JH Living Vocoder [BUILD THREAD]

magman · Post by **magman** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:07 pm

Count me in for the capacitor buy please, 150 of each value.

For IC sockets, I have started using sockets from Toby Electronics.

Turned pin IC sockets.

I have always used turned pin sockets, but fro Rapid, Farnell and CPC in the past, but Ross Lamond put me on to Toby last year and I've had a few hundred sockets off them so far with no issues to report.

Regards

Magman

coon · Post by **coon** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:52 am

I'm interested in 150 of each as well.
Thanks

LektroiD · Post by **LektroiD** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:48 am

I'm thinking ahead to the wiring; I saw over on the EM thread that we might need one of these. Another group buy perhaps? I can't see these things being cheap singularly.

Also if anyone is drawing up a preliminary wiring diagram, please share with us. It would be nice to get our heads together to work out all the wiring options, pot values and switch types we might need.

papz · Post by **papz** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:08 am

Cheaper 20x20 621 matrices (witout LEDs) are available from Ghielmetti, but are not listed on the website.
Price is about €300 + shipping, VAT and import fees as Switzerland is not part of Shengen.
I 'm afraid their conditions for a group buy are not very interesting, here's what they replied when I asked a few years ago : "We offer 5% reduction on orders exceeding EUR 1'000.--."

LektroiD · Post by **LektroiD** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:11 am

papz wrote:Cheaper 20x20 621 matrices (witout LEDs) are available from Ghielmetti, but are not listed on the website.
Price is about €300 + shipping, VAT and import fees as Switzerland is not part of Shengen.
I 'm afraid their conditions for a group buy are not very interesting, here's what they replied when I asked a few years ago : "We offer 5% reduction on orders exceeding EUR 1'000.--."

That's one expensive part. I wonder if it's possible to DIY these things - a set of latching push switches on a matrix PCB, perhaps. or if we need to have these at all (maybe there is another way to wire this).

papz · Post by **papz** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:21 am

It won't be cheaper to DIY a good pin matrix (even without counting the time involved) and I doubt the best possible DIY solution will ever approach the comfort in use and top build quality of a Ghielmetti. These parts are worth this price. I prefer to avoid penny-tips in such an important project, of course this is just my opinion.

Another option might be digital matrices but I'm not experienced in these.

jhulk · Post by **jhulk** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:24 am

actually on 20 orders it goes down they are 320 euros for one + vat plus shipping and im doing a group buy on the phutney clone

so yes they are expensive but its a one time buy there good to go 40+ years and when compared to chips like the ua726 which are over £100 now and even the sad1024 chips which are nearly just as dear i need 3 for the wad panel

and for the same money i can get a matrix panel

and if you put it into perspective if just buying the 150 of each cap on your own your nearly looking at the same cost as one of those panels

if i get 20+ orders we are looking at in pounds net about £240

jhulk · Post by **jhulk** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:28 am

there is a lot of copper in those matrices and there all spring loaded
trying to diy something that is proved to work over a very long time

i think the only real diy alternative is a logic switch matrix with analog switches + cpu but i recon by the time the a and r is done it will cost you more than just buying one

the new arturia synth uses one

papz · Post by **papz** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:33 am

What do you mean by "spring loaded" ?

I never saw any spring in a Ghielmetti matrix, contacts are actually gold plated stripes mounted to plastic rails assembled in a 2 floors grill.

jhulk · Post by **jhulk** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:34 am

but again you cant do the tricks like you can on the vcs3 as if you add different resistors sizes to pins you can change the rates of modulation just by adding different pins to different oscillators giving different rates

i am repair tech to james sanger at http://www.vibeystudios.com/about-vibey-studios.html

he has 2 vcs3 and has patch sheets by brian eno the sounds you get out of it mostly by accident and when the magic happens you really need to record it amazing drones

papz · Post by **papz** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:38 am

I know VCS3 and Synthi very well, I serviced more than 30 and own 2 AKS myself.

jhulk · Post by **jhulk** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:39 am

the copper is made in a way that they are spring loaded if they where fixed you would not be able to push in or you would damage or cause scratches

they move flex which allows them for insertion and removal with out damaging to the copper tracks

papz · Post by **papz** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:42 am

OK I see what you mean, sorry, English is not my native language and I understood it as real springs in the matrix, which didn't make much sense

jhulk · Post by **jhulk** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:48 am

nice the matrices on those are not made by the same manufacturer

so are you planning on paring your vocoder with the aks

i have fixed a few and played with loads but never owned one myself

but always wanted one but could never bring myself to pay the hiked prices

the most i ever payed on a synth was a waldorf wave in 1998 from turnkey just before they went bust and i got it for £5000 and them are £10000 today on auction prices

i buy most of my gear broken then fix them and got many of my 100+ gear of synths and samplers drum machines and fx for peanuts

and why i took the plunge on the phutney and living vocoder as ill have the satisfaction of building my own

papz · Post by **papz** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:14 am

Yes, these matrices are Sealectro ones.

