I apologize to anyone in this thread I may have offended , I realize I have know idea what I'm talking about , I was just hypnotize by the New Moog Model 15 .
I'm sure you understand , I heard it and felt like I was on crack .
So glad there are many great 5U users and manufacturers here sharing knowledge . Respect to Synthesizers.com , Moon Modular , Mos-Lab ,
Club of the Knobs , Synth-Werk , Moog and so many others .
And a special thanks to John L Rice JLR your passion for modular is so clear and present on this forum and your music .
And Roger from Synthesizers.com for giving a free Master Class on modular with your tutorial videos with your great reasonably priced modules .
Thanks for sharing
Is Moog Model 15 worth it , why ?
Hello!
I may be too late on the reply... but...
I do have a Two Voices Pro too, and a Voyager RME with extensions...
Two years ago, I was on a Sci-fi Video Game project for which I was looking to find/create the most unique, bold, retro, action electronic score. Blade Runner and Tron Legacy were some of the references and I tried a lot of synths... I was speaking with Bruce Duncan from Modcan (Daft Punk used Modcan on Tron) but he wasn't able to produce the synth...
Then a local dealer brought the Model 15 at the studio...
We took the day to compare Oscillators, Filters, Mixer and VCAs to SEM, Voyager, Prophet 6, Roland System 101, Jupiter 6, Nord Lead 2,5U Dotcom, Eurorack Doepfer, Kilpatrick, Studio Electronic, Synthtech, Modcan (Euro) etc etc, every single synth we could find in the studio... well the Model 15 just made outstanding sounds and deliver best audio attitude in every parts!!!
And most importantly, it gave us that reference quality sound we used to listen in every good records we loved.
My colleague and I instantly bought two Model 15.
Then, two years later, there isn't a single day I don't use the Model 15 on my projects.
I love the sound, the feel of the instrument, and although it is Modular synth...it is a one single synth, incredibly well designed for what it is.
BUT!!!
I agree with a lot of thoughts on this forum... the Model 15 is from another time, and expensive fo its fanciness!
It is what it is and you won't be dissappointed if you're looking for this.
To me ,I could compare it to an old vintage Porsche and a lot of my friends love them for the nostalgia of it. But it doesn't smell good (gaz), it is hard to drive and doesn't track the road really well... but the appeal comes over all the little negative points.
In the case of the Model 15, why Moog didn't add a midi to cv module (as they did with the Model D), why still put those old obsolete Switch-trigger???
I really respect the fact that Moog did replicated them exactly as they were. Although these are real 2018 flaws, it gives us the real experience of new-old instrument.
But as 2018, I couldn't say there isn't better options.
Recently I started to think to expand the Model 15 and found Moon to fit my needs. I wasn't looking for a Moog clone as I own the Model 15. But was looking for modules that would make me use the Model 15 as part of a 2018 studio.
For the last two years, I was using the Voyager expansions and the Two Voices Pro Midi to CV capabilities to make the Model 15 "speaks" to Pro Tools.
I was earlier interested by COTK but the more I red on 5U, the more Moon became the answer to complete the Model 15.
First I needed HP filters... I went for the amazing 505 and 517. I bought Moon 525 CP mixer to add more complexe filtered sounds.
Then a week ago I received the 501D+501E, 502 VCAs, 511D and started to add more voices to the Model 15. I will add in the future some sequencers and modulations to multiply my possibilities..
Then I realized this week how MUCH the Moon 501D was really great and compatible in sound quality and attitude with the 921s. The sine, triangle, and pulse are the identical (or really really close)! I think there are more harmonics in the saw wave (Moon) then in the Moog (which isn't bad). And with 10V p/p (Moon) instead of 1.3 V p/p (Moog), you get a lot more gut and punchy attitude if needed.
The Moon 501D with the 517 is an outstanding combo. It almost kills the 921s/904 combo in a mix. The extension in the frequency range is really large and I feel all the Moon voice to be MUCH MORE Hi-Fi than the Moog one. It has headroom and air in it. The Moog has this "muddier" vintage tone that we love for what it is, but if I'm looking for the absolute sound, I'll go now for Moon. For the first time since I have the Moog, I can say there is something else in the studio that is as outstanding as the Moog.
I'm speaking precisely about the sound quality here.
