Newbie with 2500€ to spend on 9U - what to get?

[Rabid]

Set aside a little money to get utility modules. Once you start patching you'll realize how useful things like attenuators, multiples, VCAs, etc... can be.

Also consider checking the Buy & sell forum here. You can typically save 30% by buying used from other wigglers in your area.

Beat me to it. You need some basics. Multiples, voltage mixers, EG's, VCA's, etc... I usually watch Ebay or used for that stuff.

Can you give any suggestions on what that might be considering my budget*?

Funny thing is, the more I read and investigate, the harder it becomes to make desicions.. lol.. There's just so many possibilities and combinations.

*= 2500€ initially + feeding the monster with about 1500€/year.

First take a good look at the JP8000. Think about the layout, the sounds path, the ADSR's and LFO's, where you can route them and what they do to the sound.

Now think about the basic sound path for your modular synth. VCO > Filter > VCA. Put each of these into place and consider how you want to control them. There is trigger based such as an envelope generator, and modulation such as an LFO. So now you have 5 pieces; VCO, filter, VC Amp, LFO and ADSR as the most basic. If you want two VCO's then you need a way to mix audio. If you want both a EG and LFO to effect the amp then you need a way to mix CV. So then your list is VCO, VCA, Filter, LFO, ADSR, VC Mixer. If you want your keyboard to affect your VCO and VCF then you need a multiple, or a buffered multiple along with a MIDI interface.

So now that you have a long list of basics, chances are you can subtract a few. A dual VCO may have a mixer. Much of the higher end stuff has multiple CV inputs that may help you avoid the need of a CV mixer. It all depens on what you by. No wonder it can be so confusing.

While I consider the AFG a keeper it has 14 knobs, 4 switches and 19 jacks, for ONE osc. WITH NO MANUAL! Can you really take advantage of it on this budget? Maybe. I can have a lot of fun with only a AFG, Vulcan and quantizer. Oops. There is another thing. The quantizer. So consider two possibilities.

MIDI > VCO > Filter > VCA with eg's and lfo's

or something like

AFG > Filter > VCA > quantizer with a heavy duty modulation source.

Since you have the Roland you have a base of understanding. Do you want something like that with all the components but patchable and the ability to get crazy after adding a few more components? Or do you want to go streight to crazy and leave money to either evolve towards a standard structure when wanted or maybe get crazier?

If starting over, and like you having a keyboard synth to play with, I would take the second route. OSC > Filter, VCA with quantizer and heavy duty modulation. Then deside if you want to add a MIDI interface, sequencer, more basics, more crazy modules.

Check out the thread on best set up for drones for hints on getting a lot of action out of a couple modules.

OK. I'm done rambling. Time to hook my Voyager to my Eurorack and do things the Voyager cannot do.

[JJ]

Since you have the Roland you have a base of understanding. Do you want something like that with all the components but patchable and the ability to get crazy after adding a few more components? Or do you want to go streight to crazy and leave money to either evolve towards a standard structure when wanted or maybe get crazier?

Yeah, well hmmm... I want both!

Maybe these videos describe a bit better than words what I usually do when performing live with the band (all jp8000 here):

Bird like ambience:


A Digideridoo I programmed (JP x-mod mayhem):


Just regular slow big Filters:


... as you see and hear, my hands are not that much on the keys, as they are to busy the knobs... (feet too via expression pedal)

But I'm also after regular stuff like bass and leads (read: radio commercials = money), but with that analog purr and the slurping filters that I simply can't get with digital crap. I'm also looking forward to process external audio trough the modular, drums, guitar, speech, whatnot.

I'm not after the totally crazy bleep-blop mayhem, I like that analog dirt thou, but in a more traditional musical manner. Atleast for starters, who knows where the modular will take me!

I'd probably end up doing stuff in the likes of this:

[slowalan]

Not sure about starting too small...

I got a bssic 6u ASys case first..and glad I did..

I reckon you need the essentials first...eg two adsrs, two vcas, LFo two strong filters, smample and hold and noise, inverting buffered multiples, two good ocisllators for cross mod and fm, sync...with this you can make all the basic keyboard type synth sounds, and then some

It was easy to expand into modulars that way

Then add the weird modulators and do the things modulars are best at

I know that I have added another 15U of modules, bought and sold, built others, but I still have the asys core.

[knobgoblin]

I would say expressive controllers like the fsr4 and pressure points would be essential since you are playing with a band. Joysticks also work wonders. They may seem expensive and take up valuable hp in a small case when you are starting out, but they can transform a small system into a real instrument. Highly recommended if you want to actually play music, especially with others.

[JJ]

I would say expressive controllers like the fsr4 and pressure points would be essential since you are playing with a band. Joysticks also work wonders. They may seem expensive and take up valuable hp in a small case when you are starting out, but they can transform a small system into a real instrument. Highly recommended if you want to actually play music, especially with others.

Yes, I have been looking at these and I agree. I use the ribbon controller and an expression pedal on my JP-8000 extensively and they can control more than one parameter each. I will need to get some real-time control over more than two knobs at the time, but fortunately there are more than a few methods doing this..

How do you guys interface euro with an expression pedal (1/4" stereo TRS plug connection)?

[wetterberg]

I reckon you need the essentials first...eg two adsrs, two vcas, LFo two strong filters, smample and hold and noise, inverting buffered multiples, two good ocisllators for cross mod and fm, sync...

see, I reckon you touch on the crux of the matter here... that may be the "essentials" to you, but not to others.
I've got over 15U of eurorack, and I still haven't got a proper sample and hold or a simple noise source.

