Big decision - new oscillator

[phase ghost]

I'd recommend checking out the possibilities you get with the Piston Honda.

Not a bad suggestion. I have a Piston Honda (MKI) and a Shapeshifter. They overlap very little.

Although they're pretty hard to come by, I have to recommend the Cwejman VCO-6. PWM'd saws. Also, maybe the Doepfer A-110-4 thru zero VCO?

[Soy Sos]

Pittsburgh Modular
Double Helix

[pyjamarama]

Besides, I reckon the whole "complex" thing is a bit of a swizz

curious about your point of view here. care to elaborate?

[cptnal]

Wow! You guys... I'm overwhelmed. I have some serious homework to do.

With respect to pyjamarama's query (and I'll probably make a lot of enemies by saying this) I don't hear much coming from these things, which are basically two oscillators in the same box, that I can't do with my two simple oscillators and the occasional flavour from outside. I tried the DPO for a while and was all "meh", so I guess that put me off.

Let the bun fight begin...

[matttech]

+1 on Loquelic and wmd pdo

[mookmoof]

These were mentioned already separately but the verbos complex oscillator and verbos harmonic oscillator both sound great I think

[clusterchord]

i love complex oscilators. perhaps you shouldn't judge all by DPO only. maybe its character wasn't for you. also everything possible with such setup isn't quite immediately apparent. of the current crop of analogs these sound best to me:

Endorphin FG
Verbos HO and CO

on digital end:

Hertz Donut and Piston Honda MK2
Synthtech E350 and 352

HD is a digital complex oscillator pair with internal modulation bus, with some special tricks in tracking, and thru zero fm. Piston a wavetable oscillator and waveshaper. both are moderately dirtier character with obvious digital sheen (that i like). Synthtech are cleaner, smoother end of the spectrum. yet to try LI but demos seems tad over the top with harsh glitch for my taste.

[starthief]

From the limited amount that I played with a DPO, as FM gets more intense it just sort of turns to inharmonic mush. Some nice textures in it perhaps, but not as much to my liking as the Hertz Donut.

FM on the Donut is more "DX7 with knobs" -- it can have that glassy and super-clean harmonic quality, and yet with digital grit, sines that alias, and some really weird waveshaping. Totally capable of getting harsh but it can be nicely smooth too.

A Furthrrr Generator with the Strong Zero Core chip can probably get into similar territory, but I haven't heard that much about them.

[dubonaire]

FM on the Donut is more "DX7 with knobs" -- it can have that glassy and super-clean harmonic quality, and yet with digital grit, sines that alias, and some really weird waveshaping. Totally capable of getting harsh but it can be nicely smooth too.

I'd love to see a demo of that. Most demos of Harvestman/Industrial Electronics stuff I've seen seem to be made by people who have absolutely no interest in making music.

[starthief]

I'd love to see a demo of that. Most demos of Harvestman/Industrial Electronics stuff I've seen seem to be made by people who have absolutely no interest in making music.

I don't have video, but some things I've done recently:

Bamboo Between: the first voice is Hertz Donut through Natural Gate (and glitching on an FX send with Permut8 and SpecOps VSTs). Second voice that comes in at about 0:57 is Kermit. 0-Coast comes in about 2:51.

Octobe: first voice is Hertz Donut, then it's joined by E352, then Mysteron, then Thorn (VST), then Microbrute.

Standard Measure: first voice is Hertz Donut in more of an obvious FM role (the pitch CV is multed into the primary oscillator, and through a delay to the modulator). Then Mangrove, 0-Coast and E352.

Command String: first voice is Hertz Donut primary osc FM'd by Mangrove, mixed with Donut XOR output (with the mod osc sync'd to Mangrove's square). 0-Coast and E352 later.

I really tend to use Donut as an FM synth more than a harsh noise machine.

[zengomi]

OK. Complex oscillator duet.

Left side: Loquelic Iteritas
Right side: Benjolin

Lots of hand wiggling, including live patching.

[Erbe-Verb not used. Reverb courtesy of Eventide H3000.]

https://soundcloud.com/zengomi/big-top-collapse

[lisa]

There's no doubt they are both excellent, but I can totally understand why someone would prefer Elements over Rings because, well I do

But it's not about preferring one over the other. cptnal says that one of them is boring ("yawn") and that the other one is a contender. That doesn't make great sense.

[wsy]

I have a tELHARMONIC; it's relegated to second rack.... very conventional. I'll trade it to you for something interesting.

I tried a Mysteron. If you like resonators, IMHO Rings is better (I have one and don't want to sell it).

I have a Synchrodyne. Twitchy. Quirky. Needs external modulations, but then it really shines. Worth considering,
especially if you have the space and the coin for the Expander as well.

