Behringer VCS3

[cnicht]

If the matrix has been buffered it may be possible to inject into the matrix but signals may be inverted.

The matrix is definitely not buffered. To do that correctly, you would need a connection for every cross-point and not horizontal and vertical busses like their matrix does.

As far as injecting into the matrix, with the correct pins with wires on them, this should be possible. Level matching will be a bitch though. If they made it like the original, there are NO input attenuation in the modules, only output attenuation. The signals injected would have to be level controlled outside the matrix.

The matrix can be buffered, there are mods already out there to do this http://www.hinton-instruments.co.uk/ems ... ended.html

[jfloftin]

I guess it depends on what year your "original" was made. My first VCS3 and my two AKS's bought in the late 70's and early 80's, were works of art inside. All wiring was cable wrapped and routed perfectly. All solder joints had heat shrink on them. The things were VERY labor intensive. I am sure that these new Behringer ones are all PCB mounted parts and edges connectors and ribbon cables. I doubt that there is very much hand wiring at all in them.

ALL of this that @ersatzplanet says above is absolutely true. This is part of why it takes Robin Wood of EMS Cornwall so long to build a VCS3/Synthi 'A'. Also, it is why the originals and brand new ones made by EMS are so costly today. What EMS is doing now is a cottage industry in my opinion. The complaints about the long wait time to purchase a VCS3 is now solved. It is looking like if you want one fairly quickly, just buy a Behringer VCS3 (once they are in production that is). I don't see the Behringer VCS3 coming out anytime soon. I may be wrong but we'll just have to wait and see.

[RickKleffel]

Does this Matrix come with both Red and Blue pills?

[Red Electric Rainbow]

Does this Matrix come with both Red and Blue pills?

[3hands]

Does this Matrix come with both Red and Blue pills?

You take the blue pill, you wake up back at home, still on the VCS3 list, and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, and I show you just how cheap the VCS3 can be.

Sorry I couldn’t resist.

[deb76]

Just gone on FB. Is it me or is there no CV/gate inputs?
I'll be out if that's the case.

it´s aint that kind of party

And no, there is no CV and gate on the Ems VCS3, and that's fine when you see what this synthesizer can do, it's a machine for sound exploration. We start from a sequence and we explore, we modify it from the matrix. But you can also add audio and process it, it's a real sonic sound machine.

[Chopper]

Having used the VCS3 at the old Electronic Music Studio at Morley Collage in London whilst attend an Electro Acoustic composition course I have fond memories (which are probably cloudy) of this synth. If Behringer get it at least 80% sound wise i will get one for sure.

Long story short, that was my VCS3 originally....

That is very cool. Morley had two VCS3’s (maybe three) plus some of the standalone EMS units. Man I loved going there one evening a week, it was also where I discovered Metasynth.

Funny story: my VCS3 was on loan there in the 90's. But it got stolen. It was during the days where those could be found in skips anyway because hey, no MIDI, monophonic, can't do multitimbral orchestral realistic pianos on them, and so on... Anyway, the College gave me a Wavestation and Roland D550 as a payback. Thanks god they didn't give me one of their multiple DX11s... At the time, the Wavestation was a god given synth and it was a brilliant opportunity and got what was the best out of a terrible situation. Needless to say, I wish they wouldn't have my VCS3 stolen nowadays....

[dubonaire]

Poor Asian forests. :(

well avoid eating anything with palm oil in it then. that is what is destroying asian forests. having a viable economic use for sustainably grown tropical woods is not the problem for asian forests.

rubber trees are not in any way native to malaysian forests...

Rubberwood is offered for free because a rubber tree has an economic life of about 32 years. But now plantation holders are looking at getting a return from biomass energy.

[sduck]

Whatever they choose the build quality cant as horrendous as the original units. Mains wiring with wire as thin as it's possible to solder onto, poorly constructed case, cheap ass multiturn pot adapters...

Yeah, I wonder how many people think they are proper multi-turn pots when in fact they are just cheapo pots with a multi-turn knob on them.

The original Synthi's all used vernier knobs and not multi-turn pots. It is all up to the type of pot used - plastic or carbon.

Graham Hinton has a page with lots of VCS3 mods - http://www.hinton-instruments.co.uk/ems/emsmods.html - it's kind of the bible of EMS mods. One of the mods he documents is adding proper multi-turn pots to these - on the essential modifications page.

I have one of those old multi turn vernier dials here, leftover from that build several years ago. Getting these things mounted and working correctly is not easy. The good news is that there's some room for slop - although the front dial takes 3 turns to go through the whole range, the part in the back, that you attach the pot to, only does 1/2 turn, instead of the whole range of the pot. You then adjust for discrepancies in which parts of the pot rotation are used in calibration.

IMG_3138.JPG

IMG_3139.jpg

[KSS]

^ And it shouldn't be considered a cheap solution to use a vernier drive on a pot.
The Oberheim SEM also used them. A different style but similar planetary drive.

As Ersatzplanet pointed out the cheapness of the pot itself has much to do with the results.

And of course the cheapness of the vernier's planetary drive elements. A good quality planetary verneier drive on a quality pot is a joy to use. Thers is nothing cheap about it at all. <--Including its cost.

[Norgatron]

Oh, and apparently they have a deal with Robin...

