Moog Model 10

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Synth Con Meo
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Moog Model 10

Post by Synth Con Meo »

It appears that Moog is going to be return to producing the Model 10.

Moog Model 10 returns
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KSS
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by KSS »

Unless they add jacks to it, using the 4 space FFB is dumb.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by analogsteve »

KSS wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:47 am Unless they add jacks to it, using the 4 space FFB is dumb.
If it didn't come with that exact FFB, it wouldn't be a Model 10.
While I can totally appreciate your point of view, I can also appreciate the historical accuracy of the Moog modular reissues. I know it doesn't always make practical sense, but it is oddly refreshing in a time when so many "reissues" bear only a superficial resemblance to their forbearers.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by KSS »

That's why I said dumb, not wrong.

And let's not get started on any supposed historical accuracy claims. Moog themselves shot that down already. The other modulars moog re-issued have radial capacitors on PCBs made for axial types. And axial types are still available. <--More importantly axial types will survive gigging *much* better than radial when radial are not mounted on PCBs with pads made for radial caps. Put radial caps on PCBs made for radial caps and put axial caps on these PCBs if you're going to claim historical accuracy. Because that's what the old caps and PCBs were.

Edit: Here's a shot of an old and new moog with the different cap typed circled. It's important to say that there probably isn't any difference in the sound using the radial caps. But the structural integrity is most definitely compromised. They could have laid the radial caps down flat on the PCB and used some electronics grade silicone to keep them in place during movement and travel. But instead they've left them standing up and the leads are outstretched to the old hole positions. Like a gymnast doing an iron cross on the rings. They've also changed capacitor type from tantalum bullets to aluminum electrolytics. To make this an accurate exchange the new ones need a parallel smaller cap to make up for the poorer response of the new caps.

Would it have hurt to put two more pads appropriate to the radial caps at which point the PCBs could reliably handle either capacitor type?
The idea that we must keep it all original only works if that's actually done. People are paying a high price for something which is arguably less structurally sound.

None of this is meant to imply that your point is not also valid. I'm only pointing out how they've done neither the historical accuracy claimed OR the best practice for the parts they actually used. It's the disconnect between what they said and what they did that is troubling. Most musicians won't know the difference. And to be totally clear, this is *not* about capacitor sound, or how these different caps might change it. It is totally about integrity and worse structural reality that can absolutely show up in use if these are gigged.

It could be argued that the use of 1/4W resistors instead of the larger 1/2W of the originals -also seen in the photo- 'could' have an effect on the sound. I won't argue that. But if we're going to say it needs to be the same, then here's another example of how it isn't. 1/2W resistors are still easily available. So it's not a case where they couldn't use them if historical accuracy was actually the intent and goal..
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analogsteve
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by analogsteve »

Fair enough. I suppose I should have said " relative historical accuracy". Carry on.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by SynthBaron »

I wonder who is making their panels now since Resynthesis disappeared off the face of the earth.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by mor4sso »

i think if you're concerned about mechanical/structural reliability, axial vs radial caps is a non-issue.

parts availability on the other hand....
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by Lama »

They are already out in the wild. I have one in stock in my shop.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by Sir Ruff »

I think it’s kind of funny that on the same day S-W announced their own far more affordable and also practical version of the 10.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by SynthBaron »

I can't recall ever seeing a radial cap in any R.A. Moog or original Moog Music product on a printed circuit board.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by SynthBaron »

Sir Ruff wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:25 pm I think it’s kind of funny that on the same day S-W announced their own far more affordable and also practical version of the 10.
The new Moog one boasts better calibration stability. With complaints about the S-W 901's behaving badly, I wonder how they compare.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by KSS »

mor4sso wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:52 pm i think if you're concerned about mechanical/structural reliability, axial vs radial caps is a non-issue.
As a tech for more than 40 years I disagree. The example shown is not the most egregious, only the first and easiest to share. My comments are based on practical experience not idle supposition.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by umma gumma »

That is odd about the capacitors, especially if axial are readily available. If you went through and replaced them all, would collectors scream bloody murder, or would it be seen as more desireable? :D

I have seen original radial caps mounted in old gear ( 1969-71 ) in place of axial, but they were mounted the other way: with the leads bent back past the length of the body & the can suspended up in the air, like an "A".

The leads also had insulated clear tubing around them.

I was wondering if that was a stronger way of mounting them, when I saw it. Maybe the assembler was bored, or an ex-gymnast?

They were small caps though.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by winn3r »

Sir Ruff wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:25 pm I think it’s kind of funny that on the same day S-W announced their own far more affordable and also practical version of the 10.
Theirs has been available for a while now. The FB post was probably just in response to the Moog announcement.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by SynthBaron »

"Moog tells us the 2022 version of the Model 10 is priced at $11,999"

eeeeeeeeeeee
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by Back Down the Path »

SynthBaron wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:42 pm "Moog tells us the 2022 version of the Model 10 is priced at $11,999"

eeeeeeeeeeee
11,999?? Why? You could have a totally bloated euro collection for that, one large enough to make a you feel weirdly depressed. If a $12,000 synth doesn’t cause me to ponder the meaning of existence and wonder how many years I actually have left, I’m not interested!
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by ws9848 »

I would rather have a moog than a totally bloated euro collection
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by Sir Ruff »

winn3r wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:58 pm
Sir Ruff wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:25 pm I think it’s kind of funny that on the same day S-W announced their own far more affordable and also practical version of the 10.
Theirs has been available for a while now. The FB post was probably just in response to the Moog announcement.
Ah yes, true. I appreciated their post as a timely jab either way.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by Dave Peck »

Back Down the Path wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:04 pm
SynthBaron wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:42 pm "Moog tells us the 2022 version of the Model 10 is priced at $11,999"

eeeeeeeeeeee
11,999?? Why? You could have a totally bloated euro collection for that
You could also have an enormous and excellent MU collection for that. A lot of the people in this subforum already have one.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by Back Down the Path »

I feel like my brand of sarcasm has been lost in translation on the 5u forum. I’ll see myself out!
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by mor4sso »

KSS wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:50 pm
mor4sso wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:52 pm i think if you're concerned about mechanical/structural reliability, axial vs radial caps is a non-issue.
My comments are based on practical experience not idle supposition.
as are mine... I suppose our individual experiences have informed us differently.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by mr221 »

I wonder if moog has any plans on producing individual modules for people to use in their 5U systems. If one was to pluck a module out of the moog pre-made system, would it work in a 5u dotcom setup?
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by kdjupdal »

No, Moog is incompatible with MU as wily noted here:
viewtopic.php?p=3157529#p3157529
They'll probably not produce individual modules. Why would they? The Moog system is for purists and it wouldn't make sense to mix with other 5u modules.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by SynthBaron »

You can already buy Synth-Werk individual modules if you really wanted original circuitry that is Dotcom power and gate compatible.
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Re: Moog Model 10

Post by synthcube »

No, its not for everyone, and all the points about comparisons between this and others synths and formats are valid. All that said, for us, it's a promising investment on the part of Moog and one we elect to support via our shop. Best case, a few of these make their way into the hands of enthusiasts through synthCube. Worst case, we end up with one or two long-term for the permanent collection :)
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