[johnnywoods]

I reckon you need the essentials first...eg two adsrs, two vcas, LFo two strong filters, smample and hold and noise, inverting buffered multiples, two good ocisllators for cross mod and fm, sync...

see, I reckon you touch on the crux of the matter here... that may be the "essentials" to you, but not to others.
I've got over 15U of eurorack, and I still haven't got a proper sample and hold or a simple noise source.

+100000

I'm also without a sample and hold, and I don't really think I miss one. I got an adsr when I first started out, but haven't touched it since. For me, AR's are way more suited to my style. I would also consider a wavefolder and LPG "essential". Not to mention a spring reverb and wogglebug.

This is an issue that has come up may times before: do you want to simulate with eurorack what a Moog Voyager can do better (and cheaper), or do you want to build a system to get all the things you can't find on more traditional synths? Most people, I think, are somewhere in between.

The whole point of going modular is to build "your" synth. Not the one that someone else thinks you need. To the OP: get the modules that get you excited, and fill in the blanks when you realize they are necessary.

[JJ]

OSCs

OSCs that seem to stand out for me (this week) are the RS95e, Wiard Anti-OSC and the AFG. Those of you that have this selection, can you give me any view on which 2 OSCs I should get first and why? What kind of a mixer would you suggest to go with these if I want to blend between waveforms? Any other OSC pair that you find as a very good tool to get most sounds out of?

Filters

From demos I have liked the SEM20, SY20 (MS-20) and the White knob Borg. Does that sound like 3 good filters to start out with? If not, which 3 filters (of all available mid-price filters) do you feel would give me the widest palette to work with?

VCA

I haven't found any comparisons or tests of amps, but I'd like a pretty open sounding amplification for my system. Any suggestions? is the Doepfer A132-3 ok? Can someone remember hearing a VCA comparison test?
I have done a lot of OpAmps tests when building guitar pedals, so I know how much a difference this section does to the overall sound of the rig.

ADSR

Has anyone conducted any test with different ADSRs? it would be interesting to hear some results. I was first looking at the MFB ADSR as it has hold, but after listening to some kraftzwerg demos on youtube and reading about them, the attack seems sluggish. I like a snappy attack. I don't think ADSR should cost astronomical sums. Hows the Doepfer Quad ADSR?

LFO

I need at least 2 LFOs to start with, just to modulate filters depths. But then I am wondering about what to modulate the possible AFG animations with. If I have understood correctly, the AFG doesn't animate by itself, it needs an input, right? I usually like my modulations, be it filters or whatever, to be in some kind of a sync. Should I get some kind of a divider to do this, or how would you suggest me to go about.. What I'm after is to have some kind of a master, or two master controls to control the "motions" of the sounds. Like 3/4 against 1/2 note LFOs and so on. I hope you get my point... I'd also like to be able to reset the LFOs. What are you using? I have been trying to look at LFOs, but then I could use some AD as LFO, but I rather ask for advice here.. and this leads to:

RYHMIC SECTION / SEQ

I'm not this will be in the first incarnation of my setup, but I want to add this asap. Can someone with more experience remember any good thread I could/should read about different methods of getting smart on this. I'm not really wondering about melody sequencing or drum sequencing, but more of ways to have clocks and dividers and such to control motion and filter in the waveforms and filters... I understand HOW it works, I'm wondering about what tools to choose.

[JJ]

I haven't found "my sound" in any Moog. I have tried several ones, but they are too pretty and smooth for me. If anything, I think a Roland SH-7 is something of a sound that I have liked of "traditional synths".

I think I need a good and wide "bread and butter" section first, capable OSC and filters, snappy ADSRs, and LFOs to bring motion into everything. Open clear VCAs.

Once that is clear in my head, then I can add S&H, ringmod and Maths and Sequencers to make things interesting on it's own. And a bit of dirt.

Then comes control surfaces, like joystics etc.

As for analog delays, analog phasers, spring reverb etc, I'm going to incorporate my guitar pedals and rack gear to begin with via external loop, mixer aux etc (+ plugins after recording)

[JJ]

Or am I still thinking too "square" about my modular synth? Just slap me hard if I need it!

[wetterberg]

How do you guys interface euro with an expression pedal (1/4" stereo TRS plug connection)?

http://www.doepfer.de/a1772.htm

[fredguy]

132-3 works fine for me as a vca with a qmmg as a second, vactrol based, option. As for adsr's I use both an a-140 and a maths and I find both to be very snappy. I am also waiting for reports on the doepfer quad vca as it looks like a great option if it's fast enough.

dave

[numan7]

I got an adsr when I first started out, but haven't touched it since. For me, AR's are way more suited to my style. I would also consider a wavefolder and LPG "essential". Not to mention a spring reverb and wogglebug.

This is an issue that has come up may times before: do you want to simulate with eurorack what a Moog Voyager can do better (and cheaper), or do you want to build a system to get all the things you can't find on more traditional synths? Most people, I think, are somewhere in between.

The whole point of going modular is to build "your" synth. Not the one that someone else thinks you need. To the OP: get the modules that get you excited, and fill in the blanks when you realize they are necessary.

++ on the ARs!! i have 4 envelators now, and yet cannot seem stop myself from dreaminf of more! otoh i still use ADSRs for some things; but half the time, i catch myself cranking S close to max, so essentially as AR's.

if op must have an adsr, I'd suggest something with cv in for controlling D and R with, say, a footswitch. asys rs-60 has this, is nice and snappy, but does occupy 12 spaces and would require the crossover cable in a dopefer case. fwiw...
excellent advice for noobs, wrt to not trying to clone the minimoog in modular format, btw!

[numan7]

of course, i would recommend taking a serious look at flight of harmony's choices joystick controller...