What do y'all use End Of Cycle/Rise triggers for?

[dtonthept]

Hey folks,

I've tried using an end of cycle signal to retrigger it's own envelope which is fun, but does anyone care to share a few tips or insights about using these to do cooler stuff? I have a feeling there's a whole universe I haven't discovered yet. Blowwwww myyyy miiiiiiinnnnd!

Thanks!

D

[nrdvrgr]

Have it trigger another envelope that controls the cutoff of a filter?
Have it trigger a switch/stepping a sequencer... that kind of stuff is what I usually use it for.

[Just me]

I'm using different end of cycles here to step sequencers, shift switches and reset an LFO.
[video][/video]

[cephalopod]

Something Ive had fun with is using an end of cycle to trigger a random voltage generator, the output of which is then used to control the rate of the envelope that you're taking the end of cycle from. This way you get a different random envelope length every time you trigger the envelope.

[dtonthept]

Ooooo very interesting! Integrating that into a sequencer sounds like a very cool idea indeed - gets you clear of normal clocks and all that right? Love using the end of rise to trigger a second envelope too, that has the potential to reshape a whole approach for me! And loving the random suggestion too. Can't wait to try these all out

That video was rad!!! I think I'll have to watch it ten more times to try to begin to absorb anything. Gotta say I chuckled out loud a few times, when you pan to the first rack I was all "whoah that's a huge system!!!" Then you panned to another.... And another!!! Beautiful setup.

Thanks again!

[moogboy]

I love mid-function triggers like that on extremely long envelopes/functions. My favorite thing is to have a really looooong ADSR/AD envelope going on an overall filter or VCA, then use the EOR/EOC/other mid-section triggers to modulate filters and other modifiers within that patch. It's great for morphing through sounds and creating movement.

[SubliminalSandwich]

Lots of good ideas here..

My maths is becoming more and more fun the more you talk.. (and i havent even turned it on yet.. )

[mallarme]

I'm using different end of cycles here to step sequencers, shift switches and reset an LFO.
[video][/video]

Hell yeah!

[dj_bluefalcon]

Something Ive had fun with is using an end of cycle to trigger a random voltage generator, the output of which is then used to control the rate of the envelope that you're taking the end of cycle from. This way you get a different random envelope length every time you trigger the envelope.

Definitely going to give this one a try. Thanks!

[mjuenke]

Which soft synths can do the End of Cycle Retrigger thing?

[wolfganggold]

I just got the Intellijel Quadrax and it's a blast! I'm definitely still learning its ins and outs but I'm starting to get a decent handle on it. This track is basically the Quadrax droning from channel to channel all set to EOF and Burst Mode of varying lengths. It's running into delay and reverb and the intermittent wooshy bits are me twiddling the Timbre knob on my Behringer Brains.

https://on.soundcloud.com/n1LKo

(editing to say: the droning bit running throughout is my Grandmother...forgot about that hahah)

[Hovmod]

Send a regular, steady clock to your EG and adjust the envelope so that EOC lands at some point that isn't exactly halfway between the incoming triggers. Use a logic module to output both the EG input trigger (perhaps use a mult to share it with the EG) and the EOC trigger, and you have introduced swing. Modulate the rise or fall time to 'bother' the swing timing for that non-robotic feel.

I get bored and frustrated when my patch becomes repetitious and predictable, and looping EGs with EOC output are my go-to tool to insert 'surprise' events. Currently, I have a patch where I use two sequencers, one for notes and one for filter cutoff. The filter sequencer clock is an EOC trigger, and I use another EOC trigger (much slower, and completely divorced from the master clock) to send reset to both sequencers. This is often enough to keep the music interesting.

If you input audio rate signals to your Maths, you can divide the frequency by tweaking rise/fall and get a faux square wave sub output on the EOC trigger output.

I often treat EOR/EOC as 'smart' clock mults. Maths or whatever gets its trigger and does its thing, and from EOR/EOC I get another trigger that can be manipulated.

[KSS]

Quadrature output -like the Buchla 281- is a classic use. See Dave Brown's post about it on his modulsrsynthesis.com site.