I said the Moog is that old vintage Porsche everyone is dreaming about from his childhood. The Moon is the new one, completely electric and for the 2018 reality/needs but with keeping the heritage of the old one.
Another good comparison:
Two years ago, for that same video game project, I was trying some good Preamps, we compared Neve vs a lot of other brands, and I finally chose Shadow Hills Industries golden age preamps in the Equinox. It sounded more Hi-Fi and complete to me compared to the Neve (lovely, but a little muddy) sound. Everyone will say they will have chosen Neve... but the moment you want the really high end pristine sound quality, you see the issue here. And I'm not talking about "cold" vs "warm" sound here. Moon and Moog... as Shadow Hills and Neve have tons of TONE!!! I'm talking about the air, the way the sound will find his place in a mix, the way the sound will be 3D and takes place.
The Moon breathes compared to the Moog.
I'm REALLY happy to have both voices (Moon and Moog). It's like having best of two worlds.
I would definitely buy again Moog in the first place for all the pleasure it gives me playing with it. And it also gave me a good idea of Bob Moog inner thinking of Modular Synth...It is an historical experience working with this instrument everyday. I have to think out of my 2018 conceptual thinking of making music.
For instance, having a lot of eq plugins in Protools, I wouldn't have bought a filter bank if I made module by module a modular synth by my own... So having a complete well thought system is a major positive point for the Model 15. And I'm still making my Moon system based on this particular experience I have with my Model 15.
The Model 15 Cp mixer is unique and sounds amazing if you want his los headroom/distortion/compressed sound. Not having al the headroom the Moon mixer has, your instinct is to drive it as hell to get a gutty sound... and some really "accidental" really good experiences happen when you reamp the output of the VCA into the mixer (as in the Model D overdrive). I don't feel the Moon is made to deliver that kind of "harshness".
Also, the CP mixer is based on the older I-II-III (c and p) Moog mixer, having less headroom than the System 35 and 55 CP3A. It gives the 921 a special "exclusive" gritty quality.
I think the more it will go, the more I'll use the Moon as my main modular synth, and adding the Moog to it when I need the specific vintage sound.
So... to answer some of your earlier questions:
"Do you think it's worth the the price ? "
Absolutely!!!
"Do you think it will hold it's value ? "
Not at all, you can already find on Ebay or Reverb.com some used Model 15, less expensive.
"Or is it a waste of big bucks ? "
If you're looking for the vintage experience, go for it!!
"I'm thinking about selling some gear and saving for one .
My main goal is to make great sounding music . "
In this case, go for Moon! More complete sound, more headroom, and more bold!
I hope it helps!
Cheers!
Sam
I may be too late on the reply... but...
I do have a Two Voices Pro too, and a Voyager RME with extensions...
Two years ago, I was on a Sci-fi Video Game project for which I was looking to find/create the most unique, bold, retro, action electronic score. Blade Runner and Tron Legacy were some of the references and I tried a lot of synths... I was speaking with Bruce Duncan from Modcan (Daft Punk used Modcan on Tron) but he wasn't able to produce the synth...
Then a local dealer brought the Model 15 at the studio...
We took the day to compare Oscillators, Filters, Mixer and VCAs to SEM, Voyager, Prophet 6, Roland System 101, Jupiter 6, Nord Lead 2,5U Dotcom, Eurorack Doepfer, Kilpatrick, Studio Electronic, Synthtech, Modcan (Euro) etc etc, every single synth we could find in the studio... well the Model 15 just made outstanding sounds and deliver best audio attitude in every parts!!!
And most importantly, it gave us that reference quality sound we used to listen in every good records we loved.
My colleague and I instantly bought two Model 15.
Then, two years later, there isn't a single day I don't use the Model 15 on my projects.
I love the sound, the feel of the instrument, and although it is Modular synth...it is a one single synth, incredibly well designed for what it is.
BUT!!!
I agree with a lot of thoughts on this forum... the Model 15 is from another time, and expensive fo its fanciness!
It is what it is and you won't be dissappointed if you're looking for this.
To me ,I could compare it to an old vintage Porsche and a lot of my friends love them for the nostalgia of it. But it doesn't smell good (gaz), it is hard to drive and doesn't track the road really well... but the appeal comes over all the little negative points.
In the case of the Model 15, why Moog didn't add a midi to cv module (as they did with the Model D), why still put those old obsolete Switch-trigger???
