Is Moog Model 15 worth it , why ?

[dopefiend]

Right on, Cornutt. Wholeheartedly agree.

[DJFonzi]

While we're here, does anybody have opinions on tonewoods for guitars, and whether or not paper-in-oil caps are better than ceramic for my passive tone circuit?

[CZ Rider]

Yesterday this one sold on eBay for about 2/3 the cost of a new model 15 reissue.


Moog in Ashville has probably made more modular systems than the original Moog music did during the Norlin era. Those Norlin models 15. 35, and 55 were introduced in 1974, long after Moog's modular heyday. I would not be surprised if the production numbers were low. Probably not more than 30 system 55's and 35's each. And more than likely no more than 50 original model 15's produced. They seem to be one of the better clones out there. Too bad they do not sell individual modules. I'm sure though that anyone on this list could build a more accurate clone than any of offerings from the companies selling Moog clones.

I was the member that claimed tone was the reason I purchased a Moog system. After 10 years of playing a modular Moog it is still my main instrument. Still surprises me with the sounds that it produces. Still seems like the most unlimited instrument I have ever had the pleasure to play. And still puts a big ass smile on my face every time I sit in front of it. The first thing I turn on when I get home from work, and the last thing I turn off when I go to sleep. Can't ask for more than that. My holy grail that I searched for many years.

[Synthoholic]

CZ,
What's the 921 bank all about? Are those modusonics or original or what?

[EPTC]

Yesterday this one sold on eBay for about 2/3 the cost of a new model 15 reissue.

Well, context is also helpful here. Quoting the same auction:

This unit is in good working condition. A returned item that came back dirty and with a cigarette odor on it. Our tester cleaned up the unit pretty well but the cables and manual still have some signs of dirt and such. (link)

I would love a Model 15 myself but would steer clear of that, too, even at the discounted price. That's really unfortunate.

Interesting other points about the actual run numbers of original Model 15's! Thanks for that.

[ranix]

"dirty"

the cables "have signs of dirt"

is it really dirt? Why would you be unable to remove dirt

[josaka]

cigarette smoke turns into a brown gunk that is pretty hard to remove..
on wires is even more tricky.. the smell is disgusting..

[CZ Rider]

CZ,
What's the 921 bank all about? Are those modusonics or original or what?

Those are DIY made from actual Minimoog circuit boards I had laying around. I once read somewhere the Carlos modular had a similar Minimoog oscillator bank behind 921 panels. Was made from these parts.


I mounted the boards and Mini power supply on an aluminum frame.


Was able to tuck the whole assembly in the bottom of a DIY Moog P case behind the lower CP panels.


The DIY case was made with aluminum rails tapped for the 6-32 truss head machine screws to fasten the modules.

Need to get busy and finish the rest of the Minimoog modules for that cabinet.

[Synthoholic]

CZ
That's really cool. I asked because I spotted the toggle on the 921a and thought that might have been a modusonics panel. I sold mine which had the toggle and I didn't think that was something which too many people have seen.

They look great!

[Rally]

if I was 70 years old I would buy the Moog and I wouldn't even think twice about it

with the sweet-ass black keyboard too

On Twitter Noisebug posted:

Don't Miss our 15% off Memorial Day sale at our reverb store!
http://reverb.com/shop/noisebug
Enter MEMORIAL15 @ checkout!

I don't know if there are any restrictions but if you can get a Moog modular for that discount . . .might be a good time to buy?

Hi John, concerning the Moon Modular system. On YouTube, the NAMM 2017 video from the Moon Modular booth, you featured more than one complete system. I have seen only the 500-3P system being offered in the USA (a system I like), are you able to shed any light about any additional current offerings or any systems which may be available in the near future? Thanks

[JohnLRice]

if I was 70 years old I would buy the Moog and I wouldn't even think twice about it

with the sweet-ass black keyboard too

On Twitter Noisebug posted:

Don't Miss our 15% off Memorial Day sale at our reverb store!
http://reverb.com/shop/noisebug
Enter MEMORIAL15 @ checkout!

I don't know if there are any restrictions but if you can get a Moog modular for that discount . . .might be a good time to buy?

