Is 5U A Dying Format?

[coyoteous]

hsosdrum:

What's going on here?

I leave for a page or two, and all y'all done lost all y'all's minds.

Don't make me have to come over there (and/or break out the drummer jokes).

- Baritone Saxophonist and lay spokesperson/director of outreach/enforcer for The Union of Baritone Saxophonists of America (TUBAS) Local 666

(post 999)

[Ranxerox]

This thread is annoying. 5U/MU is not a dying format, and the question itself is fatuous. It has been growing consistently since the early 2000s, just not as rapidly as Euro.

While most of the companies selling in 5U/MU ten years ago are still around, there have also been several new entrants over that time and the ecosphere is more diverse now than ever.

The innovation point doesn't stick either - there are literally hundreds of modules to choose from now, compared with 30-odd in the original Moog stable, and maybe 80 or so when it was just Dotcom and Synthtech.

Sure, there are more advanced digital modules in Euro. But not everyone wants to go menu-diving and button-pushing on their modular, or worry about 'firmware updates'. And 80% of any format's user base are going to wrestle with basic patching concepts, let alone the 'innovative and sophisticated' stuff (won't stop them from buying it of course...)

People have their reasons to go with any format, and are due their preference - especially if it leads to more good music getting made. But this isn't the tech industry, and none of us are Gartner.

[dubonaire]

I don't understand why you find the thread annoying. If you look at the number of posts in each format on muffwiggler you would see 5U forum has 1/8th as many posts as Euro. It might not be dead, but it's arguable that it's almost fringe now. I think you'd be missing something if you tried to argue it was the dominant format.

Also, it seems plenty of people are happy to go menu diving.

[ranix]

5U forum has 1/8th as many posts as Euro

87% of posts on the euro forum are about whether or not someone needs a maths

[notmiserlouagain]

...you would see 5U forum has 1/8th as many posts as Euro. It might not be dead, but it's arguable that it's almost fringe now.

Well that´s one of the things I like about the 5u forum.

I think you'd be missing something if you tried to argue it was the dominant format.

Did he?

Also, it seems plenty of people are happy to go menu diving.

And plenty not, what´s the point?

[Shledge]

It's choice though - you can easily avoid menu diving if you wish. You see people still go for "pure" eurorack systems eg. pure doepfer/AS. I had a "pure" system myself until just over a year ago.

But you see the same options on 5U - you can get digital modules and modules that need menu diving. People are also converting euro modules to 5U.

[lootacow]

I just bought 8 modules in 5u. Want to buy more. Contemplation selling a portion of my euro because I love the quality of the 5u stuff. Once I'm able to sell my Virus TI, that money will go toward more of the 5u stuff.

[chaosick]

chaosick:

We're forum friends now... but, RDJ vs. Miles?

(can't even believe I just wrote that)

Come on, man... that's just not right.

hehe. Ok, Miles is definitely the winner, but they are 2 of my biggest influences..completing the pyramid with Paco de Lucia and John McLaughlin on another axis. As far as "pure" electronic music goes, there is no one like RDJ to me. I do think he is one of the only people creating some truly memorable works that will stand the test of time decades from now, in the same way the jazz pioneers did on their instruments.

[JohnLRice]

I just bought 8 modules in 5u. Want to buy more. Contemplation selling a portion of my euro because I love the quality of the 5u stuff. Once I'm able to sell my Virus TI, that money will go toward more of the 5u stuff.

Too bad certain greedy 5U bastards just want to hoard their 5U and not make a trade for your nice Virus TI!

[dubonaire]

5U forum has 1/8th as many posts as Euro

87% of posts on the euro forum are about whether or not someone needs a maths

Yeah I'll pay that. There is a lot of dross, but that also probably shows the take-up.

[dubonaire]

I think you'd be missing something if you tried to argue it was the dominant format.

Did he?

Also, it seems plenty of people are happy to go menu diving.

