and pay for repair rather than toss.

But for typical Behringer 'commodity' items, this doesn't make sense at all. People know this, and that's the answer to your question of why people just chuck them -like the Yamahas, Casios, old smartphones. A subtlety to this is that there's no sense of scarcity which might work to preserve these items. Leaving price and quality out of it, would a person be more likely to throw away an EDP Wasp or a B model D?

[doombient.music]

and as we all know, if there's anything this planet needs at this time its more disposable goods!

well just get a new one if we fuck this one up, no need to be sentimental

Don't tell me, tell those who start drooling as soon as the B-word-thou-shalt-not-speak is dropped somewhere on the internet.

Stephen

[Chopper]

deleted.

[Chopper]

I am pretty sure I wouldn't care about what happens to my Behringer clone....

And that's exactly what they are good for: Disposable synths, and when they are broken you just go out and buy another one.

Nothing sentimental about them.

Stephen

you have this ability to misquote people on this forum in a way I've never seen before.

Don't tell me, tell those who start drooling as soon as the B-word-thou-shalt-not-speak is dropped somewhere on the internet.

but then again, the desire to have every single thread about Behringer products relegated to the Main Behringer thread by hammering the same old witch hunt in order to display the ego and wit of the average Behringer basher who not only doesn't get the irony of their double standard, but most importantly doesn't understand that most people don't ''start drooling'' when Behringer is mentioned. you see, most people treat them like any other company. because that's what they are.
B. bashers, having threads and post disappearing because of your pseudo vendettas is getting tedious. if you can't see the irony of typing your nonsense on a device made by companies way worse than Behringer then I believe you've got some serious issues here.

[Lurker]

yes, apparently you also know my opinions on smartphones now too! what a strawman, this is a synthesizer forum, not a smartphone forum, i dont own one because i love the device, i own one because we live in a society in which youre fucked without one, my company expects me to own one lol

i take issue with all behemoth companies and see capitalism as the reason our planet is literally dieing and future generations are fucked beyond belief

but not listing every company i take issue with or listing my personal beliefs regardless how off topic and not allowed makes taking issue with behringer somehow ironic?

all that whole the irony of you showing up in every behringer thread to fuel the fire and show how much you dislike behringer bashers escapes you?

[Nightly Closures]

Psst, while we’re pointing things out… This is a thread for the berhinger vcs3 clone thing not the berhinger whinefest; that thread beckons you all.

[rrowley]

[/quote]
Beyond case, I wonder if the modder community is going to offer any "upgrades" to the signal path. For most of B's offerings it would be a waste of money over buying what is cloneable with better options, but beyond the SYNTRX (which itself is an inspired design but not a "clone") nobody's out there producing anything like this at scale.
[/quote]

VCS3's /VCS300 and expanders in production here

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdAovu ... wtA/videos

[Chopper]

all that whole the irony of you showing up in every behringer thread to fuel the fire and show how much you dislike behringer bashers escapes you?

do I ? really?
anyway, thanks for making my point. I am sure GearSpace loves you.