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ES-9 standalone summing?

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os
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os »

Not quite clear what you want to do.

PC -> USB -> ES-9 -> S/PDIF -> MPC ?

ES-9 inputs -> S/PDIF -> where exactly?
theTwiddler
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by theTwiddler »

os wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 2:32 am Not quite clear what you want to do.

PC -> USB -> ES-9 -> S/PDIF -> MPC ?

ES-9 inputs -> S/PDIF -> where exactly?
I guess i need a es 8 instead of the 9. I want to use the mpc to mix single tracks from the euro and maybe some looping. Then i want to send them via adat into my rme interface to use the rmemixer for send fx and mixing. And it should also work in standalone as a routing device to send audio via toslink from modular to the rme interface. After reading the manual etc it seems definitly possible. I need t sell my es 9 now. Its already in the wts ebay reverb etc. thread.
nodens
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by nodens »

By now I managed (mostly thanks to this thread) to get my head around the routing in Web UI.

However, I can't help but think it could be more immediate with just a few UI tweak, that sadly I'm unable to implement since I suck at html/css/js (I did try :lol:)

DISCLAIMER: I don't know how to write html/css/js, and I don't know how to design an UI. I'm more of a network/system guy 8-)


What I was imagining:

transpose row and columns for the USB routerbox (dsp01_table):
InputsUSB busoutputs
(selector menu) 11 (selector menu)
(selector menu) 22 (selector menu)
(selector menu) 33 (selector menu)
(selector menu)1616 (selector menu)
That would save a lot of real estate, and maybe also clearer by making sure it's more square (maybe the middle "→ USB →" label could be more clear, hence the "USB Bus" above).

For the mixers, I wouldn't transpose them, their orientation is fine, but I would suggest
- having just one bloc per mixer to select the inputs (mix 1 inputs) and ditch the output in the mixer box
- for each mix, display a selector to choose the output
- put the checkbox for mix smoothing there, next to the selector

Maybe the same could be done for input EQ: add a checkbox next to the input selection.

I also think it could look nicer and easier to read (using different colors and some shadows for instance), but I even less of a graphic designer than a front-end dev or UI designer, I'll pass…

(the alternate mixer by odaacabeef looks very nice, but it might notbe readable enough for a config tool?)

What do you wigglers think ?
aze_007
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by aze_007 »

Hi Lars,

just getting into this conversation and trying to understand what you are saying here. So do I understand that you have connected your iPad with USB C to the ES-9. And the EC4 via the MIDI Extension to the ES-9. But then I am confused what is the difference between you using AUM to control the faders or the EC4, or is the latter for different purposes.

Thanks for clarifying this.

BR, Alexander

LDT wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:11 am
AnalogueRoots wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:37 am
Anyway, in terms of the basic connections, do I just plug in a stereo cable each from the in and out of the EC4, to the in and out of the MIDIXO? Then, I connect my iPad Pro directly via the USB-C to my ES-9?
Yes and yes.

Regarding the rest of your questions, I just have to sum it up as: Forget the stand-alone mode. Make your life simpler and more fun, - always go through AUM on your iPad. :sb:

For a long period I used stand-alone mode with EC4, and it works just fine. But when I found out how good the iPad stuff had gotten, there was just no going back. And yes, you can route everything to everything in AUM, and that goes for both midi and audio.
Setting your system up to work both with iPad and without iPad, first of all makes it more complicated for you brain to navigate what “mode” you are in. (But maybe that is just me).
But I think you will find that woking with AUM has so many advantages, that it will not make sense not to just let it be a permanent part of your system. To mention a few:
- Mute and solo pr channel. So damn convenient to have.
- A natural fader response. Somehow the curvature of the ES-9 audio fading does not feel right to me, when controlled by remote knob (like, the action is lumped in the upper third). But the faders of AUM feels just right.
- Use the outputs of ES-9 for cv: I am using several outs for random gates with probability control, using EC4 for probability and clock speed control. (I have set it up in Drambo inside AUM.)
- Obviously using FX in AUM. In particular the “boring” type of stuff that you do not want to fill your modular rack with, meaning stuff you set up, but rarely touch. All the little things that in the end gives you a better mix. (The latest thing I added was a couple of subtle noise gates on two modules that just has a bit more static noise than I like.) But also the more hands-on type of FX, and then I assign one or two knobs to EC4.
- Multitrack recording everything is just pressing a button.

