Amalgamod Buchla and/or Serge Folding Case (interest check)

[amalgamod]

Hello 4U modular people!

I've wanted to build Buchla and Serge version of my eurorack folding case for some time. Jan/Feb is usually pretty quiet so I'll have time to do a short run but before I do I wanted to see whether there would be any interest in such a thing? See below for a mockup of both 8U and 16U folding cases. If interested let me know which 4U format you feel would be most suited to a case like this? I understand there's a strong DIY aspect to Serge so I might be barking up the wrong tree there but perhaps there's a market for a unique Buchla or Loudest Warning format case. I dunno.. Either way, your thoughts and feedback would be much appreciated.

Shoot me a message via info@amalgamod.com to register your interest as this will most likely only be a one-off.

Thanks!
Ian.

[Sinamsis]

Dude, I've been thinking about figuring out how to build my own.... I would probably be interested, in Buchla and maybe even Serge. Usually when we talk about U in 4U cases it's total spaces. For instance, a Buchla 12U case would be 2 rows of 6U skiffs (6 spots for modules). My need might be a little ridiculous, but I would probably want a 24U case, meaning 4 rows of 6U. Otherwise Serge may be a little tricky. Will you be making them for LW format? Random Source 4x4s? They have different panel sizes. Will they be geared towards full panels?

[amalgamod]

Dude, I've been thinking about figuring out how to build my own.... I would probably be interested, in Buchla and maybe even Serge. Usually when we talk about U in 4U cases it's total spaces. For instance, a Buchla 12U case would be 2 rows of 6U skiffs (6 spots for modules).

Good to know thanks!

My need might be a little ridiculous, but I would probably want a 24U case, meaning 4 rows of 6U. Otherwise Serge may be a little tricky. Will you be making them for LW format? Random Source 4x4s? They have different panel sizes. Will they be geared towards full panels?

Anything's possible! The boats can be stacked so technically you could have as many boats as you need all connected (see below for an example of an 18U euro system). I'll see if there's a way I can allow for different 4U formats within the same boat design. If it's not possible I'll go with the most popular. What width do you think would be the most ideal? Bear with me while I attempt to translate from euro to 4U haha.

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[Sinamsis]

There's a thread here somewhere with the specifics of panel size and hole layout for Random Source Serge 4x4s and maybe Buchla modules. I have learned the hard way the 4U is not 4U. Meaning spacing of rails will not be the same. I have repurposed two eurorack cases for 4U (RS Serge) now. I tried using 4U brackets. I got away with it in my first case by angling the brackets to make things line up. In my second case it didn't work, so I just installed the rails without brackets. The spacing on the brackets would not work for my Buchla modules, which are similar in size, and definitely not for other Serge format modules that you the Loudest Warning format hole spacing. 126 hp is roughly 6U (meaning 6 modules worth of space), though it might be slightly more (an hp or two). My personal goal is to have something portable, but big enough to house most of my stuff. So I would like something that is 4 rows of 6U, and can fold (preferably patched). I would like a handle on the back if possible to carry it. I've watched your cases with great interest. I already had Intellijel 7U so I never took the plunge. But where Intellijel really fell short with those cases is the joining system. I wish they could fold and came with a handle.

Another thing to note is the power systems. I wire my own euro supplies, and did so with my Serge as well. I had some issues initially using eurorack boards. In hindsight though, perhaps these were just modules I didn't build correctly haha. Anyways, most Serge runs off of +/- 12V. You can power them off of eurorack boards with an custom cable. However, Serge has a noisy ground and quiet ground. I'm not sure how important it is to preserve this haha. I did in my new case and everything works well. But it very well could work with euro distro boards as well.

Regarding Buchla power this is REALLY tricky. I would recommend talking to Doug of Studio H. He is a wealth of knowledge. Also Steffan of SAModular, who has some pretty great power solutions. But if the case is to be used with 200e, the distribution is challenging. 200e modules rely on i2c, and noise on the bus can cause lock ups and malfunctioning modules. Doug has developed repeaters which help reduce this, but you still have to be aware of it and cautious. Oh, and some Buchla modules have ports that need to be rear-mounted for functionality. For instance the 225e is the MIDI to CV module as well as preset manager. The MIDI ports are mounted at the rear of the boat.