I really respect the fact that Moog did replicated them exactly as they were. Although these are real 2018 flaws, it gives us the real experience of new-old instrument.
But as 2018, I couldn't say there isn't better options.
Recently I started to think to expand the Model 15 and found Moon to fit my needs. I wasn't looking for a Moog clone as I own the Model 15. But was looking for modules that would make me use the Model 15 as part of a 2018 studio.
For the last two years, I was using the Voyager expansions and the Two Voices Pro Midi to CV capabilities to make the Model 15 "speaks" to Pro Tools.
I was earlier interested by COTK but the more I red on 5U, the more Moon became the answer to complete the Model 15.
First I needed HP filters... I went for the amazing 505 and 517. I bought Moon 525 CP mixer to add more complexe filtered sounds.
Then a week ago I received the 501D+501E, 502 VCAs, 511D and started to add more voices to the Model 15. I will add in the future some sequencers and modulations to multiply my possibilities..
Then I realized this week how MUCH the Moon 501D was really great and compatible in sound quality and attitude with the 921s. The sine, triangle, and pulse are the identical (or really really close)! I think there are more harmonics in the saw wave (Moon) then in the Moog (which isn't bad). And with 10V p/p (Moon) instead of 1.3 V p/p (Moog), you get a lot more gut and punchy attitude if needed.
The Moon 501D with the 517 is an outstanding combo. It almost kills the 921s/904 combo in a mix. The extension in the frequency range is really large and I feel all the Moon voice to be MUCH MORE Hi-Fi than the Moog one. It has headroom and air in it. The Moog has this "muddier" vintage tone that we love for what it is, but if I'm looking for the absolute sound, I'll go now for Moon. For the first time since I have the Moog, I can say there is something else in the studio that is as outstanding as the Moog.
I'm speaking precisely about the sound quality here.
I said the Moog is that old vintage Porsche everyone is dreaming about from his childhood. The Moon is the new one, completely electric and for the 2018 reality/needs but with keeping the heritage of the old one.
Another good comparison:
Two years ago, for that same video game project, I was trying some good Preamps, we compared Neve vs a lot of other brands, and I finally chose Shadow Hills Industries golden age preamps in the Equinox. It sounded more Hi-Fi and complete to me compared to the Neve (lovely, but a little muddy) sound. Everyone will say they will have chosen Neve... but the moment you want the really high end pristine sound quality, you see the issue here. And I'm not talking about "cold" vs "warm" sound here. Moon and Moog... as Shadow Hills and Neve have tons of TONE!!! I'm talking about the air, the way the sound will find his place in a mix, the way the sound will be 3D and takes place.
The Moon breathes compared to the Moog.
I'm REALLY happy to have both voices (Moon and Moog). It's like having best of two worlds.
I would definitely buy again Moog in the first place for all the pleasure it gives me playing with it. And it also gave me a good idea of Bob Moog inner thinking of Modular Synth...It is an historical experience working with this instrument everyday. I have to think out of my 2018 conceptual thinking of making music.
For instance, having a lot of eq plugins in Protools, I wouldn't have bought a filter bank if I made module by module a modular synth by my own... So having a complete well thought system is a major positive point for the Model 15. And I'm still making my Moon system based on this particular experience I have with my Model 15.
The Model 15 Cp mixer is unique and sounds amazing if you want his los headroom/distortion/compressed sound. Not having al the headroom the Moon mixer has, your instinct is to drive it as hell to get a gutty sound... and some really "accidental" really good experiences happen when you reamp the output of the VCA into the mixer (as in the Model D overdrive). I don't feel the Moon is made to deliver that kind of "harshness".
Also, the CP mixer is based on the older I-II-III (c and p) Moog mixer, having less headroom than the System 35 and 55 CP3A. It gives the 921 a special "exclusive" gritty quality.
I think the more it will go, the more I'll use the Moon as my main modular synth, and adding the Moog to it when I need the specific vintage sound.
So... to answer some of your earlier questions:
"Do you think it's worth the the price ? "
Absolutely!!!
"Do you think it will hold it's value ? "
Not at all, you can already find on Ebay or Reverb.com some used Model 15, less expensive.
"Or is it a waste of big bucks ? "
If you're looking for the vintage experience, go for it!!
"I'm thinking about selling some gear and saving for one .
