dude wrote:i would say it is at least 65% fluffy but maybe up to 80 or 90% depending on your workflow.
to me it feels like an instrument that gives physical presence to live.
Hey most people who arent used to a specific """"workflow"""" can fill a lot of gap with push. But it's a bit of a try it probably doesnt fit everyone need.
I do feel like you that it's my physical connection to ableton live.
Hopefully the new one will fill the 20%
Thing is of course when it's the heaving editing part when i lay down stuff on arrangment push doesnt really help me. At least the v1 didnt.
Maybe with the screen now and better parameters editing it will
my gripes right now are being so tied to clip mode. i do not ever use except for mixing and routing setup that just happens to share the screen with the fucking clip mode. i really do not enjoy all those clips up there and having parts generated via push become deposited in that clip view. then have to manually put them where i want in timeline despite having already set them up where i want to record perfectly in the first place. there is probably a way to turn this off. my god i hope so.
there are also so many points where mouse is needed that shouldn't be.
that being said, it still feels great and is extremely useful to intuitively navigate aspects of live with hardware. it could easily be 100% fluff next level aside from the lack of "template"/user editability.
dude wrote:you can do 65-75% fluff editing/mixing.
my gripes right now are being so tied to clip mode. i do not ever use except for mixing and routing setup that just happens to share the screen with the fucking clip mode. i really do not enjoy all those clips up there and having parts generated via push become deposited in that clip view. then have to manually put them where i want in timeline despite having already set them up where i want to record perfectly in the first place. there is probably a way to turn this off. my god i hope so.
there are also so many points where mouse is needed that shouldn't be.
that being said, it still feels great and is extremely useful to intuitively navigate aspects of live with hardware. it could easily be 100% fluff next level aside from the lack of "template"/user editability.
If you want to go deep you need to do it with the mouse. I don't mind honestly. The crucial part where i want to avoid distraction is when i'm in burst creativity mode. And that's mostly in the beginning of the process
I did not get what you said about the clips tho haha
The thing is with the push i'm somehow less productive than before since i spend just a lot of time than before in clip view rather than settings stuff in arrangment with da mouse.
dude wrote:you can do 65-75% fluff editing/mixing.
my gripes right now are being so tied to clip mode. i do not ever use except for mixing and routing setup that just happens to share the screen with the fucking clip mode. i really do not enjoy all those clips up there and having parts generated via push become deposited in that clip view. then have to manually put them where i want in timeline despite having already set them up where i want to record perfectly in the first place. there is probably a way to turn this off. my god i hope so.
I am also concerned about the clip view focus. I wasted a lot of time in the clip view and produced countless unfinished crap with it. It just isn't the right workflow for me. If it would work as good for the arrangement view I might reconsider it.
Gogoolpex wrote:I am also concerned about the clip view focus. I wasted a lot of time in the clip view and produced countless unfinished crap with it. It just isn't the right workflow for me. If it would work as good for the arrangement view I might reconsider it.
I too used to be clip view phobic but I decided to give it a shot and I have to say I love it. It's such a great way to try things out. Duplicating scenes is important, if you want to change anything on any clip, duplicate the scene first. Then you have a ton of scenes that are slightly different. Then just go crazy recording scene launches and clip launches. Even if you end up with an arrangement that's like 30 minutes long, you'll find gold in there and it's so easy to delete stuff that's not working that when you get rid of the fluff you're about 75% there. I've been a lot more productive after I incorporated clip view into my workflow.
Another thing to try out is set clip launch to something smaller than a bar. You'll find a bunch of happy accidents in there that are still in time and you can always open things up after it gets recorded into arrangement view.
I mean, the of the whole point of the grid is to apply to the clips.
It's kind of what makes Ableton unique, this idea of 2 approaches in one.
Clips are for previewing, creating and performing ideas,
arrangement view is for assembling completed compositions, songs, etc.
Then it's possible to drag bits of arrangements back into clips and rebuild.
Thats how I use it with my Launchpad Mini anyway.
megamaeng wrote:Another thing to try out is set clip launch to something smaller than a bar. You'll find a bunch of happy accidents in there that are still in time and you can always open things up after it gets recorded into arrangement view.
I was just watching some videos on follow actions and legato mode that show how you can make some "randomized" stuff by using short loops on longer clips with legato turned on and the follow actions set to "other". Some cool stuff that would be difficult to do in a traditional DAW. Couldn't do it w/o clips, at least not easily.
Push2 is here, but I'm at work staring at the box. Can't even try it at work to see if it works, Linux only at work...
megamaeng wrote:Another thing to try out is set clip launch to something smaller than a bar. You'll find a bunch of happy accidents in there that are still in time and you can always open things up after it gets recorded into arrangement view.
I was just watching some videos on follow actions and legato mode that show how you can make some "randomized" stuff by using short loops on longer clips with legato turned on and the follow actions set to "other". Some cool stuff that would be difficult to do in a traditional DAW. Couldn't do it w/o clips, at least not easily.