Hi John, concerning the Moon Modular system. On YouTube, the NAMM 2017 video from the Moon Modular booth, you featured more than one complete system. I have seen only the 500-3P system being offered in the USA (a system I like), are you able to shed any light about any additional current offerings or any systems which may be available in the near future? Thanks

Hi ,
At the 2017 NAMM the Moon 500-3P didn't even exist yet but I'm sure it will be featured at NAMM 2018
http://www.noisebug.net/site/effects/index.cfm?ID=730

I haven't heard about any new systems that will be offered at NAMM 2018 or anytime soon after and any modules that are going to be new at NAMM 2018 "that I'm reasonably sure" are going to be there have been announced in the past (517, CP stereo mixer).

BUT, I did read a vague hint of a tentative suggestion that something that I might think is really cool is possibly being worked on . . . .

[nikarga]

BUT, I did read a vague hint of a tentative suggestion that something that I might think is really cool is possibly being worked on . . . .

If you are talking Moog and had to guess its time for a sick poly or that prototype drum machine thingy... or Voyager 2... wouldnt think theyre going to announce any modular updates... isnt the IIIc shipping now anyway?

[EMwhite]

Moog is going to have to do something. I have no view of their balance sheet but considering the amount that they've brought on (marketing, R&D, manufacturing, artist relations, new facility and related costs, etc.) over the past years, the nature of their product releases running for a term then burning down is both a blessing and a curse.

They save $$ by not [still] manufacturing older products which are no longer selling (and instead sunset them, possibly ahead of their useful life, often leaving users stranded with promised code upgrades) but likewise leave retailers holding the bag to some extent with inventory and a revenue gap between new product releases.

So they must release for the next cycle and garner adequate hype-cycle to cause distributors to commit to pre-order qty. The Phatty was the first mass produced product of this type and they re-issued it many ways to Sunday with relatively low and consistent labor and heavy re-use across the subsequent (no pun) Phatty platforms and some components and assembly techniques even shared with the MP-201 and the Taurus III.

After a big bet on the biggest of the Voyagers (the XL) and every combination of special editions, they moved into the low-cost, high volume space with Mini-foogers and Minitaur which lead them into the Euro product(s) and the Engineering inspired low-cost platforms.

Now what?

Two choices: release something with absolute WoW factor in an already densely populated space (poly, drum etc), or trim costs and go into maintain mode for a year or two until they find the right time to strike.

Head scratcher

How many native/individually sold modules can they sell (if they decided to; cue 'individual module petition' highlight reel) before it became a support burden, something that they apparently are already struggling with. Squeeze some of this technology into proper Euro? (mounting and power standards already established = great reduction of support incidents). But how much interest exists for 'basic' modules when every bloody module imagined and unimagined has already been released. Maybe pack some of the old animoog wackiness into a module using DSPs?

Had Dave Smith not released his digital OSC coupled with analog filters and VCAs some years ago, I'm convinced that Moog would have done likewise but he beat them out of the gate and is on his Nth Poly by now.

With Model 15s going for 2/3s the current selling price, I'd suggest that at $10K, they are not worth it. Many of us (I'm one) feel that mine was worth it but I surely would have preferred buying a few years later for a large markdown.

Bigger platforms? IIIc? Anybody that wants one has already purchased. You don't exactly sell your pickup truck and buy that instead, but as the old adage (actual Moog advert) goes:

[Rally]

The truck / synth photo is thought provoking. At one time I bet the price of a Ford truck and Moog modular were comparable. Today full sized trucks are in excess of $40K making many synths a bargain.

Down here in the deep south of the USA where I reside, all trucks have one of two decals attached. Either a confederate flag or Moog. (Of course you realize my tongue is firmly planted in cheek)

[nikarga]

Moog is going to have to do something. I have no view of their balance sheet but considering the amount that they've brought on (marketing, R&D, manufacturing, artist relations, new facility and related costs, etc.) over the past years, the nature of their product releases running for a term then burning down is both a blessing and a curse.

They save $$ by not [still] manufacturing older products which are no longer selling (and instead sunset them, possibly ahead of their useful life, often leaving users stranded with promised code upgrades) but likewise leave retailers holding the bag to some extent with inventory and a revenue gap between new product releases.

So they must release for the next cycle and garner adequate hype-cycle to cause distributors to commit to pre-order qty. The Phatty was the first mass produced product of this type and they re-issued it many ways to Sunday with relatively low and consistent labor and heavy re-use across the subsequent (no pun) Phatty platforms and some components and assembly techniques even shared with the MP-201 and the Taurus III.

After a big bet on the biggest of the Voyagers (the XL) and every combination of special editions, they moved into the low-cost, high volume space with Mini-foogers and Minitaur which lead them into the Euro product(s) and the Engineering inspired low-cost platforms.

