Is Moog Model 15 worth it , why ?

[nikarga]

Holy Radioactive Coyotes, Batman! I read this entire thread, hoping I would somehow have my tastes refined. No, what I got was a shit cake with crap frosting and shredded cat turd sprinkles.

[Analog Music]

QUOTABLE QUOTES: This was said by another member in this thread ... (quoting) "I thought I had answered the question quite well in just one word, TONE! I found the unique tone difficult to replicate without using those same circuits used in the old Moog systems." (end quote). Oh hell, if I had a dollar for every time I've heard that in guitar forums about this or that ~thing~, I'd have a lot of dollars! And if you don't agree, well then you just don't know what "GOOD TONE" is! And no one wants to be the outlander in a public forum, now do they! I find these types of statements to be psychological traps. All of the sheep sit in agreement mumbling "oh tone, yes yes, tone .. we must have tone, yes indeed, tone .... good tone is a must have, oh yes, tone". Like most folks even know what the hell the definition of "tone" is in that context. And if you speak up and say "well, what kind of tone" ... the mockery ensues. Haahaa! He doesn't even know what tone is! Haahaa! Like I said ... it's a trap. Disagree (with "tonal" recognition) and you must be a moron. And no one wants to be a moron.

What are you like 5 or is that you Roger .

This is what the Moog Model 15 TONE , thinks of your clone
4:43 to 5:00 enjoy
[video][/video]
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c8dbb08b-6 ... 130acdc953

I will admit I got a little defensive when one of the posters referred to the Moogs as having " a lot of Hype " too them ,and that his clone was the same or better than the Moog
so I just asked for some proof and I guess egos collided from there and I felt inclined to stand up for the Original legendary synth bran.
My post here are for fun as a Synth lover so relax .

Lastly, this is probably my favorite quote by Analog Music ... "I just prefer Originals not wannabe clones". That's just rich!

The only wannabe clone in this thread is Analog Music. Indeed.

I can't afford this synth , I am a dreamer and I search for dreams .

Your money? I'll repeat what you threw at a member I've come to respect .... "proof or it didn't happen". I want proof .... solid proof ... that YOU are the high caliber musician/producer that is actually artistically and technically worthy of owning a Model 15 clone. Yes, I called it a clone ... because it is. Bob Moog did not build it, it isn't made with the same components, and it isn't a classic Model 15. Clone.

Ok in all seriousness , watch this video from 1:08 to 2:05 and 5:25 to 6:08 this gentlemen explains it better than I ever could and it will answer all your questions . And then go have a beer and enjoy your synths , I'm sure there fantastic , sorry if I came off wrong but I'm not the only one .
[video][/video]

[noddyspuncture]

There's no magical fairy-dust sound effect coming from the Moog badge itself. So a decent clone system from the likes of Synthwerk is going to sound identical to an original Moog,

This is not the case - they might indeed sound "similar" but not "identical". To sound "identical" they would have to be built in "exactly" the same way, both electronically and physically, as Moog originally made them. ie: run off +12/-6 etc...

As far as I know none of the clones are built that way... there are many differences.

[josaka]

I am not 100% tom .. but I think the SW are built exactly the same way..

Gerhard does make kind of a big deal about it.. "Spirit of Trumansberg" and all that..

[josaka]

I will admit I got a little defensive when one of the posters referred to the Moogs as having " a lot of Hype " too them

Why..? you didn't design.build or have anything to do with them as far as can tell you dont even own any.. sums this whole thread up..

,and that his clone was the same or better than the Moog

Didn't see anyone say that their "clones" were better than Moog's "clones"

so I just asked for some proof and I guess egos collided

which was provided and dismissed even though it matched the criteria you offered ..no idea what egos you are talking about.. you are just rude,dismissive and come across like you don't know what you are talking about nothing personal..

[noddyspuncture]

I am not 100% tom .. but I think the SW are built exactly the same way..

Are there any good close-up photos of the SW modules... component and print sides..? Examining those would tell us...!

[josaka]

Like to add a small footnote.. I now own both the mos-lab 921 and Synth-werk 901 ABBB banks.. (which I didnt at the start of this thread!)

I don't know if they are as good as or phat or cutting or in your face as real old moogs.. but any demo I have tried to copy has been pretty straight forward to match the sounds(921) haven tried to copy any 901 sounds yet...
there are 2 youtube vids I may try as tests.. the benge 901 video and

[video][/video]

[josaka]

I am not 100% tom .. but I think the SW are built exactly the same way..

Are there any good close-up photos of the SW modules... component and print sides..? Examining those would tell us...!