And plenty not, what´s the point?

Maybe he didn't. That was just an expression.

That's exactly the point. The point is the existence of digital menu-diving modules is not a relevant argument for or against anything.

I'm not for or against any format. I think to be for or against a format is self-limiting. I chose Euro for the reasons I gave. When I retire and settle into my house in the country, which is not that far off, I may get a 5U system. I would also like a Buchla system, but I feel I have the functionality now in Euro and that would just be buying the object as an object.

Oh to be clear I also I don't think the 5U format is dying.

[Shledge]

On the contrary, eurorack may "die" in the sense that the format as we know it will be vastly different to what it is now. There are already designs to make digitally routed modulars.

[SynthBaron]

There are already designs to make digitally routed modulars.

With the remarkable advancement in DSP/CPU-based module offerings in the last few years that work wonderfully well, I have no desire to use anything analog at all besides perhaps filters at this point. Something like a bunch of paid modules in the future in VCV Rack and a few external analog modules sounds great to me.

[Paradigm X]

5U forum has 1/8th as many posts as Euro

87% of posts on the euro forum are about whether or not someone needs a maths

Yeah I'll pay that. There is a lot of dross, but that also probably shows the take-up.

the other 13% are people saying they've blown a module by plugging it in backwards....

[dubonaire]

the other 13% are people saying they've blown Clouds by plugging it in backwards....

Fixed.

[Shledge]

Clouds into rings too

[hsosdrum]

hsosdrum:

What's going on here?

I leave for a page or two, and all y'all done lost all y'all's minds.

Don't make me have to come over there (and/or break out the drummer jokes).

- Baritone Saxophonist and lay spokesperson/director of outreach/enforcer for The Union of Baritone Saxophonists of America (TUBAS) Local 666

(post 999)

Nothing personal, Coyoteous, but them big saxophones with all those keys just don't look very player-friendly to me. I look at a Les Paul plugged into a Marshall amp and think "Boy, would I like to get my hands on that!" I look at the panel graphics for just about any MakeNoise Eurorack module and think "Man, what a pain-in-the-ass it must be to figure out what the fuck that thing does", which is also my gut reaction when I see a baritone or bass saxophone (also a contrabassoon, for that matter). They just look intimidatingly complicated to me.

And please, let's skip all those tired old drummer jokes. I've been hearing 'em all since you were just a youngin'. (Unless you're an old fart like me, in which case I owe it to you to cut you some slack. )

[chaosick]

hsosdrum:

What's going on here?

I leave for a page or two, and all y'all done lost all y'all's minds.

Don't make me have to come over there (and/or break out the drummer jokes).

- Baritone Saxophonist and lay spokesperson/director of outreach/enforcer for The Union of Baritone Saxophonists of America (TUBAS) Local 666

(post 999)

Nothing personal, Coyoteous, but them big saxophones with all those keys just don't look very player-friendly to me. I look at a Les Paul plugged into a Marshall amp and think "Boy, would I like to get my hands on that!" I look at the panel graphics for just about any MakeNoise Eurorack module and think "Man, what a pain-in-the-ass it must be to figure out what the fuck that thing does", which is also my gut reaction when I see a baritone or bass saxophone (also a contrabassoon, for that matter). They just look intimidatingly complicated to me.

And please, let's skip all those tired old drummer jokes. I've been hearing 'em all since you were just a youngin'. (Unless you're an old fart like me, in which case I owe it to you to cut you some slack. )

Speaking as a classical/flamenco guitarist, when I see a fancy electric guitar/amp combo like that, I think "that's nice, but it's not really a guitar."
I've played electric guitars, from time to time..the main thing that strikes me is how much like cheating it feels

[hsosdrum]

Speaking as a classical/flamenco guitarist, when I see a fancy electric guitar/amp combo like that, I think "that's nice, but it's not really a guitar."