I must admit I have no precise idea yet on how I'll do this vocoder and didn't inspect what's exactly on the PCB but to add an internal oscillator (I don't think there's one) and control it with a KS via a Jones socket as on the Vocoder 5000 sounds a nice idea. I know someone who has one and hopefully I'd be able to have a look inside someday, which might be helpful for this project.

jhulk · Post by **jhulk** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:45 am

i liked zthee panel but would love todo 40 vactrol circuits version also for vc control of each band

and have a second matrix panel with socket inputs for pin cables from the phutney but first need to sort out the pcb first and the basic controls and work out how im going to do all this in the space i want to do it in

as this is for me i want it special like my other builds im doing like the crowbx 8voice with 2 arp1601 sequencers in a keyboard with a beringer bc2000 and the expert sleepers usb to cv f1 and expanders device all under 14bit midi control

then using the bc to save presets going in a 76 keyboard case

and the 6voice crowminus got the first one built up and designing the panel in illustrator im going to be using 6 ganged pots and switches from elma

also designing bud boxes with vector rails in various sizes for the new 4u and serge and buchla at very cheap prices

be designing keyboards for those designs also which i will put to the community once i have built several mock ups and prototypes

spotta · Post by **spotta** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:08 am

magman wrote:Count me in for the capacitor buy please, 150 of each value.

For IC sockets, I have started using sockets from Toby Electronics.

Turned pin IC sockets.

I have always used turned pin sockets, but fro Rapid, Farnell and CPC in the past, but Ross Lamond put me on to Toby last year and I've had a few hundred sockets off them so far with no issues to report.

Regards

Magman

I live just down the road from Rapid and get end column pricing on everything they sell.
Happy to do a group buy for the turned sockets they sell. I use them on everything.
http://www.rapidonline.com/cables-conne ... kets-82699

jhulk · Post by **jhulk** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:31 am

group buy you ask every one you look at the amounts you can get a saving on in the 1000,s then see how many people it takes to get the discounted amounts then put forward the group buy saying minimum people amounts needed then just put it out there in the wind.

and wait for the whispers to come back once you get the quota required then wait for a few more then close it and order work out shipping to every one on a person to person basis send out costing and wait for the payments to come in then send out the items once paid job done as simple as that but it is a lot of work also as you have to arrange packaging and time for posting

it takes up a lot of your personal time and not much reward apart from getting your parts cheap like everyone else and the thanks from members.

spotta · Post by **spotta** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:15 pm

Yep. been there before

I've been helped out on here plenty of times though, always happy to return the favour, as I said, I get the price for 1000 even if I buy 1 so no minimum amount to reach, if only 30 of us want to do it I'll still get the cheap price.

jhulk · Post by **jhulk** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:19 pm

so 600 would be 10x £4.81 £48.10 + vat is 0.08 each on a thousand you can get them for 0.06 from toby on a thousand

you can get a 80 tube for the same price as 600 from rapid from toby

thats for a 8 pin dil

so i would say rapid is cheaper

farnell is 0.0703 on a thousand

rs is £6.50 on tube of 50 same for 600

mouser is about the same also with rs quantities they have stops unlike mouser and farnell

digikey on same part as farnel are 0.36 on a 1000,s so they are very expensive

synthdude · Post by **synthdude** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:22 pm

Is there an image out there somewhere of what the panel for this vocoder looks like? I have been looking but can't seem to find anything.

jhulk · Post by **jhulk** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:29 pm

http://www.ghielmetti.ch/index.php?nav= ... 240VAC/16A

with out the leds

magman · Post by **magman** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:40 pm

jhulk wrote:so 600 would be 10x £4.81 £48.10 + vat is 0.08 each on a thousand you can get them for 0.06 from toby on a thousand

you can get a 80 tube for the same price as 600 from rapid from toby

thats for a 8 pin dil

so i would say rapid is cheaper

farnell is 0.0703 on a thousand

rs is £6.50 on tube of 50 same for 600

mouser is about the same also with rs quantities they have stops unlike mouser and farnell

digikey on same part as farnel are 0.36 on a 1000,s so they are very expensive

I think end column pricing from Rapid means you get the 8 pin sockets for £3.87 a tube, regardless of the quantity bought, so Rapid is definitely cheaper in this instance.

Regards

Mike

jhulk · Post by **jhulk** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:53 pm

yep your right was looking at 6 pin and not 8 pin doh

jhulk · Post by **jhulk** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:16 pm

hey spotta id be up for a group buy 500 8 pin 300 14 pin 300 16 pin

never have enough sockets that should cover most of my projects for the next few months 104 on the vocoder for the 8pin

also some sill sockets

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JH Living Vocoder [BUILD THREAD]