My main goal is to make great sounding music . "
In this case, go for Moon! More complete sound, more headroom, and more bold!
I hope it helps!
Cheers!
Sam
Great first post! 
Pretty much the best first post I've seen on here for a while.
Laflamme
Laflamme
- Gives opinion based on actually using the product
Pays own money to back up opinion
Discusses benefits of retro vs. new on synth forum, doesn't offend anyone.
Makes me want a model 15 AND a Moon Modular!
Yes the 101 is amazing! But for me, it's my one (or two) trick pony... I mean it's still only one VCO, really basic lfo, the filter is really cool for Punchy noise percs, and of course is one of the best synth for bass lines. But overall, to me, it doesn't have the depth the Model 15 (or Moon) has.josaka wrote:I have tested the roland system 101 vs quite a few modular oscillators.. they are pretty much identical.. the 101 Square is better than most..
hamildad wrote:Pretty much the best first post I've seen on here for a while.
Laflamme
Take a banana sir , you've earned it!
- Gives opinion based on actually using the product
Pays own money to back up opinion
Discusses benefits of retro vs. new on synth forum, doesn't offend anyone.
Makes me want a model 15 AND a Moon Modular!
Thanks
Actually we're all very passionate about those topics and at the end we're all looking for the "holy grail" tool that will help us making great music. There are some really generous people out there (Hello John L Rice) and they helped me to make the right decision... I simply think it's my turn to give back! Cheers
As the game isn't released yet, Non Disclosure Agreement forces me to not tell more about that project, unfortunately. But I though it was relevant to put in context why I chose the Moog...ppkstat wrote:Which game was that?Laflamme wrote:a Sci-fi Video Game project for which I was looking to find/create the most unique, bold, retro, action electronic score.
Oh and welcome
I meant 1 oscillator vs 1 oscillator.. its impossible to compare 3 vs 1.. add in modular routing .. replace the 3 moog osc with 101 osc and the difference will be minimal..Laflamme wrote:Yes the 101 is amazing! But for me, it's my one (or two) trick pony... I mean it's still only one VCO, really basic lfo, the filter is really cool for Punchy noise percs, and of course is one of the best synth for bass lines. But overall, to me, it doesn't have the depth the Model 15 (or Moon) has.josaka wrote:I have tested the roland system 101 vs quite a few modular oscillators.. they are pretty much identical.. the 101 Square is better than most..
I was going to do a osc battle at some point.. but busy busy.
I meant 1 oscillator vs 1 oscillator.. its impossible to compare 3 vs 1.. add in modular routing .. replace the 3 moog osc with 101 osc and the difference will be minimal..
I was going to do a osc battle at some point.. but busy busy.[/quote]
Absolutely agree with you on this! And in fact, that the beauty of those machines... There are complete system relying on every parts blended together.
The Model 15 isn't a Model 15 anymore if you remove the CP3, the 902, the Switch Triggers...etc... And the System 101 and the Model 15 are fantastic because they were designed this way. I can believe why the experience of a System 35 might be so different than a 55... not just because of the 960... but all the utilities aren't the same. I do love the 923 module on the Model 15 and the System 35... it might lack this on a 55... the 6db filters aren't working the same way...
And Roland System 101 is all about efficiency and it's awesome for its "right to the point" attitude. Cheers!
I was going to do a osc battle at some point.. but busy busy.[/quote]
Absolutely agree with you on this!
And in fact, that the beauty of those machines... There are complete system relying on every parts blended together.The Model 15 isn't a Model 15 anymore if you remove the CP3, the 902, the Switch Triggers...etc... And the System 101 and the Model 15 are fantastic because they were designed this way. I can believe why the experience of a System 35 might be so different than a 55... not just because of the 960... but all the utilities aren't the same. I do love the 923 module on the Model 15 and the System 35... it might lack this on a 55... the 6db filters aren't working the same way...
And Roland System 101 is all about efficiency and it's awesome for its "right to the point" attitude. Cheers!