I have a Loquelic Iteratas. I like it a lot. Not For Sale Although you may want to go with the new Loquelic Iteratas Perdicio,
which includes a normalled ADSR/VCA right in the same module so it's really a _voice_, not just a nice gnarly VCO. I'd get one
myself but I'm waiting for wallet recovery after an Easel Aux Expander. :-)

I have a Hertz Donut Mk II. It's second rack, not bad, but if you didn't gel with the DPO it's kinda similar. It's not a clone, it has more than one
internal mod bus, but ... well, it's a Harvestman version of a DPO; it can do TZFM but only on the internal modulation path, not via the jacks.
Try one if you can before buying, see if it works for you.

An Aperture (double filter) is interesting and has a nice twitchy growl; it tracks acceptably as a VCO.

You might want to consider a Radio Music (microSD card player) - there's a microSD loadout that turns it into a
chord organ, which is kinda nice. 1V/octave and all that....

Finally, more modulation is always good. Get a Brain Seed or a Turing Machine with a Volts if you don't have one.

And a Maths. You need more Maths. Maths is the unacknowledged love-child of Eurorack design and Serge genius.

- Bill

[starthief]

it can do TZFM but only on the internal modulation path, not via the jacks.

I was going to argue with that, but then I noticed that the FM depth on the jacks is about half what it is on the mod bus.

Internally or externally, Donut is the "roundest" sounding linear FM oscillator I have, but also noisy (which is why it reminds me of the DX7). I love its character.

Rings' FM mode seems rougher to me.

E352's 2-Op FM is super-clean but not very deep -- a little dull with sines but well-suited to more complex wavetables.

Hopefully in a few days I'll have an E370 again. When I beta tested it there was a bug with linear TZFM that I was concentrating on and I didn't really dig into its character, other than to note that its depth is extreme at the highest of three settings.

[Sandrine]

SDS_VCO! 3HP, built in Env generator & VCA, 16 waveforms (3 custom), 1V/oct & quant/scales https://www.modulargrid.net/e/sds-digital-sds-vco

[cptnal]

Well, folks. Thanks again for all your recommendations. I checked out most of them. There were some way over budget which I dared not look at for fear I would have to have them. Lots of recommendations for Harvestman stuff, but I find the sound too grainy in parts for my taste. (Note, Harvestman fans, I'm over-simplifying for the sake of brevity.)

And thanks to wsy for shaking me out of my Telharmonic fixation. It was still the front runner for a while until his post. I went back to the videos and thought, "yeah... A bit samey."

But long story short, matttech zeroed in on what I was after and both his recommendations tickled me greatly. The WMD looks like it needs the expander to really shine, which puts it out of the running for now. I may come back to that...

But the one that really shone was the Loquelic Iteritas, which he just happens to have in stock

Look out for an order, matttech...

(P.S. I said a few weeks, didn't I? Dang GAS!)

[matttech]

Glad to be of service!

Already shipped. Thanks for that

I think you'll enjoy it....

[matttech]

The pdo is also worth keeping in mind for future as it really is quite something. You're right when you say that you need the triple bipolar vca to make it really shine, but that can also be used on its own if desired as a separate voltage controlled mixer or three bipolar vcas in their own right.

... And you don't need to disconnect it from the main module to do that either

[pitri]

But the one that really shone was the Loquelic Iteritas, which he just happens to have in stock

Look out for an order, matttech...

(P.S. I said a few weeks, didn't I? Dang GAS!)

you did good

[hyena]

well, my two cents:
i think that the otherness you are looking for will never be found in a single vco , whatever the type.
the otherness comes out always from patching. experimenting with modulations, with modulating the modulations and all that.

also, i have a very soft spot for "dual complex" vcos (have dpo, donut mk1 and mk2) and after more than three years they continue to amaze me. the internal bus idea is genius (thanks don buchla) and messing with internal and external modulations, with a lot of care for attenuation and exploring with patience every possible nuance is what can really make them shine. am, fm, wavefolding, shaping, phase mod, soft and hard sync....quite a lot to fiddle with...

[hyena]

double post sorry

[Dr. Sketch-n-Etch]

"Big decision" -- "serious homework" -- wow! You make it sound like so much work!

[cptnal]

"Big decision" -- "serious homework" -- wow! You make it sound like so much work!

Due diligence, my friend. It's only work if you don't enjoy it

[Tumulishroomaroom]

Loquelic is an excellent choice, the only downside is you're going to want the Cursus Iteritas as well, and soon at that.

[Karabekian]

I'm leaning towards ditching Braids and picking up a Shapeshifter when funds clear.