Push2 is here, but I'm at work staring at the box. Can't even try it at work to see if it works, Linux only at work...
megamaeng wrote:Another thing to try out is set clip launch to something smaller than a bar. You'll find a bunch of happy accidents in there that are still in time and you can always open things up after it gets recorded into arrangement view.
I was just watching some videos on follow actions and legato mode that show how you can make some "randomized" stuff by using short loops on longer clips with legato turned on and the follow actions set to "other". Some cool stuff that would be difficult to do in a traditional DAW. Couldn't do it w/o clips, at least not easily.
Push2 is here, but I'm at work staring at the box. Can't even try it at work to see if it works, Linux only at work...
Pics or it didnt happened.
Also sd88me search "follow action ableton" on youtube
Pretty cool stuff definitly. Tom Cosm have good exemple of amazing clip follow action work
megamaeng wrote:
I too used to be clip view phobic but I decided to give it a shot and I have to say I love it. It's such a great way to try things out. ...
Yes I might give the clip view another try. I also know much more now than back then when I quit working with the live view.
So I guess I will try the clip view again and see where it takes me. If I still hate it then I will not buy a push.
follow actions is one of the "hidden gems" that can be really awesome with just one piece of audio (read: drums) with different start points, loop lengths, pitches, playback speed, etc...
And another new discovery for me last night, the chain selector. Not quite as cool as follow actions, but some chain selectors within the group of clips using follow actions could probably make some really interesting stuff.
dkcg wrote:And another new discovery for me last night, the chain selector. Not quite as cool as follow actions, but some chain selectors within the group of clips using follow actions could probably make some really interesting stuff.
yeah chain selector with m4l lfo and follow actions on drums. I like to put some part in sampler reversed too. You can get some really idmish and random sound
Soy Sos wrote:I mean, the of the whole point of the grid is to apply to the clips.
It's kind of what makes Ableton unique, this idea of 2 approaches in one.
Clips are for previewing, creating and performing ideas,
arrangement view is for assembling completed compositions, songs, etc.
Then it's possible to drag bits of arrangements back into clips and rebuild.
Thats how I use it with my Launchpad Mini anyway.
the whole point of the grid is to apply to clips? isn't that a pretty broad sweeping generalization you are making? that's totally cool if you use it and therefore see it that way but there might be some different strokes for different folks? i've been using ableton live for 12 years A LOT. i don't like clip view AT ALL. not for lack of trying or using clips. i am not a dj and i do not enjoy pressing play to make music for the most part. i realize live caters to that play-pressing mentality but both grids and ableton live can do a whole lot more than that imo. nothing wrong with clip launching in all it's forms, but certainly nothing wrong either/both/all ways. push can kind of do a million things in different ways too not just clip launching.
It didn't take long for me to cave and order the upgrade. It arrived today and I just took it for a spin. The pad sensitivity alone is much better than that of push 1. This is one classy piece of gear. I can't wait to really get in the zone and mess about with it.
On the topic of "follow actions", I like to create a few clips with variations and play around with the different modes and probability levels. It's great for variations in drum sequences. Legato is really cool for adding fills live without missing a beat. I was resistant to session view until I started jamming ideas out on the grid while recording to the arrange view. I tend to get ideas down quickly this way and then edit as needed in arrange.
Sorry Dude,
I got the impression you were a new Live user. I don't have Push, but use Novation controllers.
1 Launchpad mini stays dedicated to clip launching for me. There's so many things in the Ableton work flow including clips and follow actions that I think are just brilliant.
To each one's own of course.
Last edited by Soy Sos on Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
qu.one wrote:follow actions is one of the "hidden gems" that can be really awesome with just one piece of audio (read: drums) with different start points, loop lengths, pitches, playback speed, etc...
I love the follow actions with drums. I often use it with multiple clips in legato mode with 'any' or 'other' selected. Then I program each clip with slightly different patterns (or different drum hits). It can give a very nuanced performance feel.
The 2nd DMD3 demo track (Soft Mod World) used that technique.
I haven't tried playback speed though, thanks for the tip.
5,159 custom drum samples for electronic music
made from 4 modular systems, drum modules, and some nice analog outboard processing
202 Instruments for Ableton Live/Push (128s), NI Kontakt, and Logic EXS24
41 Kits for NI Maschine, FXPansion Geist, Ableton Drum Racks, and Octatrack Sample Chains http://www.drivenmachinedrums.com
all this talk of clips makes me want to try some experiments. it still seems like the most fun with them is with the follow behaviors that kind of knock out the fun of even manually triggering clips and letting the percentages do the talking rather than fingers. all about programming. really kind of pretending there is an element of humanity in there if you like. another thing that does that wonderfully is that M4L device patter. put that on a drum machine tweak a bit and it can be a similar experience to playing with a drummer kind of. i found it pleasant.
for this!
I guess I love Ableton.
I can't wait to really get in the zone and mess about with it.