Now what?

Two choices: release something with absolute WoW factor in an already densely populated space (poly, drum etc), or trim costs and go into maintain mode for a year or two until they find the right time to strike.

Head scratcher

How many native/individually sold modules can they sell (if they decided to; cue 'individual module petition' highlight reel) before it became a support burden, something that they apparently are already struggling with. Squeeze some of this technology into proper Euro? (mounting and power standards already established = great reduction of support incidents). But how much interest exists for 'basic' modules when every bloody module imagined and unimagined has already been released. Maybe pack some of the old animoog wackiness into a module using DSPs?

Had Dave Smith not released his digital OSC coupled with analog filters and VCAs some years ago, I'm convinced that Moog would have done likewise but he beat them out of the gate and is on his Nth Poly by now.

With Model 15s going for 2/3s the current selling price, I'd suggest that at $10K, they are not worth it. Many of us (I'm one) feel that mine was worth it but I surely would have preferred buying a few years later for a large markdown.

Bigger platforms? IIIc? Anybody that wants one has already purchased. You don't exactly sell your pickup truck and buy that instead, but as the old adage (actual Moog advert) goes:

Very interesting observations, thank you for that. I have to agree.. and this is what leads me to believe by process of elimination that they cannot compete in the Eurorack space with the likes of AJH Synth who has already nailed both the sound and quality craftmanship of the basic vintage tone.

In the absence of Euro... perhaps release the drum prototype they showcased last year.. and this leaves us with what else????

I'm leaning with what you said earlier.. to WOW. I reckon in a few weeks we are going to see a poly beast that puts them back on the map, blows all the competition out of the water and kills the Modal 008s of the world. I just hope it doesn't cost $10k.

[nikarga]

Moog is going to have to do something. I have no view of their balance sheet but considering the amount that they've brought on (marketing, R&D, manufacturing, artist relations, new facility and related costs, etc.) over the past years, the nature of their product releases running for a term then burning down is both a blessing and a curse.

They save $$ by not [still] manufacturing older products which are no longer selling (and instead sunset them, possibly ahead of their useful life, often leaving users stranded with promised code upgrades) but likewise leave retailers holding the bag to some extent with inventory and a revenue gap between new product releases.

So they must release for the next cycle and garner adequate hype-cycle to cause distributors to commit to pre-order qty. The Phatty was the first mass produced product of this type and they re-issued it many ways to Sunday with relatively low and consistent labor and heavy re-use across the subsequent (no pun) Phatty platforms and some components and assembly techniques even shared with the MP-201 and the Taurus III.

After a big bet on the biggest of the Voyagers (the XL) and every combination of special editions, they moved into the low-cost, high volume space with Mini-foogers and Minitaur which lead them into the Euro product(s) and the Engineering inspired low-cost platforms.

Now what?

Two choices: release something with absolute WoW factor in an already densely populated space (poly, drum etc), or trim costs and go into maintain mode for a year or two until they find the right time to strike.

Head scratcher

How many native/individually sold modules can they sell (if they decided to; cue 'individual module petition' highlight reel) before it became a support burden, something that they apparently are already struggling with. Squeeze some of this technology into proper Euro? (mounting and power standards already established = great reduction of support incidents). But how much interest exists for 'basic' modules when every bloody module imagined and unimagined has already been released. Maybe pack some of the old animoog wackiness into a module using DSPs?

Had Dave Smith not released his digital OSC coupled with analog filters and VCAs some years ago, I'm convinced that Moog would have done likewise but he beat them out of the gate and is on his Nth Poly by now.

With Model 15s going for 2/3s the current selling price, I'd suggest that at $10K, they are not worth it. Many of us (I'm one) feel that mine was worth it but I surely would have preferred buying a few years later for a large markdown.

Bigger platforms? IIIc? Anybody that wants one has already purchased. You don't exactly sell your pickup truck and buy that instead, but as the old adage (actual Moog advert) goes:

Very interesting observations, thank you for that. I have to agree.. and this is what leads me to believe by process of elimination that they cannot compete in the Eurorack space with the likes of AJH Synth who has already nailed both the sound and quality craftmanship of the basic vintage tone.

In the absence of Euro... perhaps release the drum prototype they showcased last year.. and this leaves us with what else????

I'm leaning with what you said earlier.. to WOW. I reckon in a few weeks we are going to see a poly beast that puts them back on the map, blows all the competition out of the water and kills the Modal 008s of the world. I just hope it doesn't cost $10k.

