Ableton Push 3

[mwvm]

Mine arrives today.

Main decider other than the comprehensive synths, samplers, FX and recording/looping music is the slide MPE stuff. Used ribbons and a roli, and the polybrute, they all have their pros and cons. The interface surface and what I've heard so far sounds great (other than the sampled instrument pitch bending, which always sounds meh)

The ADAT stuff is a welcome nice to have. The expert sleeper modules are some of the best engineered audio applications in the industry for seamless integration. Looking forward to connect with euro again.

[naturligfunktion]

The point about the ADAT connection is that you can use an ADAT expander for additional analogue IO. You could get an Audient ASP880 and have 8 mic pres that toast the competition.

What, so I can connect the Push 3 to my RME interface and essentially skip the computer screen, skip to power up my computer, but still record my guitar?

Thats pretty cool if that is the case.

Anyone know how RMEs totalmix work within the Push3?

[ObsoleteModular]

I guess what I'm learning here is ...

That's all fair comment, Koekepan, and well expressed too.

[ObsoleteModular]

The point about the ADAT connection is that you can use an ADAT expander for additional analogue IO. You could get an Audient ASP880 and have 8 mic pres that toast the competition.

What, so I can connect the Push 3 to my RME interface and essentially skip the computer screen, skip to power up my computer, but still record my guitar?

Thats pretty cool if that is the case.

Anyone know how RMEs totalmix work within the Push3?

'Audio interfaces with ADAT' and 'ADAT expanders' aren't exactly the same thing, so I can't say for certain but I could, for example, use my Focusrite OctoPre as you describe which Focusrite describe as an "EIGHT-CHANNEL MIC PREAMP WITH ADAT CONNECTIVITY" (their caps, couldn't be bothered to re-type )

No third-party software support at launch so the TotalMix stuff won't work on the Push but obviously would within Live on desktop/laptop.

[naturligfunktion]

The point about the ADAT connection is that you can use an ADAT expander for additional analogue IO. You could get an Audient ASP880 and have 8 mic pres that toast the competition.

What, so I can connect the Push 3 to my RME interface and essentially skip the computer screen, skip to power up my computer, but still record my guitar?

Thats pretty cool if that is the case.

Anyone know how RMEs totalmix work within the Push3?

'Audio interfaces with ADAT' and 'ADAT expanders' aren't exactly the same thing, so I can't say for certain but I could, for example, use my Focusrite OctoPre as you describe which Focusrite describe as an "EIGHT-CHANNEL MIC PREAMP WITH ADAT CONNECTIVITY" (their caps, couldn't be bothered to re-type )

No third-party software support at launch so the TotalMix stuff won't work on the Push but obviously would within Live on desktop/laptop.

Im looking into this a bit and it does seem that I in fact can expand! I have never used ADAT so I have no clue to how haha, but the option is very exiting

Still a bit on the fence whether I should just double down and get the stand alone, or get the ordinary one and maybe upgrade later. 20k is pretty hefty but it seems cool

[Sysagent]

Looks good!

I wonder when the scripts to make it all work with Bitwig start to appear... Currently using my Push 2 with Bitwig and it isn't too bad a compromise, be nice if all the neat new features with the Push 3 are mapped into Bitwig (enhanced I/O etc).

Very much doubt that we will get the stand alone features, but we can dream can't we.

[ObsoleteModular]

Looks good!

I wonder when the scripts to make it all work with Bitwig start to appear... Currently using my Push 2 with Bitwig and it isn't too bad a compromise, be nice if all the neat new features with the Push 3 are mapped into Bitwig (enhanced I/O etc).

Very much doubt that we will get the stand alone features, but we can dream can't we.

At the end of Stimming's hour long review, in which he raves about it, he says "I look forward to using it with my favourite DAW, Bitwig".

I bet Abelton loved that

[MoonPoly]

All right. My point is bang per buck. Let's get into it.

Fewer USB connections than Force, Maschine+, Live II, X,...

Like I said IO design is an expandable core, ADAT and USB cv midi.. you can add IO anyway you want, in anyform .. ribbon controllers and where likely going to drive above 2grand (target market price value)

Speaking of I/O, no phantom power so ... So, again, not good for bang per buck.

you are paying for so much more than I/O .. code much ? .. If you are using a pathon powered mic in a studio you are likely using preamps or in a studio setting aswell ... no phantom power in samplers is not a standard

What makes the I/O situation worse is that they tout their CV/gate connections. Good for them! Except that you need adapters ..