Here is a 6 min improvisation (with really bad playing...sorry) I just did to show Moog Model 15 and Moon Modular Voice.
https://soundcloud.com/samuellaflamme/m ... me/s-splrm
Moog (LEFT):
-3 X VCOs 921B/921
-Cp3 (Model 15)
-904A
-Moog 911 EG
-Moog 902 VCA
Moon (RIGHT):
-2 X VCOs (501D+ 501E)
-525 M CP
-517 (24 db LOW PASS Filter)
-Moon 511D (eg)
-Moon 502 (VCA)
(Sorry for peaking when the Moon 511D makes the 517 explose near end...We hear a bit of saturation in either the Moon VCA or my Equinoxe Pre-amp).
EDIT: nope this saturation is the compression from Soundcloud
... my original file sounds clean... sorry for this.
https://soundcloud.com/samuellaflamme/m ... me/s-splrm
Moog (LEFT):
-3 X VCOs 921B/921
-Cp3 (Model 15)
-904A
-Moog 911 EG
-Moog 902 VCA
Moon (RIGHT):
-2 X VCOs (501D+ 501E)
-525 M CP
-517 (24 db LOW PASS Filter)
-Moon 511D (eg)
-Moon 502 (VCA)
(Sorry for peaking when the Moon 511D makes the 517 explose near end...We hear a bit of saturation in either the Moon VCA or my Equinoxe Pre-amp).
EDIT: nope this saturation is the compression from Soundcloud
... my original file sounds clean... sorry for this.
Last edited by Laflamme on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Another example of Moog (L) and Moon (R)... just a simple sequence...and playing with the filters... (904a and 517).
https://soundcloud.com/samuellaflamme/m ... eg/s-5t3xV
https://soundcloud.com/samuellaflamme/m ... eg/s-5t3xV
-
JohnLRice
Sweet sounds!Laflamme wrote:Here is a 6 min improvisation (with really bad playing...sorry) I just did to show Moog Model 15 and Moon Modular Voice.
https://soundcloud.com/samuellaflamme/m ... me/s-splrm
-
nikarga
- Wiggling with Experience
- Posts: 381
- Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:46 pm
- Location: London
- Contact:
For what its worth, I just took delivery of a new Model 15 - managed to find a retailer that had last stock.
I am very impressed. The sound is distinct and there are elements of the workflow that I prefer to the Model D which has a similarish setup.
The fixed filter bank sounds incredible.
This is my first foray into the 5U world and I must say, even though there are some well made Eurorack modules, this is just in a different league.
So I got some 3.5mm to CJ cables and hooked it up to my Cirklon to play the synth... I also threw in a basic beat on the Jomox Alpha Base... first few hours of fun and I love it already.
Away from the sound, its the experience that really amazed me. The presentation, legacy, build quality, brand and all equally contributing factors.
Was it worth the money? Absolutely.
Can you get equally sounding gear with a few enhancements for a much better price? Absolutely.
Does it really matter in the end? Nah- it is entirely subjective. As long as the user has a great experience..
http://soundcloud.com/nikarga/1a-1
I am very impressed. The sound is distinct and there are elements of the workflow that I prefer to the Model D which has a similarish setup.
The fixed filter bank sounds incredible.
This is my first foray into the 5U world and I must say, even though there are some well made Eurorack modules, this is just in a different league.
So I got some 3.5mm to CJ cables and hooked it up to my Cirklon to play the synth... I also threw in a basic beat on the Jomox Alpha Base... first few hours of fun and I love it already.
Away from the sound, its the experience that really amazed me. The presentation, legacy, build quality, brand and all equally contributing factors.
Was it worth the money? Absolutely.
Can you get equally sounding gear with a few enhancements for a much better price? Absolutely.
Does it really matter in the end? Nah- it is entirely subjective. As long as the user has a great experience..
http://soundcloud.com/nikarga/1a-1
Live for gear...
-
trentpmcd
- Wiggling with Experience
- Posts: 497
- Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:00 pm
- Location: NH
- Contact:
I haven't been participating much in this whole clone vs. reissue thing, but I do agree with this - it is subjective in the end. Do what makes you happy and don't worry if others think you spent too much money or that your brand X isn't as good as a brand M. We're all here to make music and how you interface with your instrument is a key part of that.nikarga wrote:
Away from the sound, its the experience that really amazed me. The presentation, legacy, build quality, brand and all equally contributing factors.
Was it worth the money? Absolutely.
Can you get equally sounding gear with a few enhancements for a much better price? Absolutely.
Does it really matter in the end? Nah- it is entirely subjective. As long as the user has a great experience..
Welcome to 5U land.