[Mark11Audio]

BUT, I did read a vague hint of a tentative suggestion that something that I might think is really cool is possibly being worked on . . . .

If you are talking Moog and had to guess its time for a sick poly or that prototype drum machine thingy... or Voyager 2... wouldnt think theyre going to announce any modular updates... isnt the IIIc shipping now anyway?

I can confirm that neither Moog or DSI will be at NAMM 2018... which is very unusual for both companies who usually have a large floor spot/booth...

So it will be an interesting NAMM this year for sure... may be a very quiet one... LOL

[nikarga]

I can confirm that neither Moog or DSI will be at NAMM 2018... which is very unusual for both companies who usually have a large floor spot/booth...

So it will be an interesting NAMM this year for sure... may be a very quiet one... LOL

wow you are right, I dont see them on the website.. I still think Jan is Moog's month... lets see!

[nikarga]

Oh man, cant wait for that poly Moog ;-)

[spinach_pizza]

Why does the Moog ad feature a dotcom system?

but as the old adage (actual Moog advert) goes:

[dopefiend]

OK, so now that I have, again, been bit by the MU bug (used to own a massive MOTM system, then made the tragic error of selling it), and reading the afore posted discussions, I wonder if Moog Music will, at one point, choose to break off their massive (and painfully expensive) modular behemoths and start selling individual modules, in a way that they can be competitive with the somewhat-saturated clone market. For those jonesing for the real article, it would certainly be appealing, and it might be a prudent move, as an alternative to having these beasts gather dust, rust and mold at the factory or the dealerships. I dunno....

I certainly would love to find the individual modules for sale on line, and be ordering like a 5MU fool

[JohnLRice]

I certainly would love to find the individual modules for sale on line, and be ordering like a 5MU fool

While having it say Moog on the front panel is pretty sweet in my opinion, if you want to spend a lot less money and get something this year, take a look at the modules from one of the Moog clone manufacturers. They will look almost identical and arguably sound near to exactly identical.

Check out Synth-Werk, they seem to be the most accurate cloner of Moog modules:
http://www.synth-werk.com/

Also check out the great stuff from:
https://www.mos-lab.com/
http://www.cluboftheknobs.com/

[dopefiend]

I certainly would love to find the individual modules for sale on line, and be ordering like a 5MU fool

While having it say Moog on the front panel is pretty sweet in my opinion, if you want to spend a lot less money and get something this year, take a look at the modules from one of the Moog clone manufacturers. They will look almost identical and arguably sound near to exactly identical.

Check out Synth-Werk, they seem to be the most accurate cloner of Moog modules:
http://www.synth-werk.com/

Also check out the great stuff from:
https://www.mos-lab.com/
http://www.cluboftheknobs.com/

Thanks, man. Actually I already own a Mos-Lab System 15 and the new M500-3P system from Moon modular, and I’ve gotta say that, having played with real 1970’s Moog modulars, the Mos-Lab filter sounds essentially indistinguishable. What I think is, though: the way that most Moog Music products are being made available from so many different dealers would make them way more accessible than the current boutique ones. Two years ago I was interested in a COTK system, and actually put a small down payment, but Kazike was quite difficult to catch hold of by email, and the promised lead time was not met, so months later I cancelled my order. Sebastien is much better with communication, and his system is freaking monstrous (currently my top analog, to be honest), in fact, it’s so good I want to make my own system 55, but the necessary modules will take longer than I wish. Meanwhile you can log on to, say, Sweetwater Music and order Minimoog D’s, Subphatties, Mother 32’s etc....even the now-discontinued Voyagers. And that’s where my wishful thinking kicks in

[josaka]

I have the Synthwerk and the Mos-Lab .. the SW has a more round moogy tone.. but not by much.. the 921 full 2u osc sounds great as well(that triangle wave ! ooh).. the mos-lab 921 ABBB has a lot more options for creative sounds .. sync.. pwm take them into a different place.. but for straight up moog "tone" the SW are a bit fatter.. both are great.. and work well together..

[nikarga]

I can confirm that neither Moog or DSI will be at NAMM 2018... which is very unusual for both companies who usually have a large floor spot/booth...

So it will be an interesting NAMM this year for sure... may be a very quiet one... LOL

Hmmm... not EXACTLY true
Moog WILL be present

Moog House of Electronica

Bring on the MOOG POLY FLAGSHIP ALREADY