[Minimoog56]

Do we really need another case for Buchla at this point? Domestic US builder at SAM/boops relative pricing would be great and save on shipping, but if the poster doesn’t understand or have not already done your home work on the modules specs and power requirements, including 200e lockup issues, etc., what is the value added here.

[captnapalm]

Another thing to consider is that Vector-type rails don’t allow enough clearance for many Buchla modules, including the 208. Bent sheet metal is really the optimal way to mount them.

[amalgamod]

Regarding Buchla power this is REALLY tricky. I would recommend talking to Doug of Studio H. He is a wealth of knowledge. Also Steffan of SAModular, who has some pretty great power solutions. But if the case is to be used with 200e, the distribution is challenging. 200e modules rely on i2c, and noise on the bus can cause lock ups and malfunctioning modules. Doug has developed repeaters which help reduce this, but you still have to be aware of it and cautious. Oh, and some Buchla modules have ports that need to be rear-mounted for functionality. For instance the 225e is the MIDI to CV module as well as preset manager. The MIDI ports are mounted at the rear of the boat.

Great info, thanks. Re: i2c and data lines in general it's always best to keep separate from the power bus. If I end up offering power I'm fairly confident I can offer a nice low noise solution as I have done with euro power, however I may end up offering the case itself with adaptor plates for aftermarket busboards. Rear access is certainly possible. My euro cases have what I call "IO slots" which can be configured for a range of connectors so I should be able adapt these for 4U applications.

[amalgamod]

Do we really need another case for Buchla at this point? Domestic US builder at SAM/boops relative pricing would be great and save on shipping, but if the poster doesn’t understand or have not already done your home work on the modules specs and power requirements, including 200e lockup issues, etc., what is the value added here.

I'm not sure, which is kinda the point of my post.. It's ok, I'm familiar with the panel dimensions of the various 4U formats and their power requirements, thanks. I'm simply gauging interest to help me make a decision on which format (if any) to go ahead with. I have 10+ years experience designing eurorack cases and power supplies, the majority of which ship to the EU, UK and US. I don't see the perceived value in offering a 4U case as being any different from 3U.

I might have a solution for a case that can accommodate both Buchla and RS Serge 4x4 with adjustable rails to allow for the offset between module mounting holes but I'll need to prototype it before I can confirm. Loudest Warning has a different panel size and would require a different build. I'm only keen to offer a single 4U option so it comes down to which is more popular (should've made a poll but cbf figuring out how to).

[Kent]

These cases look lovely!

However, I must stress that you speak with Doug, of Studio.h fame, about: power, DC-to-DC convertors, i2c, etc. This is currently the most tricky, frustrating, and unclear aspect of the 200e.

I'm happy to discuss over Zoom/Skype/WhatsApp/Whatsever if you would like.

[amalgamod]

Another thing to consider is that Vector-type rails don’t allow enough clearance for many Buchla modules, including the 208. Bent sheet metal is really the optimal way to mount them.

This I didn't know, thanks for pointing out. Afaik and after having discussed at length with Laurie from Elby Designs, it looks like this won't be a problem with RS 4x4 and Serge panels however I'll need to add a shim to my rail profile to move it in from the edge of the case. LW modules otoh are made to suit euro rails so this might be the deciding factor on which format to go with. I was planning to use my own rail profile which is slightly thinner than vector profile. It's possible to lose the rails altogether but that'd mean the case wouldn't be compatible with both Buchla and Serge due to the difference in mounting hole positions. With a rail profile I could make the vertical pitch adjustable, but no point if it fouls on the PCB.. I could also look at adapting my folding mechanism to existing bud enclosures but I'm afraid I'd not be bringing much to the table in that case. Ideally I'd like to do for Buchla or Serge what I've done for eurorack which is offer a lightweight travel solution with high spec PSU. But hey, just throwing it out there!