I've played electric guitars, from time to time..the main thing that strikes me is how much like cheating it feels

Being a drummer who only plays acoustic drums, I often catch myself feeling the same as you about the difference between the acoustic and electronic versions of my instrument. But then I remind myself that electronic drums are a completely different musical instrument from (and not a substitute for*) acoustic drums, just as an electric guitar is a completely different musical instrument from (and not a substitute for) a nylon-string guitar.

*I realize that electronic drums are frequently used as a substitute for acoustic drums, which is simply caused by laziness. A shame, too, because the music always suffers for it.

[chaosick]

Speaking as a classical/flamenco guitarist, when I see a fancy electric guitar/amp combo like that, I think "that's nice, but it's not really a guitar."

I've played electric guitars, from time to time..the main thing that strikes me is how much like cheating it feels

Being a drummer who only plays acoustic drums, I often catch myself feeling the same as you about the difference between the acoustic and electronic versions of my instrument. But then I remind myself that electronic drums are a completely different musical instrument from (and not a substitute for*) acoustic drums, just as an electric guitar is a completely different musical instrument from (and not a substitute for) a nylon-string guitar.

*I realize that electronic drums are frequently used as a substitute for acoustic drums, which is simply caused by laziness. A shame, too, because the music always suffers for it.

Agreed, yes. I've owned a bunch of drum modules and drum machines and there's always something limiting and annoying about most of them. Really, it would be superior to have a real drummer playing in time with me and have multiple mics all over the drums, if not for the logistics of it!
The classical Indian music tradition is sublime. I love listening to great tablas players; to me they do more with 2 drums then most western drum players do with big drum sets. I studied a little bit of it a long time ago. My teacher once said as a "basic practice" he would practice one rhythm about 2000 times a day and then do another one about 3000 times..about 6 hours right there.

[ranix]

Speaking as a classical/flamenco guitarist, when I see a fancy electric guitar/amp combo like that, I think "that's nice, but it's not really a guitar."
I've played electric guitars, from time to time..the main thing that strikes me is how much like cheating it feels

haha that's probably your background in electronic music and synthesis talking, a lot of electric guitar players could spend half a lifetime chasing sounds that you could probably teach them to make in seconds if they knew how to ask

[chaosick]

Speaking as a classical/flamenco guitarist, when I see a fancy electric guitar/amp combo like that, I think "that's nice, but it's not really a guitar."
I've played electric guitars, from time to time..the main thing that strikes me is how much like cheating it feels

haha that's probably your background in electronic music and synthesis talking, a lot of electric guitar players could spend half a lifetime chasing sounds that you could probably teach them to make in seconds if they knew how to ask

That's probably true although I wasn't even thinking about that angle of it..I meant more from my background in acoustic guitar--you can achieve screaming volume and all manner of piercing effects even if you have fairly sloppy technique, whereas if you played like that on an acoustic it would just sound really lame, because you actually have to be responsive to the feeling of the tone and the wood--all the amplification and tone bending you're goon get to do has to emanate from the thing you're holding, not a speaker 10 feet away! Always makes me cringe what passes for a great guitar player in much of the world--Paco de Lucia blew away pretty much alll of them.

[Bob Borries]

That's like saying the piano is a dying format.

[JohnLRice]

That's like saying the piano is a dying format.

Pianos? Big, heavy, expensive and only make one sound!

And what about the flute? Less expensive and more portable than a piano but also only one sound and only one note at a time!

They should all be burned and melted down since no musician in their right mind would attempt to make any worthwhile music with them!

[J3RK]

That's like saying the piano is a dying format.

Pianos? Big, heavy, expensive and only make one sound!

And what about the flute? Less expensive and more portable than a piano but also only one sound and only one note at a time!

They should all be burned and melted down since no musician in their right mind would attempt to make any worthwhile music with them!

You bring up a very good point. I want a flute that can play chords and I want it NOW!! The PolyFlute!




Disclaimer: I don't play the flute. However, maybe I would if there was one that could play chords.