I think you convert the signal inside a setting menu .. How about Bang for the code /softwhere .. you know the full on production suit that lives inside a linnInstrument?

I'm sure that the screen is beautiful. However, according to their own tech specs, it's a glorious, gorgeous ... 1.5 inches vertical. I could almost cover that with my thumb. ... The MPC X has an even bigger screen.

Size noes not matter here... the grid is a visual feedback, and the screen displays more info that the Akais ! .. and is quicker to navigate.. Banging workFlow per buck much?

Even if they firmware upgraded the software, they can't firmware upgrade the hardware, and before you get all indignant about being able to upgrade the hardware please remember that the screen is built into the chassis.

I dont think song mode will be presented as GUI on the LCD .. perhaps for bars/ arrangement points.. I would imagine song mode will be displayed on the Grid = Pads representing Bars or section of bars

The only thing on the table that I can see is the MPE XY pad interface. Unfortunately, I could buy a brand, spanking new Live II, and a brand, spanking new K-board for less... Again, bang per buck.

Being abel to glide through audio in realtime in tempo and/or in pitch on a 3dimensional space in ONE instrument is quite a breakthough ... Bang per the Future much?

I'm afraid that your image of doing lines in the VIP room is more true than you know, from the perspective of price.

It was a bit sexist .. my apologize to the ladies

If that is a fair price, then the Live II is a screaming deal like midnight on Black Friday. Bigger screen, more I/O, more flexible I/O, more battery life, and all at half the price.

These unit are just not comparable in the way you think .. this is a way more morden instrumnet in every way vs a 80s drumcomputer formatt
from music production ..

Can you please point me at one, objectively recorded (as in, technical specifications) element about it that offers better bang per buck than, say, the Live II? Knobs?

Well I guess we have covered this by now ... The MPC One may be the greatest price per the buck ratio... but its not a Push 3 .. I think this might be your main misunderstanding ..

All in all ... This is the biggest mike drop in the pan of all groovebox/samplers and cross platform since .. well since beginning of sampling ..

Brave words. Now back them up with specifics. Details.

Well its a DAW on a 3dimensional creative sensitory space (MPE is relatively new market in controling MIDI), running a complete audio production station, fully expandable,, built top quality, capable of sampling manipulation unparalleled to any other sampling station ever and a massive resource of tools ..

Its a fikking Linn Instrument DAW with elastic audio !!! ... Not brave words... this isn't Zelda .. just factual observation .. and this ends my conversation on your opinion ..

[ObsoleteModular]

Its a fikking Linn Instrument DAW with elastic audio !!! ...

and an audio interface, and a multiple paradigm synth engine, and CV/gate, and ADAT, and a screen, and a DAW control surface besides musical notes, and an internal rechargeable battery, and upgradeable ram/processor/hdd, and a M4L host ...

it's a beast no matter which way you slice it

[djthopa]

Someone else got an ableton notification? Mine is arriving tomorrow

Hey ! Long time no speak! Hope life is good!
Let us know how you find it - I was excited when I saw the announcement, the battery and the i/o. Then I started thinking what it would give me over the Push 2 (which I love). I probably wouldnt use the MPE stuff to any great extent. The battery is a bit too weak for the couch or to take out and about. If I connected the i/o then I’d probably never move it from the desk.
I dream about it for the lounge connected to power but it seems overkill.
I’m quite excited about it, am keen and I suspect I’ll get one in the next 12 months if a few more things are added like better m4l compatability - still not sure what works and what doesnt and if my devices will work or what I would need to do to them!
So I’m desperately keen to see how *other* people find it before I commit - so report back!

Ps give me a shout if you fancy any pcbs - got a few unreleased interesting things you may like!

Hiya mate!

Yes long time no see. Hope you are doing well.

I’m getting the standalone for a few reasons.

I don’t have any more space and im not using my linnstrument at all.

I have a es3/ es6 combo that is the same, im not using it as much as I should and this could be a great use for these modules.

Surely it’s going to replace my push 2 as Ableton controller which is how i’m going to use it most of the time.

The bonus of being able to take it away somewhere else is super appealing.