[amalgamod]

These cases look lovely!

However, I must stress that you speak with Doug, of Studio.h fame, about: power, DC-to-DC convertors, i2c, etc. This is currently the most tricky, frustrating, and unclear aspect of the 200e.

I'm happy to discuss over Zoom/Skype/WhatsApp/Whatsever if you would like.

Thanks Kent! I will definitely heed your advice with respect to the 200e. Thanks for reaching out, I'll be in touch.

[amalgamod]

I've just found out the new Elby CGS panels (BOG, MARSH, SWAMP and Voltrons) are all 84HP LW format. This along with Buchla apparently being incompatible with euro rail profiles might be an argument for going with LW. This would be a no brainer as it's very simple to adapt my existing design and PSU with minimal fuss. A Buchla case could still be on the cards but it's looking like I'll need more time to make sure I get it right. Older CGS panels are more of a DIY scene from what I can tell so I doubt there would be a market for a high end case here and besides the hardwiring involved with older CGS panels doesn't lend itself to very well to a 'modular' case and is more suited to bud enclosures where the PCB is wired to the panel components and left as is. I could look at retrofitting my folding mechanism to a bud enclosure but then the advantage of interoperability with my euro case design would be lost. Anyway thinking out aloud here.. Thanks for your feedback thus far!

[Sinamsis]

Do we really need another case for Buchla at this point? Domestic US builder at SAM/boops relative pricing would be great and save on shipping, but if the poster doesn’t understand or have not already done your home work on the modules specs and power requirements, including 200e lockup issues, etc., what is the value added here.

Yes. I would say we do. All cases follow the traditional Buchla paradigm. Yes they fold but not they don’t closed patched for the most part. They are not easy to carry. Most involve wood end cheeks which add to weight. And all are very expensive. So yes there is room for more cases IMO. And the research is happening here. He’s putting out feelers. Hearing concerns. I personally would encourage this.

[captnapalm]

I could also look at adapting my folding mechanism to existing bud enclosures but I'm afraid I'd not be bringing much to the table in that case.

The current bud boxes also need some significant modification to work with Buchla modules - the lip needs to be completely removed from the left and right sides, and trimmed down to be thinner on the top and bottom. This is all why people have been making boats at a significant cost.

[momo]

Cool project that I'm sure would attract interest. Regarding power, don't always assume existing solutions are the way to go, for example see this from Dave Brown https://modularsynthesis.com/buchla/cab ... abinet.htm. AFAIK he is not a 200e user, so that likely doesn't account for the 12c bus, but seems super elegant, as we would expect from Dave.

[batchas]

Yes they fold but not they don’t closed patched for the most part. They are not easy to carry. Most involve wood end cheeks which add to weight.

It's a shame when they are foldable and don't close patched.

I find the Buchla 18 cabinet very easy to carry for its size with its handle and its very light weight. I moved one from my storage (without modules) a couple of days ago and I forgot how light it was. I was surprised cause I'm really not in a good physical shape and it was really not a problem.
More difficult with the 24 cabinet, no handle, but of course more heavy by its size. Though boats and wood on these Buchla cabinets are pretty light compared to the concurrence.
Now when a 18 or 24 cabinet is full of modules, it's another story. But it is no matter what system you'll use.
For systems of this size, you have anyway to think of securing them if you travel. And it's not a bag that's gonna protect if you have to take the plane. So I don't see how light and easy it could turn.
I appreciated getting my Buchla 18 and 24 cabinets in a sturdy protective shipping case with cushy foam inserts. Makes them huge and more heavy, but way more secure.
I see all these very nice third-party cabinet solutions, they are foldable, but I don't think people travel with them anyway.
I think It is no coincidence that we can count artists on stage with original big Buchla cabinets (I don't speak of 12U or less) on the fingers of one hand.
Of course there's a financial aspect, but the portability is key. At least it is to me. I bought my first 200e system thinking I'd make concerts with it, casue the Preset Manager is killer for this matter, but never did because of transport.
When I see Suzanne Ciani (oversee!) or Kai Niggemann travelling with their gear, I have a lot of respect!