I have seen close ups of the filterbank but dont recall any 901.. found this on the net..

https://www.keyboards.de/wp-content/upl ... 901AB2.jpg

[Skotchi]

I'm probably the (or a) poster child for this whole discussion: I have dabbled in the world of modular/semi-modular (0-Coast recently and MS-20 for years), and always had the dream of owning a Moog modular, so when I had a bit of a windfall recently, I went ahead and got a 15.

Of course, I found Muff Wiggler and have been lurking in the 5U forum for a little while, and in that time, I've learned about Mos, DotCom, COTK, etc. In the process, I figured out that I could have had essentially a System 35 for a bit less than what I paid for the 15.

If I had the opportunity to do it over again, I'd be a bit torn: yes, there is a romantic pull from the Moog name, but I'd *probably* have gone for a DotCom (especially considering I live in Austin and could have just driven up to Tyler TX). Of course, with something that complex, I probably wouldn't even know where to start :-)

In any case, I'm super-thrilled with having a 5U modular and it's a moot point now anyway.

[JohnLRice]

Wlcome to Muff's, Skotchi!

[Skotchi]

Thanks, John, very happy to be here!

[Analog Music]

If I had the opportunity to do it over again, I'd be a bit torn: yes, there is a romantic pull from the Moog name, but I'd *probably* have gone for a DotCom (especially considering I live in Austin and could have just driven up to Tyler

You can also buy a Ferrari 458 Italia Coupe for $230,000 or you can buy a replica Ferrari 458 for just $20,000 or you could buy 9 Honda Accords (2017 of course) for $230,000 , they all do the same thing right , is that your point ?

According to your logic everyone who bought the quickly discontinued reissue of the Moog Model D for $3500 bucks
( you know the one everyone cried that they wanted and couldn't get because used prices were to high then Moog reissued them and gave many a chance to have there dream synth ),
now your telling me that all of them should have just gotten 12 Behringer D clones for $300 a piece because they all do the same thing right , is that your point . Do us a favor and just stop it .
[video][/video]

The Moog will just go up in price and value as they start to be impossible to find , you did not just buy a wonderful synth you bought a piece of history , a piece of art , a piece of time and a piece of mind
because you will always be second guessing your self when you by a clone
and will just become part of the clone wars like the rest of the haters .
Not that the clones are bad there just not a Moog.
You should be very happy my friend and make a song to celabrate that wonderful Moog tone . O and Welcome to Muffs

[josaka]

the only "hater " here is actually you I think..

people here all love the moog stuff ..just think its not worth spending on a badge..

[ericD13]

According to your logic everyone who bought the quickly discontinued reissue of the Moog Model D for $3500 bucks
( you know the one everyone cried that they wanted and couldn't get because used prices were to high then Moog reissued them and gave many a chance to have there dream synth ),
now your telling me that all of them should have just gotten 12 Behringer D clones for $300 a piece because they all do the same thing right , is that your point . Do us a favor and just stop it .

Why stop it ?
Nobody says they should have.

I, among many others, prefer to get a Behringer D clone for 300 and keep the money for other stuff than get a Moog D clone for $3500.

But if you got deep pockets and gives lot of money for an item you don't want to play but tokeep in order to sell it in the future, go ahead. You surely will make some marketing people happy.

[Analog Music]

According to your logic everyone who bought the quickly discontinued reissue of the Moog Model D for $3500 bucks
( you know the one everyone cried that they wanted and couldn't get because used prices were to high then Moog reissued them and gave many a chance to have there dream synth ),
now your telling me that all of them should have just gotten 12 Behringer D clones for $300 a piece because they all do the same thing right , is that your point . Do us a favor and just stop it .

Why stop it ?
Nobody says they should have.

I, among many others, prefer to get a Behringer D clone for 300 and keep the money for other stuff than get a Moog D clone for $3500.

But if you got deep pockets and gives lot of money for an item you don't want to play but tokeep in order to sell it in the future, go ahead. You surely will make some marketing people happy.

You misunderstand me , I think the Behringer D is cool
but the point I'm trying to make is less for more is not always better ,
if you have the opportunity to get excellence
i.e. instead of getting an Original Moog I will get a ton of other stuff for much less .
Of course it's the end users choice and this is just my opinion .

[josaka]

You misunderstand me , I think the Behringer D is cool

the bit where you slated "clone " "wannabees" in about 10 posts .. yes..
that must be a misunderstanding..

quality internet skills.

[Rally]

Analog Music wrote:

"You misunderstand me , I think the Behringer D is cool
but the point I'm trying to make is less for more is not always better "


No one is going to argue that point, but you seem to have difficulty understanding other's belief that . . Less For More Is Sometimes Better.

[josaka]

but you seem to have difficulty understanding other's belief that . . Less For More Is Sometimes Better.

should that not read "more for less " ?

