Tides Parasite v1.121: an alternative firmware for MI Tides

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mqtthiqs
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Post by mqtthiqs »

radiokoala, in some way you're right: the random values will repeat... probably after a few years uninterrupted! :hihi: The random number generator is rather primitive, but will still produce a good million values before repeating itself.

Otherwise no, if you perceive repetition in the output signal but it's purely psychological (and competely normal: that's what the brain is good at, seeking "explanations", which repetition is one).
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radiokoala
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Post by radiokoala »

I also think I've scaled the voltage this time, so that's what gives perception of steady bassline instead of a free jazz solo freakout. Sounded a bit like turing machine pattern (when you lock it). I remember it have played more randomly before, so I got confused.
Good to know, either way! 8-)

Edit: also, are those million values derived from a mathematical formula? You surely do not store them in flash memory I assume!
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mqtthiqs
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Post by mqtthiqs »

radiokoala wrote:are those million values derived from a mathematical formula? You surely do not store them in flash memory I assume!
No, definitely not stored in memory :)
Actually they are generated quite simply, just by a multiplication and an addition! That's how all MI modules generate randomness. You take the previous random value you computed, you add a certain big number M to it, then you multiply by another big number N, and finally you take the result modulo a certain number P (this last step is done automatically by integer overflow). It may not seem like it, but if you choose M, N and P wisely, the series of numbers, between 0 and P, that you get by successively adding and multiplying will not be very discernable from random numbers by a human.

Three things to note: 1/ it's good enough to give a flavor of "randomness", and certainly good enough for the purpose of generating random CV (you wil *not* hear any difference with "real" or "analog" randomness), but it will be terrible for other purposes, such as encryption (it will be much too easy for a computer to guess how the series has been computed, and therefore predict the next number in the series). 2/ since it is deterministic (same start number = same series), it means that you will get the exact same series of numbers each time you turn your system on (with some caveats); yet, a minor variation of the input (a user turns a knob for instance) might trigger a computation of the next number at a random time, and change the course of the series drastically. That's almost the definition of a chaotic system : it's hard to predict (by a human in our case), and it's very dependent of initial conditions (someone interacting with the system).
3/ EDIT: if you start you system with an initial value of 42 for instance, compute 1000 numbers in the series and end up on 42 again, it means that you will start again the same series of 1000 numbers over and over again: there will be a repetition. That's inevitable but there are clever ways to choose M and N such that it will take millions of computations to end up in a loop like this. And a loop of a million numbers will certainly not be a problem to record your hours of wiggling :)

I got carried away, but does this answer your question?
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makers
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Post by makers »

Posts like that keep me addicted to Muff's. Thank you!
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radiokoala
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Post by radiokoala »

mqtthigs wrote:I got carried away, but does this answer your question?
:party: Sure does!

The bit about "that's how all MI modules generate randomness" though... on a first thought, there's not much of them in a company lineup with random outputs. are these (calculations) mainly used for internal processes or something? Interesting to know examples of random used in MI products – thanks!
Witness 60 minutes of audio-visual industrial psy-techno
jam-offering (and press like so this wipes away minecraft
videos clean from the trends and we get to see
some proper rave action there, FINALLY):

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X WITHOUT Y BOOK(available! pm)
/ My electro-rap debut!! (video)
/ Analog & modular videos
:smoke:
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Post by hawkfuzz »

Jammed for a couple hours today, remembered this firmware and spent two hours trying to upload it and not working. Through the mixer, whisper to red line, through Google Drive on my iPhone at full volume, FM knob in every position, read every method from this and MI's site on getting loaded, and still nothing.

I finally realized I bought a DIY module and wonder, could this be the reason? I've gotten the yellow light and I've had the snake LED sequence occur for 2-3 cycles, but then red, and I'm colorblind, but after all this, I really know red.

I feel that if it has any firmware on it, there's nothing to prevent it from using alternative firmware...it's the only thing I could thing of really...

For now it's just a 14hp panel with blinking lights
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Post by jimi23 »

Up until a few days ago I'd never touched graphic design software. Learnt a few things in illustrator getting some panels made for some DIY stuff, thought I'd start something for tides

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Really loving two drunks at the moment. Picked up a Mannequins just friends, which is meeting my needs for waveshapable modulation/osc, so parasites is probably keeping Tides in my rack.
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Post by rabbitfur »

hawkfuzz wrote:Jammed for a couple hours today, remembered this firmware and spent two hours trying to upload it and not working. Through the mixer, whisper to red line, through Google Drive on my iPhone at full volume, FM knob in every position, read every method from this and MI's site on getting loaded, and still nothing.

I finally realized I bought a DIY module and wonder, could this be the reason? I've gotten the yellow light and I've had the snake LED sequence occur for 2-3 cycles, but then red, and I'm colorblind, but after all this, I really know red.

I feel that if it has any firmware on it, there's nothing to prevent it from using alternative firmware...it's the only thing I could thing of really...