Just a brief aside: deleted. Instead, I'll make my first thread in the off-topic section cause I don't want to derail this thread with an unrelated anecdote that just came to mind.

Personally I don't think it is viable to make new cabinets, cases etc for the Bucha system (-15V/0V/+15V power, power distribution, i2c for "e" systems), as a few options already exist. But I'd be happy to be wrong.

LW modules for Serge going -12V/0V/+12V with Eurorack mounting conventions, would be an "easier" move for you having already the Eurorack solution. The power distribution is different, but the power is same.
You mention CGS/DIY, but don't forget that the modules going into LW cases can also be (if not all) DIY and CGS.
No idea how deep cases made by CLee, Julian, Delabelle are though, might be worth checking.

It would be great if you could also mount Serge R*S and STS (incl. Obelisk, M-Class diffences) in your solution, but you'll have to think about all the small difference which makes it difficult IMHO to find a solution that fits every "format". Here too, I'd be very happy to be wrong.

[exeterdown]

Sorry if I missed someone else mentioning them - but it'd be worth looking at what Alex at Keen Association is doing too. They have a couple of new cases coming out with carry bags - so I'm guessing they're trying to cater to a travel/gig market. Lots of nice ports on the back of their stuff too:

https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=209505

Happy to lend you a bunch of Buchla blanks if you need them to do tests

[Sinamsis]

Any progress on this project?

[amalgamod]

Any progress on this project?

Well... life went to shit shortly after making this post however things are starting to turn around now.. I have another batch of euro cases to build after which I'll get to onto it.

[ether]

Resurrecting this thread, as I’ve been bitten hard by the serge bug.

Dreaming of an Amalgamod / LW solution

[bpf]

Also attempting a resurrection of this thread and echoing the need for a case that can fold while patched for R*S Serge, LW, and Buchla… and Bugbrand, while we're at it!

[architexture]

I would definitely be in the market for a 16u folder

[guitargyro]

The need for more powered R*S boats of ANY kind is great IMO. Especially anything bigger than the usual panel/boat sized.

[bookends]

Oh yeah a 4 panel serge case like that would be NICE! Yes please.

[amalgamod]

Hi all,

Looping back on this..

Re: Buchla.. Can I ask what the minimum boat depth should be? My euro cases are 60mm which means the case can fold patched within carry-on spec (80mm gap between boats) although I'm sure most Buchla patches would involve stacked banana cables so I might need to let go of the idea of the case being able to close with a patch intact while being carry-on friendly. Clearance over the busboard would be ~45mm however in the case of a dual row boat the busboard can be repositioned to allow the full 60mm depth under either row. I'm aware this may not cover some older/deeper modules but do you think this is workable? The other option is to make it so the case can either fold unpatched and within carry-on spec. This means the boat depth would be more like 85mm deep (60mm over busboard). Or.. forget carry-on spec and make it as deep as it needs to be to accommodate patch cables and deeper modules.

From the little interest I've had there doesn't seem to be a clear winner between the different 4U formats. I've explored the option of a universal 4U case but the difference in mounting hole pitch is problematic. So if I go ahead I'll need to decide on a single format. Loudest Warning format would be easiest for me to adapt my design to given they use standard euro rails, otherwise I could potentially develop hardware adapted for one or two existing off the shelf 4U boats. It's all up in the air atm and given I've only had a handful of people express interest in any given format I'm not sure it's worth pursuing as the low qty's involved will drive up the price. If I can get say 20 people interested in either a LW 8U/16U case then I can make it happen within a reasonable time frame otherwise I'll may go ahead with a one-off run of 8U Buchla folding cases as that seems to be where the interest lies atm. Let me know your thoughts!