Use EOA/R to start an LFO for delayed wobbly sustain -mixing the LFO with the EG output. Use for tremolo, vibrato, filter cutoff/Q..

Use with a shorting switch to silence some part of your patch. moog VtoStrig patchcord circuit.

Use with diode patchcords to steer one-of many sources to a patch destination.

Use with an diff-input VCA, inverter or mixer to do similar manipulation of a patch.

[mosorensen]

Something Ive had fun with is using an end of cycle to trigger a random voltage generator, the output of which is then used to control the rate of the envelope that you're taking the end of cycle from. This way you get a different random envelope length every time you trigger the envelope.

Definitely going to give this one a try. Thanks!

Check out the "Krell Patch". This idea about using the end-of-cycle trigger to start a new randomized note is the essence of that patch.

[deecalk1]

I use them often to "choke" other elements, similar to closing an open hi-hat. Great for rolls and fills so you can stop them immediately without bleeding into the next hit.

[colb]

They're handy as trigger delays

e.g. you can build a two stage Shift register using one channel of a Rampage, and a dual sample and hold module.
You use the trigger delay mechanism to control the order of operation
so you can shift stage 1 to 2, with the raw trigger into S&H 2
then pitch CV to 1 using the end of rise into S&H 1
then update the source pitch CV using the EOC...

That way you have three note CVs, two delayed ones from the Sample and Hold stages, and one directly from whatever your CV source is. It can get quite funky if you modulate the ramp times, you can get some nice staggered timing effects between the notes.

[adamj]

Quadrature output -like the Buchla 281- is a classic use. See Dave Brown's post about it on his modulsrsynthesis.com site.

For reference, it's this article (scroll down to the "Quadrature" section): https://modularsynthesis.com/roman/buch ... 81_qfg.htm
There's some nice pictures that make the concept clear.
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Use with diode patchcords to steer one-of many sources to a patch destination.

I had not heard of these before. I'm not getting a lot of insight from Google... Are they similar to passive switched mults like this? https://intellijel.com/shop/eurorack/1u ... d-mult-1u/
Otherwise, how do you "steer" it? Does anyone sell them or is it more of a DIY thing? Having more routing flexibility in 0HP would be nice!

[antonriehl]

I like to use a really slow rise speed (like 5-10 minutes or more) that will shape and modulate many other sounds, including bring them in from silence). I’ll then use the EOR to trigger an “event”, which might be a big hit, percussion, shift in tempo, etc. but basically use that as a way to shape an overall performance



EDIT: I just used a variation of this over the weekend, short rise time, and then used the EOR to trigger a chord and hit. So they were these swooshes with a chord afterwards.

[KSS]

Quadrature output -like the Buchla 281- is a classic use. See Dave Brown's post about it on his modulsrsynthesis.com site.

For reference, it's this article (scroll down to the "Quadrature" section): https://modularsynthesis.com/roman/buch ... 81_qfg.htm
There's some nice pictures that make the concept clear.

Thanks for adding the link!
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Use with diode patchcords to steer one-of many sources to a patch destination.

I had not heard of these before. I'm not getting a lot of insight from Google...

A search of my posts here might be bear more fruit. I've written about them -and some related types of useful special function patchcords quite a few times now.

Otherwise, how do you "steer" it?

The concept of 'steering' diodes is found in many circuit descriptions and a good and simple example is a basic AD EG. Where the incoming gate is steered towards the attack pot and not the decay pot because the series diode to the attack pot faces one way and the series diode to the decay-release pot faces the other way. Diodes create one-way 'streets' in circuits, so for the gate this is like seeing the decay path with a Do not enter. One way only! sign while the attack pot has no sign like that going this direction
The diodes 'steer' the incoming gate toward one of two choices in this example. When the gate goes low, the stored charge on a capacitor that was charging up in voltage through the attack pot is now steered to and through the decay pot. Because the capacitor side of the AD spilt paths has its Do not enter 'sign' on the attack 'street'.

The diodes steer rising voltage through the attack pot, and falling voltage through the decay-release pot.

