Super Sixteen build support thread

Creator of of the Super Sixteen Sequencer and based in San Francisco. This is a DIY and Finished Good product for Eurorack.

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aanuit
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by aanuit »

The BOM specifies the type of resistors. Some resistors are carbon 5%, some are metal 1%.
Would it be possible to use metal 1% for all?
What's the downside doing that?
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extralifedisco
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by extralifedisco »

aanuit wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 4:36 am The BOM specifies the type of resistors. Some resistors are carbon 5%, some are metal 1%.
Would it be possible to use metal 1% for all?
What's the downside doing that?
Metal 1% would be perfectly fine for all resistors. I think I mostly tried to use whatever was available in large quantity to make shopping easy for the BOM but generally, 10k is 10k so feel free to use what you have on hand. Using 1% resistors in the feedback loop for the op amp helps make the pitch 1v/oct output tuning more consistent, but it still needs to be calibrated manually.
aanuit
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by aanuit »

Thanks for the quick answer!
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DCDanno
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by DCDanno »

SirAdrianFish wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 3:40 am Hello @DCDanno.

Thank you for our replay. The calibration procedur worked without any problems.

I just located the problem and solved the issue. The Pitch-Potentiometer had a loose contact and I did not tighten the hex nuts enough, so they had a little slack.

At a first glance, everything seems to funktion the way it should, but I am stil testing.
Great! Glad it was an easy fix. Hope everything else works as expected. Enjoy!
aanuit
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by aanuit »

Another question about the memory IC....
W25Q40CLSNIG 1 Winbond W25Q40CLSNIG NOR Flash Serial (SPI, Dual SPI, Quad SPI) 2.5V/3V/3.3V 4M-bit 512K x 8 8ns 8-Pin SOIC Tube W25Q40CLSNIG - original part was W25Q80DVSN
What's the difference between W25Q40CLSNIG and W25Q80DVSN?
Does it matter which one is installed?
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extralifedisco
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by extralifedisco »

aanuit wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 1:01 am Another question about the memory IC....
W25Q40CLSNIG 1 Winbond W25Q40CLSNIG NOR Flash Serial (SPI, Dual SPI, Quad SPI) 2.5V/3V/3.3V 4M-bit 512K x 8 8ns 8-Pin SOIC Tube W25Q40CLSNIG - original part was W25Q80DVSN
What's the difference between W25Q40CLSNIG and W25Q80DVSN?
Does it matter which one is installed?
Both should work. The Q40 part is 4MB whereas the Q80 part is 8MB. Both are adequate for 100 patches. AFAIK the CL series parts are technically 2.5v nominal whereas the DV series is 3v nominal, but both go up to 3.6/3.7v.

The W25Q80DV series is now replaced by the W25Q81DV series as of summer 2021. You should be able to use the W25Q81DVSNIG no problem but I have not tested it myself. The 80DV is still stocked in large numbers:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... IG/4878496

Here is the Q80DV series part obsolesence notice:
https://media.digikey.com/pdf/PCNs/Winb ... 5Q80DV.pdf

Just keep in mind that the last 4 letters of the part should be "SNIG" not "SSIG" as you want the SOIC-8 "narrow" footprint.
SupremeBashar
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by SupremeBashar »

Hi all,

Just finished the build, it was a nice experience of 'male knitting' ;-).

However, after turning it on, it only partially works.
The display does its boot sequence and the step 1 led starts blinking. Any buttonpressing doesn't seem to work, bur turning the encoder changes the number on the display. Any ideas on what might be wrong? Chips are in the correct position, just double checked.

Cheers,

Max
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by SupremeBashar »

SupremeBashar wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:31 am Hi all,

Just finished the build, it was a nice experience of 'male knitting' ;-).

However, after turning it on, it only partially works.
The display does its boot sequence and the step 1 led starts blinking. Any buttonpressing doesn't seem to work, bur turning the encoder changes the number on the display. Any ideas on what might be wrong? Chips are in the correct position, just double checked.

Cheers,

Max
So, problem probably solved. I put in a MCP23017 instead of a MCP23S17. The 0 version is an I2C bus, the I a SPI. I'll let you guys know if it works when I've got the other chip in.

Cheerio!
guya
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by guya »

Hi,

Despite the warning written in the instructions, I managed to swap the MCP4822 DAC and the TL072 :doh: . When starting the super sixteen I saw some smoke so clearly something went pop. After swapping the two ICs all segments light up and nothing responds. Should I just purchase replacement ICs or do you think I might have done a lot more damage?

Thanks,
Guy
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extralifedisco
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by extralifedisco »

guya wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:22 pm Hi,

Despite the warning written in the instructions, I managed to swap the MCP4822 DAC and the TL072 :doh: . When starting the super sixteen I saw some smoke so clearly something went pop. After swapping the two ICs all segments light up and nothing responds. Should I just purchase replacement ICs or do you think I might have done a lot more damage?

Thanks,
Guy
Interesting, I haven't seen that before. Can you identify which parts started smoking?

I would begin be removing the TL072 and MCP4822 as they are likely damaged ( the tl072 uses a bipolar +/-12v supply which would damage the 4822. If it failed short then it's possible it could have passed 12v through to other components.