[Rally]

but you seem to have difficulty understanding other's belief that . . Less For More Is Sometimes Better.

should that not read "more for less " ?

Pay less get more . . .

This thread has been informative with the numerous suggestions of what is currently available in the 5U Format. A lot of wigglers with actual hands on experience with all the many units being offered.

[Rally]

but you seem to have difficulty understanding other's belief that . . Less For More Is Sometimes Better.

should that not read "more for less " ?

Pay less get more . . .

Sorry double post.

[nikarga]

The Moog will just go up in price and value as they start to be impossible to find

You have no idea what you are talking about.

In 1974 the Moog Modular 15 cost $4,000 new. When adjusted for inflation, this equates to spending $20,000 in today's value. 43 years later, you have the option to buy the Moog Model 15 new for half the price.

[Stereotactixxx]

Putting $4,000 in an index fund in 1974 would mean being a millionaire today.

[CZ Rider]

No one paid MSRP back in 1974. A Minimoog listed for something like $1195, but the street price they sold for was closer to $850.
I was looking at a model 12 in 1975 and the shop was asking $2500 and $2000 without the fixed filter bank. Still a lot of money. But usually about 40% of MSRP back in those days. There were not many authorized Moog dealers back then but Vibronic music near Philly sold them.

[dopefiend]

Interesting thread. I had contemplated getting a Model 15 myself, but chose the Mos-Lab instead, which will soon be delivered to me. I've been playing with knobby toys for almost 40 years now, and have come to realize that the subtle differences in "tone" among different brands are frequently too subtle for anyone to sort out in a blind test. I have a friend who owns a MosLab 15 and I tried it out recently....and found it quite great-sounding and of great build quality as well. Personally I think that the latest Moog Sub (Subsequent 37) has a growl to it that surpasses all the other currently-available Moog products, including the Voyagers, Model D reissue, Phatties and the modulars (I've listened to them all). I wanted a truly modular iteration, though, so finally decided the Mos will meet my needs. Whatever tonal nuances I perceive might be lacking in it that could otherwise be found in the real Moog-brand version, I think I can tweak with external processing. And the bottom line (which would also settle the arguments being posed in this thread) is that it will make me happy....which is, to me, the MOST IMPORTANT issue at stake. Everybody is free to purchase whatever they please, as long as they can afford it. It's a quirk that comes with being a passionate member of the electronic musical instrument subculture. I own a mint CS80, mint Waldorf Wave and mint Rhodes Chroma. How many Prophet Rev 2 do you think I could get with what I paid for these...? Don't ask. All I can tell you is, I'M VERY HAPPY. That, my friends, is what matters most.

Peace, y'all.

[cornutt]

And the bottom line (which would also settle the arguments being posed in this thread) is that it will make me happy....

This is a really important point. This is where I find the common analogy to performance cars to be flawed. Pretty much everyone agrees that the primary purpose of a performance car is to go fast. And going fast is something you can apply objective measures to: dyno horsepower, cornering G's, quarter-mile times, lap times, etc. People may disagree on exactly what characteristics of performance are most important (are you running an oval, road course, drag strip, or off-road?), but in all cases, going fast is the basic goal.

With modular synths (or any other musical instrument), there is no widespread agreement on what the most important performance characteristic is. And of the different characteristics that people might name, many of them don't have any easy way to objectively measure them. There are a few things you can do, like measure distortion in a VCO waveform or plot the frequency response of a VCA, but even then, people might not agree on what values are "good", and one individual might regard different values as "good" depending on what they are doing at the moment. Sometimes you want a really clean VCA, sometimes you want one that distorts or has weird resonance peaks. (Consider the eternal debate on whether or not it is desirable that a VCA self-oscillate at high resonance settings.)

What one should avoid in general is "what makes me happy is good, what makes you happy sucks". One does not get to justify their own choices under the banner of subjectivity, but then criticize when someone else makes different choices on the same basis. That's just hypocrisy.

For myself, I don't have any desire to own a vintage Moog. I admit that the mojo of the Moog name and the vintage exists. But I'd be perpetually concerned that I wasn't providing a sufficient museum-like environment for it, or that I was being too rough on the controls in the heat of the moment, or that too many cat noses were poking around inside of it, or whatever. And I'm not necessarily concerned about re-creating the Moog experience, because that's not what I got into this for. If you look over the selection of Moog modules, it's rather limited compared to what is available today; we have lots of things that Bob Moog couldn't have done because the technologies they use weren't available to him (or anyone else) in 1967. If owning a vintage Moog or re-creating the Moog experience is what turns your crank, that's great. I'm not criticizing it. But it's not what I set out to do, myself.