I have been using live since V1 and it’s been my daw of choice for a long time.

I trust they will be updating the push to be closerq to the computer daw….I also have a lot of packs I have purchased over the years.

Really looking forward to cv tools implemented (I don’t know if it has already)

Looking forward to hearing about your new designs!!!

Thanks mate

[forestcaver]

<snip>

Thanks for the reply - I’d be really keen to see how you get on with it - I’m keen on it for similar reasons (Live is the DAW I’ve settled on for the last 10 years or so as well). The standalone really appeals but I’m still unsure on the limitations (battery life especially). I’m looking at loads of videos and reading up on it. Another issue for me is that I use Kontakt quite a bit for sampled modular instruments - I ought to convert them to Ableton sampler really - there’s nothing fancy about the instruments that needs Kontakt (round-robin is as complicated as it gets).
I’m thinking I’ll probably get one but may wait a few+ months to see what they add and see how hackable it is (more powerful NUC/clonable disc etc)

Keep us updated with how you find it !

(Drop me an email or PM if you want me to post you some pcbs - can discuss the new designs there :-) )

[stk]

What, so I can connect the Push 3 to my RME interface and essentially skip the computer screen, skip to power up my computer, but still record my guitar?

Anyone know how RMEs totalmix work within the Push3?

I'm 99% certain you will need to use your RME in standalone mode as an A/D/A converter via ADAT i/o. Only audio over ADAT, no control.

So, no Totalmix. You save your routings into flash RAM via the Totalmix on the computer, then connect the RME to P3 via ADAT and it works as a standalone converter. (This is how I use my spare RME FF800, as i/o for my analogue mixer over ADAT).

[Back Down the Path]

You’d think Ableton would have an update for CV tools that allows you to clock your modular gear in standalone off the bat, but it looks like you need to set it up in the DAW first and then transfer the project to the Push 3.

Not that big of a deal and I’m sure that will be updated quickly, but…come on!

Also, there is some yucky latency that he points out happens when monitoring through Push’s interface (at the end of the video). To be expected with an audio interface but, still.

[DoverBeach]

So you say, but from where I'm standing, if I were Roland or Akai or KORG, I wouldn't be losing sleep.

Akai, Korg, NI don't offer 1/5 of what Push3 offers in terms of sound design capabilities, routings, effects, sequencing power, ease of use and seamless integration with a daw in their grooveboxes. It's what people look for in a groovebox more than connectivity.

[stripou]

You’d think Ableton would have an update for CV tools that allows you to clock your modular gear in standalone off the bat, but it looks like you need to set it up in the DAW first and then transfer the project to the Push 3.

Not that big of a deal and I’m sure that will be updated quickly, but…come on!

Also, there is some yucky latency that he points out happens when monitoring through Push’s interface (at the end of the video). To be expected with an audio interface but, still.

and i mean this with pure love i swear

[Back Down the Path]

and i mean this with pure love i swear

Waiting to see how it actually works before criticizing it is how I operate! Mine arrives today I’m sure I’ll have some more!

[stripou]

and i mean this with pure love i swear

Waiting to see how it actually works before criticizing it is how I operate! Mine arrives today I’m sure I’ll have some more!

that's awesome man
should we also do the same with praises?

[Back Down the Path]

that's awesome man
should we also do the same with praises?

Nah. Never said you can’t criticize it. You are just being a little weird about it so we’re having a bit of fun together. All love my man.

[stripou]

that's awesome man
should we also do the same with praises?

Nah. Never said you can’t criticize it. You are just being a little weird about it so we’re having a bit of fun together. All love my man.

now that's my jam!
i'll take weird i dont mind.

[naturligfunktion]

What, so I can connect the Push 3 to my RME interface and essentially skip the computer screen, skip to power up my computer, but still record my guitar?

Anyone know how RMEs totalmix work within the Push3?

I'm 99% certain you will need to use your RME in standalone mode as an A/D/A converter via ADAT i/o. Only audio over ADAT, no control.

So, no Totalmix. You save your routings into flash RAM via the Totalmix on the computer, then connect the RME to P3 via ADAT and it works as a standalone converter. (This is how I use my spare RME FF800, as i/o for my analogue mixer over ADAT).

Yeah I think you are right.

Another question, for the entire community, when connected to a computer, you can still use your ordinary audio interface right? I can't find this in the manual, but that has to be the case right? Or do you guys think that you have to use the audio interface which is built in to the Push 3?