A second useful property of diodes is that they require a certain voltage pressure-level before they let anything through. And different diode types have different levels. So they are like mini-comparators with a fixed threshold based on their type. The lowest threshold -called forward voltage in diodes- is a germanium or Shottky type at around 0.3V. Next is the usual silicon type of which 1n4148 is by far the most often used in synths. Its Vf is about 0.6V. Then you have LEDs -not used for light in this case- which have Vf -aka forward Voltages- that vary depending on their color -because different colors use different elements- and these can have thresholds as high as 3-4V.

Knowing this you could use 4 or 5 different diode types coming into or out of a mult and have the result split or 'steered' to different places and possibly at different times because a sloped voltage -like an LFO or VCOs saw, ramp, triangle or sine- will hit their various thresholds at different points.

Does anyone sell them or is it more of a DIY thing? Having more routing flexibility in 0HP would be nice!

I first started talking about them a few years ago and kept saying 'someone' should make them. As far as I know, to date no one has done so except as DIY. About a month ago I saw this lack -because I've typed what's above *many* times now!- and started to work towards making them available and hope to have them in synth stores this year possibly as early as Summer.

In the mean time anyone can experiment with any diode which has legs. Simply wrap one diode leg around each tip of two separate patchcords and if not secure use a little scotch or masking tape -electrical tape gets gummy-messy and is not a first choice- to help it stay together. If you've got alligator clips you can use them instead but really the wrapped legs works fine too. The two patchords so joined are now a diode patchcord with one-way properties with a little threshold comparator action built in too.

If you used a normal diode there will be a band on one end. This the 'stop sign' direction. The one way street flows from the other end towards this band. On a circuit schematic there is a triangle and a line. The line corresponds to the physical band on the part itself. This is the Cathode sometimes abbreviated as K. the triangle end is the Anode and if you see the resemblance to a capital A it helps to remember A-node. And the triangle looks like an arrow pointing the one way direction.

But don't worry about all that for now. Just twist some legs together and make a couple and try them out!

To get over the problem of length, the ones for the stores will be little 'capsules' with a female jack at each end and a band on one end. They'll look like a diode! Usable with the patchcords you already have and like. Pricing is aimed to be similar to stackcables

Am also working to have attenuating, V-to-Strig, capacitor and Zener* type patchcord capsules too.

*A zener is a type of diode which is *not* fully one-way. It would be like the toll bridges where one direction has more lanes than the other. Flow is easier in one direction than the other. If you accidentally -or purposefully- use one of these diodes in your DIY diode patchcord you might get confused if I didn't mention the difference. Zeners are available in all kinds of voltage levels from low to very high.I'd suggest sticking with the basic diodes and LEDs first.

[authorless]

Send the end of cycle trigger into a trigger delay and you can get a looping envelope with a setting to have the envelope off for a set amount of time before it starts again.

[adamj]

Does anyone sell them or is it more of a DIY thing? Having more routing flexibility in 0HP would be nice!

About a month ago I saw this lack -because I've typed what's above *many* times now!- and started to work towards making them available and hope to have them in synth stores this year possibly as early as Summer.

That's awesome. I will keep an eye out. I'm trying not to derail this thread, but do you have a company/brand name? I assume you'll announce something on MW when things are shipping.

In the mean time anyone can experiment with any diode which has legs.
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It's great that I can experiment with things like this without even learning to solder. TBH I didn't completely follow your explanations and I can't picture what envelopes and EOR/EOC triggers + "steering" dioides are actually going to do, but now I can try it for myself and find out. Thanks for the info!

[grayghost]

Logic-inverting the end-of-cycle trigger (i.e. NOT(X), 5V-X) can yield a clock divider, provided that the EG does not respond to new triggers before it completes its cycle. EG like Serge USG have this behavior, ordinary ADSR's do not.

The divided output can be sent to another EG, and so on, to produce rhythmically linked envelope streams. Because the end-of-cycle output transitions from high to low upon receiving the next input trigger, the inverted output will transition low to high, and thus be in sync with the input triggers. The envelope time has to be longer than the period between input triggers.