Do you have a source for that, Chopper?
I’ve seen that they are working with a top modder (Hinton??) but no mention of Robin.

[KSS]

I'd be beyond surprised to hear that Hinton was in any way involved with Behringer. Far more likely would be Derek Revell or one of the other VCS3 cloners.

As i keep saying, Behringer only appears to clone originals. They nearly always are cloning somebodys already cloned item. <--Please don't feel the need to re-hash this in this thread. I only share it here as support of why Derek or one of the others is more likely than Mr Hinton.

[Norgatron]

Fine. I was more interested in the Robin Wood thing anyway.

[ix]

Oh, and apparently they have a deal with Robin...

Do you have a source for that, Chopper?
I’ve seen that they are working with a top modder (Hinton??) but no mention of Robin.

I would be surprised if they were working with Robin as the Behringer clone is called a Vcs3 ? yet the Ems product is called a Vcs3 ? that makes no sense for Ems to agree to that , I would think if a deal was made it would require the Behringer ' vcs3 ' being called something different as these are 2 different products in many ways ? My guess was that Behringer are not working with Ems and thats why they named it a Vcs3 and also this adds to the sales angle and dream they sell which is that its an actual Vcs3 your getting ( with totally different circuit design and components ) , different circuit design in particular .I find it very odd they call its a Vcs3 but did not directly clone the circuits or components , how can it be a Vcs3 ? its an approximation or fake ? its not a clone , not a copy , but they call its a Vcs3 . I cannot see Robin being happy with that or a redesign of the synth he owns the rights to build and sell or have them name their product a vcs3 but i still hope he made a deal as it shows some ethics are occurring where in the past there has just been plain old theft really.( mackie etc )

I would have thought the first thing Behringer would have done was announce its Ems licensed for more credibility , they tend to announce collaborations early to give projects some gravity or merit.This would win them support from the non believers or some , maybe its going to be a surprise or used later to null dissent in the ranks which the tribal leader really dislikes .

The modder my guess depends on whether Ems signed a deal or not , and could be one of 2 or 3 people maybe.

[papz]

There's no license deal or agreement or whatever with EMS.

[dubonaire]

Oh, and apparently they have a deal with Robin...

Do you have a source for that, Chopper?
I’ve seen that they are working with a top modder (Hinton??) but no mention of Robin.

I would be surprised if they were working with Robin as the Behringer clone is called a Vcs3 ? yet the Ems product is called a Vcs3 ? that makes no sense for Ems to agree to that , I would think if a deal was made it would require the Behringer ' vcs3 ' being called something different as these are 2 different products in many ways ? My guess was that Behringer are not working with Ems and thats why they named it a Vcs3 and also this adds to the sales angle and dream they sell which is that its an actual Vcs3 your getting ( with totally different circuit design and components ) , different circuit design in particular .I find it very odd they call its a Vcs3 but did not directly clone the circuits or components , how can it be a Vcs3 ? its an approximation or fake ? its not a clone , not a copy , but they call its a Vcs3 . I cannot see Robin being happy with that or a redesign of the synth he owns the rights to build and sell or have them name their product a vcs3 but i still hope he made a deal as it shows some ethics are occurring where in the past there has just been plain old theft really.( mackie etc )

I would have thought the first thing Behringer would have done was announce its Ems licensed for more credibility , they tend to announce collaborations early to give projects some gravity or merit.This would win them support from the non believers or some , maybe its going to be a surprise or used later to null dissent in the ranks which the tribal leader really dislikes .

The modder my guess depends on whether Ems signed a deal or not , and could be one of 2 or 3 people maybe.

I've said this before, it's a simulacrum. Behringer is selling symbols. It's fascinating.

[anselmi]

I bet they are using a way more stable oscillator core, like the 3340 or something easier to keep in tune, and then some waveshaping circuits to get the output closer to the final oscillator waves of the VCS-3. Why bother to add MIDI/USB in a hard to control synth?
Then just cloned the filter and other parts that are not so critical to keep stable.
If it is the case then it wouldn´t be so different to the Syntrx
They should name it VCS-4

[chriscarter]

Has anyone else noticed how the scale of the BVCS3 looks off compared to an actual EMS VCS3?
It's difficult to gauge the size of it without any reference points but either those knobs are really big or the cabinet is pretty small... compared to an original.

VCS3x2.jpg

[tIB]

Has anyone else noticed how the scale of the BVCS3 looks off compared to an actual EMS VCS3?
It's difficult to gauge the size of it without any reference points but either those knobs are really big or the cabinet is pretty small... compared to an original.

VCS3x2.jpg

Assume it will be smaller like their Moog thing is.

[kons]

Post Removed : Only extensively footnoted and sourced facts are allowed on muffwiggler.

[cnicht]

Has anyone scaled its dimensions from the rear panel sockets?

[cnicht]

My guess it’s 12* wide plus case thickness

[KSS]

they went with a DSP-verb cos an acoustic spring was beyond their abilities (within a price bracket-not an inhouse component) but they heard the criticism and have added that ability now.

Do you have a source or reference for this?

[Chopper]

The manual mentions a blue revision clone with real spring. Don't have a link to it but it was mentioned on Gearslutz. Not that it gives it any credibility at all...

[Chopper]

https://www.gearspace.com/board/electro ... e-110.html