Is there a PA expert on this flight? Please influence my purchase!

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coldstorage
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Is there a PA expert on this flight? Please influence my purchase!

Post by coldstorage »

Long story short: I need to buy an irresponsibly loud PA for a new small warehouse venue I am opening and I have some questions.

Short story long: As mentioned elsewhere on the forum I just signed a lease on my new venture which will be hourly rehearsal spaces in the front of the building and online retails (physical music media) out of the back. Im ripping walls to studs and staggering them and adding clay wraps ob the outlets and crazy expensive rockwool and double sheet rock with crazy expensive green glue and, and, and…

Backline for ea room is:
1x Marshall JCM 2000 half stack
1x Roland Jazz Chorus 20000
1x Ampeg SVT III and 4x10 can
1x Pearl Export kit
2x 1,000w peak ea PA speakers (Brand TBD)
1x unpowered mixer (probably Mackie)

Now, there is one BIG room in the middle that I want to book the occasional show in. The bills would be exclusively Noise or Industrial with audiences ranging from 20-100 people. Both artist and audience will expect volume levels that make a sane person cringe. Room is about 30x40 feet.

Im really scattered on what I should be hunting. I wish I knew the right questions to ask but how are thesefor a start…

-What wattage should I be aiming for?
-Am I correct in my hunch I need a rackmount PA and Passive speakers to achieve massive volume? (Powered speakers seem to mostly hover around 1000w peak for the most part with a few options in the 2,000-3,000 range)
-Why is there such a MASSIVE price disparity in the PAs? I see similarl specs on units ranging from like $300 up to $3,000 and I gotta wonder why this range is so wide. I mean in a guitar amp this is like unethically sourced labor vs hand wired boutique but whats driving the gap in pro audio amplification?

Budget: I hoped to keep under 3k but if that isnt realistic im flexible.

Anyone here fancy themselves an expert and want to hold my hand a little?
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Kent
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Re: Is there a PA expert on this flight? Please influence my purchase!

Post by Kent »

Totally within my wheelhouse. We should set up a chat over VOIP. What works for you? I’m 6 hours ahead of EST, which is 9 hours ahead of PST.

An adequate answer would take far too much time to type up and I’d like to steer you in the right direction.

Shoot me a PM and we’ll set up a chat.
coldstorage
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Re: Is there a PA expert on this flight? Please influence my purchase!

Post by coldstorage »

Incredibly generous of you Kent.
I’ll message you now to arrange.
Technologear?
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Re: Is there a PA expert on this flight? Please influence my purchase!

Post by Technologear? »

Please post what you end up choosing, I love this stuff too. I get excited by the prospect of crossover points and tuning systems while a room is full of bodies (you could totally do that at a noise gig!)
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Ichor&Gore
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Re: Is there a PA expert on this flight? Please influence my purchase!

Post by Ichor&Gore »

I think you should consider limiters. I was involved and participated in the NW noise scene and saw many a speaker blow. Masami Akita was one such person. He was kind enough to reimburse the venue but that was a rare occurrence.

Dbx drive rack comes to mind.
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Kent
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Re: Is there a PA expert on this flight? Please influence my purchase!

Post by Kent »

Limiters are a good idea. The speakers we discussed have limiters built into them. Given the venue and audience, I would again suggest starting small and only adding components on an "as needed" basis.
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Voltcontrol
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Re: Is there a PA expert on this flight? Please influence my purchase!

Post by Voltcontrol »

coldstorage wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:31 pm Long story short: I need to buy an irresponsibly loud PA for a new small warehouse venue I am opening and I have some questions.

Short story long: As mentioned elsewhere on the forum I just signed a lease on my new venture which will be hourly rehearsal spaces in the front of the building and online retails (physical music media) out of the back. Im ripping walls to studs and staggering them and adding clay wraps ob the outlets and crazy expensive rockwool and double sheet rock with crazy expensive green glue and, and, and…

Backline for ea room is:
1x Marshall JCM 2000 half stack
1x Roland Jazz Chorus 20000
1x Ampeg SVT III and 4x10 can
1x Pearl Export kit
2x 1,000w peak ea PA speakers (Brand TBD)
1x unpowered mixer (probably Mackie)

Now, there is one BIG room in the middle that I want to book the occasional show in. The bills would be exclusively Noise or Industrial with audiences ranging from 20-100 people. Both artist and audience will expect volume levels that make a sane person cringe. Room is about 30x40 feet.

Im really scattered on what I should be hunting. I wish I knew the right questions to ask but how are thesefor a start…

-What wattage should I be aiming for?
-Am I correct in my hunch I need a rackmount PA and Passive speakers to achieve massive volume? (Powered speakers seem to mostly hover around 1000w peak for the most part with a few options in the 2,000-3,000 range)
-Why is there such a MASSIVE price disparity in the PAs? I see similarl specs on units ranging from like $300 up to $3,000 and I gotta wonder why this range is so wide. I mean in a guitar amp this is like unethically sourced labor vs hand wired boutique but whats driving the gap in pro audio amplification?

Budget: I hoped to keep under 3k but if that isnt realistic im flexible.

Anyone here fancy themselves an expert and want to hold my hand a little?
Occasional use = Rent.
I ran a local club for alt/rock bands/theatre and big dj gigs, we required a (very good) sound guy for PA to get optimum sound for the bands, and he came with his own sound system for a very acceptable amount.

We ran a smaller installed PA system (well it was acually a big 4 way JBL shebang with massive horns) for smaller dj gigs/dance nights, a local company installed it including custom sound treatment (having the room sound treated was magic, much better acoustics even with the system off). Cost a LOT of money but the events we ran paid for it easily. It's really a cost/benefit thing to look at from that perspective imho. Also having service if things go wrong is woth a lot.

If you do choose to buy outright: Price difference when buying systems= quality and reliability next to obviously power differences. RCF is a really dependable and performant brand you can just buy and install.
If budget really is an issue, used might be an option..
Gaun Yersel!
coldstorage
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Re: Is there a PA expert on this flight? Please influence my purchase!

Post by coldstorage »

Thanks all.

Kent gave me great, concise advice with some easy to understand technical explanations that led me to a few options on the larger system. For the smaller rooms it looking like Yamaha DBRs most likely 15s maybe 12s.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proaudi ... index.html

He also helped me read between the marketing lines and make better comparisons. A really generous consult.

Going to really rerun the numbers on rental but Ive tried to call around to PA rental places and they dont seem to rent brands I want to try and the prices are higher than I would have guessed. Back of the napkin, it seems to me, assuming I get any salvage value from my system, that I might be better off buying. Plus, after hearing some quotes Im thinking I may even put mine up for rent.
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*Bear*
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Re: Is there a PA expert on this flight? Please influence my purchase!

Post by *Bear* »

Our bloc sound system (Mobius Acoustics) would be ideal for this application, but not cheap. System runs $10k including amps. Hi Fi, compact, and volume without distortion or resonant peaks. Patented tech in the subs for new physics on pathway for waves to move inside a box, invented by former Muff member Anthony Bisset.
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*Bear*
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Re: Is there a PA expert on this flight? Please influence my purchase!

Post by *Bear* »

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