[Back Down the Path]

Another question, for the entire community, when connected to a computer, you can still use your ordinary audio interface right? I can't find this in the manual, but that has to be the case right? Or do you guys think that you have to use the audio interface which is built in to the Push 3?

You will be able to select any connected interface you want from Ableton's setting's menu. Also, on Mac, you can create an aggregate device and use Push 3 and any other connected interfaces you want (for the price of additional latency).

[naturligfunktion]

Another question, for the entire community, when connected to a computer, you can still use your ordinary audio interface right? I can't find this in the manual, but that has to be the case right? Or do you guys think that you have to use the audio interface which is built in to the Push 3?

You will be able to select any connected interface you want from Ableton's setting's menu. Also, on Mac, you can create an aggregate device and use Push 3 and any other connected interfaces you want (for the price of additional latency).

Thank you - I just pre-ordered one

I am very exited!

[Koekepan]

Akai, Korg, NI don't offer 1/5 of what Push3 offers in terms of sound design capabilities, routings, effects, sequencing power, ease of use and seamless integration with a daw in their grooveboxes. It's what people look for in a groovebox more than connectivity.

Could you put some facts behind this?

Sound design: Native Instruments lets you load Reaktor instruments on the Maschine+ (granted with some limitations), and Akai's offerings will do auto-sampling including parameter mapping from external devices including with CV, so while I grant you that's not on-board, it's a hell of a potent sampling option - which you'd expect from a sampler.

Routings: I know for a fact that the Force is basically a complex digital mixer, internally, incorporating insert effects, including side chaining, send effects, submixes and parameter-mapped automations running from LFOs, track sound measurements, on-board controls or external controllers. What more does the Push 3 offer that places it a factor of 5 higher, because I haven't heard it?

Effects: The Maschine+ gives you a bucketload of effects, and Akai's effects from AIR sound really nice too. Could you back up this putative 5/1 advantage on the part of Ableton, given that the Push 3 won't be running VSTs?

Sequencing power: OK, this definitely needs some explanation. The Force is well known as a sequencing powerhouse, just like its MPC brethren. There are minor differences, but you get your arps, ratchets and flams, you get detail sequencing of events down to sample resolution, you get automation sequencing, you even get probability. What does the Push3 get that places it five times higher on sequencing?

Ease of use: I know a bunch of MPC heads who will tell you how much they love the MPC way. Again, can you quantify this? The biggest complaint that I've recently heard was about bugs, and if you're about to tell me how bug-free the Push 3 is, I must warn you that I'm going to be very sceptical.

Integration: I'll give you this one. Of course, you don't have the arrangement view on the Push 3, so you kind of need it. As a soup-to-nuts standalone machine, that's actually not good news. You also can't carry your plugins over except by freezing tracks, so there's that.

There it is. What creates this quintuple benefit for double the money? I don't see it. Tighter integration with a DAW is all I (maybe) see from the list that you gave, and I'm not sure that this would be a headline feature for a standalone machine. By way of contrast, you can hump your Live 2 out into the forest and spend hours on battery from a cold standing start in sound design, and end up with a polished banger. No integration needed.

[flts]

You’d think Ableton would have an update for CV tools that allows you to clock your modular gear in standalone off the bat, but it looks like you need to set it up in the DAW first and then transfer the project to the Push 3.

I think the manual says they have CV Tools presets included, that have some of the most common cases set up for the pedal / CV out jacks - eg. two CV/gate pairs, clock + some CV/gate, et cetera. So while you can't currently adjust the per output mapping on the fly, you can load up one of the presets that have sane mappings for all the four outputs. I'm not sure if the person in the video was missing that or if he was talking about some other case.

I assume you can also make your own routing preset on the computer and then transfer it to the Push if you aren't happy with the included ones, but can't verify that because mine only arrives on Monday.

[Back Down the Path]

I assume you can also make your own routing preset on the computer and then transfer it to the Push if you aren't happy with the included ones, but can't verify that because mine only arrives on Monday.

Thanks for the clarifications. I think their initial design philosophy of “setting up presets in the DAW and then transferring them to Push 3” might rub some people the wrong way and I see it changing over time. If it’s a true standalone device you should be able to just boot it up and route the I/O.