Anyway, that is just how I see things.
I’d be happy to show you more in detail how I have setup stuff in AUM, if that is of interest. But in general AUM is VERY easy to work with.
Euro and nothing else - but isn't that enough?
Member of the 100x100 Club of Dieter Doepfer Supporters.
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LDT
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by LDT »

aze_007 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:06 am Hi Lars,

just getting into this conversation and trying to understand what you are saying here. So do I understand that you have connected your iPad with USB C to the ES-9. And the EC4 via the MIDI Extension to the ES-9. But then I am confused what is the difference between you using AUM to control the faders or the EC4, or is the latter for different purposes.

Thanks for clarifying this.

BR, Alexander

LDT wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:11 am
AnalogueRoots wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:37 am
Anyway, in terms of the basic connections, do I just plug in a stereo cable each from the in and out of the EC4, to the in and out of the MIDIXO? Then, I connect my iPad Pro directly via the USB-C to my ES-9?
Yes and yes.

Regarding the rest of your questions, I just have to sum it up as: Forget the stand-alone mode. Make your life simpler and more fun, - always go through AUM on your iPad. :sb:

For a long period I used stand-alone mode with EC4, and it works just fine. But when I found out how good the iPad stuff had gotten, there was just no going back. And yes, you can route everything to everything in AUM, and that goes for both midi and audio.
Setting your system up to work both with iPad and without iPad, first of all makes it more complicated for you brain to navigate what “mode” you are in. (But maybe that is just me).
But I think you will find that woking with AUM has so many advantages, that it will not make sense not to just let it be a permanent part of your system. To mention a few:
- Mute and solo pr channel. So damn convenient to have.
- A natural fader response. Somehow the curvature of the ES-9 audio fading does not feel right to me, when controlled by remote knob (like, the action is lumped in the upper third). But the faders of AUM feels just right.
- Use the outputs of ES-9 for cv: I am using several outs for random gates with probability control, using EC4 for probability and clock speed control. (I have set it up in Drambo inside AUM.)
- Obviously using FX in AUM. In particular the “boring” type of stuff that you do not want to fill your modular rack with, meaning stuff you set up, but rarely touch. All the little things that in the end gives you a better mix. (The latest thing I added was a couple of subtle noise gates on two modules that just has a bit more static noise than I like.) But also the more hands-on type of FX, and then I assign one or two knobs to EC4.
- Multitrack recording everything is just pressing a button.

Anyway, that is just how I see things.
I’d be happy to show you more in detail how I have setup stuff in AUM, if that is of interest. But in general AUM is VERY easy to work with.
AUM is my mixer, and is controlling the channel volumes at all times. (Which, to be clear, channel levels are handled in AUM, not in ES-9, so the ES-9 does not recieve any midi cc.)
I use EC4 to control faders, sends etc in AUM. (All these controls can be handled via the touch screen, but having real knobs is so much nicer.)

Does that answer your question?
aze_007
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by aze_007 »

Thanks Lars, I think I got it.

Best regards, Alexander
Euro and nothing else - but isn't that enough?
Member of the 100x100 Club of Dieter Doepfer Supporters.
Jazz007_wtw
Learning to Wiggle
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by Jazz007_wtw »

Hi, I used this exact same setup and really happy with it except the pre fader sends. Is there any way to make them post fader?? Im still quite confused by the mixer section hahaha. THANK YOU!

BEST,
W
Jazz007_wtw
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 2
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by Jazz007_wtw »

mr_karlos wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:27 pm
dangayle wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:29 pm I’m really curious if I can get my Faderfox MX12 + ES-9 to replace the core functionality of the WMD performance mixer. Can you configure the ES-9 to handle effects sends?
I have my ES-9 configured as an 8 into 2 mixer with two mono sends returning to two stereo aux channels. I also have master faders for master, phones, aux1 and aux 2.