For now it's just a 14hp panel with blinking lights
Have you tried panning the sound source to one side? Mono plugged into stereo can do wierd stuff
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Post by hawkfuzz »

I plugged a stereo cable into a stereo input in my mixer and then panned it to a side and plugged the corresponding out into the FM input.
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Post by XponentOne »

Fwiw I find it easiest to update the mi modules by boosting the output of my laptop to modular level in an amp, and then pulling it back incrementally with an attenuator till I find the level its after - quickest way ive found yet.
astroschnautzer

Post by astroschnautzer »

Don't know if this bug has been covered but the fine tune will screw up the tracking of the v/oct if put anywhere else than in the middle position...
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Post by Zymos »

I can't seem to get this to track correctly.
I realize that the procedure to get it into calibration mode is different from stock. I'm still plugging in dummies on the FM and level inputs, and setting frequency at noon.

When I power up with the quality button pressed, all the lights are yellow.
I send it 1V, unplug the cable, switch my voltage source to 3V, press the mode button. All LEDs are green. Plug in cable, then press mode button, and it goes back to the normal use mode.
I'm using an O+C to calibrate it. I tested that with my multimeter, and am seeing 1 and 3 V.

I know that harmonic rich sounds can be harder to tune, but still, I can easily tell that octaves are more like 15 or so notes apart, and arrpegiating a triad is really off too.



Any ideas?
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mqtthiqs
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Post by mqtthiqs »

astroschnautzer wrote:Don't know if this bug has been covered but the fine tune will screw up the tracking of the v/oct if put anywhere else than in the middle position...
Yes, that's "normal". The fine tune knob happens to be also the attenuator for the FM input, and I cannot separate their uses: when nothing is plugged into FM, a small constant voltage is normalled to it.

Now that FM is linear, fine-tuning will *add* to the frequency (therefore messing the tuning, the same way a frequency shifter does) and not *multiply* to them. It's a choice, on this hardware you can't have linear FM and fine tune... :despair:
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mqtthiqs
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Post by mqtthiqs »

Zymos wrote:I can't seem to get this to track correctly.
Is the FM attenuverter at noon? :despair:
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Post by Zymos »

mqtthiqs wrote:
Zymos wrote:I can't seem to get this to track correctly.
Is the FM attenuverter at noon? :despair:
Yep.
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mqtthiqs
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Post by mqtthiqs »

I don't understand this bit:
Zymos wrote:I send it 1V, unplug the cable, switch my voltage source to 3V, press the mode button. All LEDs are green. Plug in cable, then press mode button, and it goes back to the normal use mode.
Which cable do you unplug? The one giving the 1V? If yes, that's what's wrong: Tides will read off your 1V only when you press the button. If you unplugged the cable, it will read off 0V (no cable) and think it's 1V.
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Post by Zymos »

Yeah, I think that was it. I was worried it was still reading the voltage while I adjusted it at the source. Now I get it, thanks.
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Post by Flohr »

mqtthiqs wrote:
astroschnautzer wrote:Don't know if this bug has been covered but the fine tune will screw up the tracking of the v/oct if put anywhere else than in the middle position...
Yes, that's "normal". The fine tune knob happens to be also the attenuator for the FM input, and I cannot separate their uses: when nothing is plugged into FM, a small constant voltage is normalled to it.

Now that FM is linear, fine-tuning will *add* to the frequency (therefore messing the tuning, the same way a frequency shifter does) and not *multiply* to them. It's a choice, on this hardware you can't have linear FM and fine tune... :despair:
I for one am missing the ability to have a useful fine tune knob. It makes it quite difficult to use Tides for example as a modulation oscillator for FM. I have two suggestions for alternatives, both involve using the current coarse tune as a fine tune knob. This might also mean disabling the FM attenuvertor from its current fine tune duties.

1. Turn the current L mode into the only LFO range mode. Change M and H to a range of audio rate values. Make the frequency knob a fine tune.

2. Change the rate switches to octave buttons. Up and down. This would seem to be as simple as having them add or subtract 1 volt. Then you could have the large knob be a fine tune. And perhaps even octave switching from one of the gate inputs?

It may be that due to hardware or software limitations neither of these are possible, but I would prefer either to the current situation and would gladly put money towards a solution.
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Post by bemushroomed »

This doesn't calibrate for me at all, just getting a constant tone and Freq. does nothing.

I've tried from my Microbrute and from my Beatstep.

I turn it on with B pressed (all leds are yellow)
I release the button
I press C2 on the Microbrute
I Hold A (all leds are green)
I release the button
I press C4.
Press A

All buttons in the middle position. cables connected like described in the manual.

Must have done it 10 times, nothing. I calibrated my Braids just before it, worked great.
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Post by erstlaub »

Are you sure you're not in PLL mode, without a clock I don't think it has anything to divide and just stays constant.
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Post by bemushroomed »

erstlaub wrote:Are you sure you're not in PLL mode, without a clock I don't think it has anything to divide and just stays constant.
:doh: I was. Thanks a ton!!
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Post by erstlaub »

No worries, easily done.

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Post by bemushroomed »

Two-bumps mode, wow, soooo gritty :hail:

Had to give a small donation for this :love:
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mqtthiqs
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Post by mqtthiqs »

well thanks for it bemushroomed
and thanks for the help erstlaub, good guess.
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Post by Flohr »

mqtthiqs Any response to my thoughts on the fine tune? I don't have any expectations, just curious to hear your take on it.
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