The configuration is:
options.png
Options: Mixer 2 # This gives the configuration the extra channels for aux returns and master faders 'Mixer 2' (as opposed to the SDIF inputs)

Mixer ins and outs
Mixer (1)
Mixer1.png
Ins
Mix1:1 to Mix in 1:8 are mapped to the physical inputs 1 to 8
Outs
Mix1:1 and Mix1:2 are mapped to Bus 1/2 which are stereo linked, All physcal ins go to Bus 1/2
Mix1:3 to Mix1:8 are mapped to the physical outs 1 to 6, these are the mono sends

Mixer 2
Mixer2.png
Ins
Mix2:1 and Mix2:2 are mapped to Physical Input 11/12 which are stereo linked, this is stereo return 1
Mix2:3 and Mix2:4 are mapped to Physical Input 13/14 which are stereo linked, this is stereo return 2
Mix2:5 and Mix2:6 are mapped to Bus1/2, again stereo linked, this creates a submix for the physical ins and returns on mixer 2
Mix2:7 and Mix2:8 are mapped to Bus9/10, stereo linked. This is the final mix bus which is set out of Main L/R and Phones
Outs
Mix2:1 and Mix 2:2 are mapped to physical ins 7 and 8. I don't use these
Mix2:3 and Mix2:4 (aka Mix9 and Mix10) are mapped to Bus 9/10, Mix9/10 are stereo linked.
Mix2:5 and Mix2:6 (aka Mix13/14) are mapped to Main Out L/R, stereo linked. This fader for the main output
Mix2:7 and mix2:8 (aka Mix15/16) are mapped to Phones L/R. This is the master fader for phones output


Stereo Links:
StereoLinks.png
Inputs 11/12, 13/14 # these are the stereo returns
Bus 1/2 # This is the initial mix bus
Bus 9/10 # This is the master out bus
Mix 1/2, Mix 9/10, Mix 11/12, Mix 15/16

All the magic happens on Mixer 2
Screenshot 2021-02-18 at 00.51.10.png
Ignore Mix 9/10
Mix 11/12 mix the main inputs (1 to 8) on Bus 1/2 with the aux returns (11/12, 13/14). The fader for Bus 9/10 MUST be Inf dB. This mix is sent to Bus 9/10
Mix 13/14 is the Main Out fader. Only Bus 9/10 should be used here. Channels 11/12, 13/14 and Bus 1/2 must be at Inf dB
Mix 15/16 is the Headphone out


Midi CC's
The midi CC's start at 0 for mix1:1 and increment logically. If the config above the CC's are roughly...
Ins 1 to 8 Gain Fader -> CC 0 to 7
Ins 1 to 8 Pan -> CC 8 to 15
Ins 1 to 8 Send1 (output 1) -> CC 16 to 23
Ins 1 to 8 Send2 (output 2) -> CC 24 to 28
Aux Return 1 gain (input 11/12) -> CC 80
Aux Return 1 pan (input 11/12) -> CC 81
Aux Return 2 gain (input 13/14) -> CC 82
Aux Return 2 pan (input 13/14) -> CC 83

Master Fader gain -> CC 102
Master Fader pan -> CC 110

Headphones Fader gain -> CC 118
Headphones Pan -> CC 119

You can control all this on a FaderFox but I prefer to use MidiDesigner Pro as it has memory and can be configured for mutes/solos. MDP can also be configured for SysEx so I have a setup to control the EQ section. I have a video on YouTube with a demo of the above config with MDP


One important point. The mixer sends are pre-fader.

Hope this helps, I use this config a majority of the time
Karl
Hi Karl is there a way to set this up with the sends post fader?? Or does anyone know if this is possible?? Thanks ! WW
nodens
Learning to Wiggle
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by nodens »

Jazz007_wtw wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:39 am Hi Karl is there a way to set this up with the sends post fader?? Or does anyone know if this is possible?? Thanks ! WW
I guess if you're willing to give up as many channels as you want post fader eq using buses; i.e. you could for instance send the in of the first mixer to bus 1-8 use the second mixer to output bus 1-8 to your 8 outs…

If I get correctly what you meant, that is 😅
mr_karlos
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by mr_karlos »

Jazz007_wtw wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:39 am Hi Karl is there a way to set this up with the sends post fader?? Or does anyone know if this is possible?? Thanks ! WW
I looked at post fader send but it either needs a few more mix blocks in the ES-9 or it would need linked CC controllers. For example, if channel 1 volume is 70% and send is set to 5% then the controller would need to be 70% of 5%. This may be possible using MDP and the StreamByter plugin but would be a pain to implement and maintain.

I would say if you are getting to post fader sends and you want to use a control surface then it is time to use the ES-9, a DAW and a control surface that controls the DAW. I've used AUM on my iPad and iPhone.

BW - Karl
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