If the display issue persists after removing the chips then I would suspect the CPU has been damaged. You can program another yourself or purchase a pre programmed replacement from my web shop:
https://store.extralifeinstruments.com/ ... 4557015191

Most of the other parts are 12V tolerant except the the MCP23S17. Inspect resistors for discoloration as they would be most likely to have runway thermal failure in case of a power line short.
guya
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by guya »

I did not see where the smoke came from so not sure what got fried. When I remove the two chips I still see all segments lit up. After turning the data encoder the screen starts flashing slowly. But no leds light up when I press the buttons. Should the device still boot with the MCP4822 and TL072 removed?
Will try to replace the ICs and CPU. What do I need to program the CPU? Would this do it? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hobby-Componen ... 06XYV162N/


extralifedisco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:04 pm
guya wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:22 pm Hi,

Despite the warning written in the instructions, I managed to swap the MCP4822 DAC and the TL072 :doh: . When starting the super sixteen I saw some smoke so clearly something went pop. After swapping the two ICs all segments light up and nothing responds. Should I just purchase replacement ICs or do you think I might have done a lot more damage?

Thanks,
Guy
Interesting, I haven't seen that before. Can you identify which parts started smoking?

I would begin be removing the TL072 and MCP4822 as they are likely damaged ( the tl072 uses a bipolar +/-12v supply which would damage the 4822. If it failed short then it's possible it could have passed 12v through to other components.

If the display issue persists after removing the chips then I would suspect the CPU has been damaged. You can program another yourself or purchase a pre programmed replacement from my web shop:
https://store.extralifeinstruments.com/ ... 4557015191

Most of the other parts are 12V tolerant except the the MCP23S17. Inspect resistors for discoloration as they would be most likely to have runway thermal failure in case of a power line short.
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extralifedisco
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by extralifedisco »

guya wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:53 pm I did not see where the smoke came from so not sure what got fried. When I remove the two chips I still see all segments lit up. After turning the data encoder the screen starts flashing slowly. But no leds light up when I press the buttons. Should the device still boot with the MCP4822 and TL072 removed?
Will try to replace the ICs and CPU. What do I need to program the CPU? Would this do it? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hobby-Componen ... 06XYV162N/
Yes, the module should still boot without the DAC and op-amp installed. If it still has issues that's a sign other ICs are damaged.

Interesting, that sounds like the ATMEGA CPU is still working, e.g. it goes into sequence load mode and flashes the display when you turn the encoder. However if the display and LEDs don't change, then the 74HC595 shift registers are possibly damaged. This would be pretty surprising as they're on the other board. However it could still be that the ATMEGA CPU chip does have damaged pins on the serial lines and just isn't properly communicating to the other PCB, but the discrete outputs used to control the display driver transistors are still working. Hard to say without being able to probe it. I would probably order a complete set of ICs for the board - sounds like after replacing one you're likely to find another that's damaged. They should all be pretty easy to track down except the Atmega chip which is still suffering chip shortage scarcity.

That USB programmer should probably work fine if you are on Windows. OS X tends to be more picky about which USB driver chips it recognizes. I recommend the Pololu USB AVR v2.1 if you can find it for sale nearby.
guya
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by guya »

Quick update. I took your comment on board regarding the ATMEGA CPU still working, So did some careful checking and found a dry joint on one pin of the 16 pin header. After I fixed that, everything came to life. Can turn leds on and off. Run the sequence, etc... Just a small issue with the third character on the display flickering. Clearly another one of my less than perfect soldering joints. So it's looking promising. And swapping the two ICs did not totally destroy the board. I have ordered replacements for the opamp and DAC. I assume that at least one of these is gone. Thanks for your patience and help with sorting this out. Your advice has been very helpful. It's also great that this is an open source project which allowed me to have a look at the schematic.

Hope to spend some more time on it tonight and with a bit of luck I should be up and running by the weekend. Fingers crossed.
extralifedisco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:21 pm Yes, the module should still boot without the DAC and op-amp installed. If it still has issues that's a sign other ICs are damaged.

Interesting, that sounds like the ATMEGA CPU is still working, e.g. it goes into sequence load mode and flashes the display when you turn the encoder. However if the display and LEDs don't change, then the 74HC595 shift registers are possibly damaged. This would be pretty surprising as they're on the other board. However it could still be that the ATMEGA CPU chip does have damaged pins on the serial lines and just isn't properly communicating to the other PCB, but the discrete outputs used to control the display driver transistors are still working. Hard to say without being able to probe it. I would probably order a complete set of ICs for the board - sounds like after replacing one you're likely to find another that's damaged. They should all be pretty easy to track down except the Atmega chip which is still suffering chip shortage scarcity.

That USB programmer should probably work fine if you are on Windows. OS X tends to be more picky about which USB driver chips it recognizes. I recommend the Pololu USB AVR v2.1 if you can find it for sale nearby.
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extralifedisco
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by extralifedisco »

guya wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:42 am Quick update. I took your comment on board regarding the ATMEGA CPU still working, So did some careful checking and found a dry joint on one pin of the 16 pin header. After I fixed that, everything came to life. Can turn leds on and off. Run the sequence, etc... Just a small issue with the third character on the display flickering. Clearly another one of my less than perfect soldering joints. So it's looking promising. And swapping the two ICs did not totally destroy the board. I have ordered replacements for the opamp and DAC. I assume that at least one of these is gone. Thanks for your patience and help with sorting this out. Your advice has been very helpful. It's also great that this is an open source project which allowed me to have a look at the schematic.

Hope to spend some more time on it tonight and with a bit of luck I should be up and running by the weekend. Fingers crossed.
Great detective work! Hope the chips are working ok. If you have one digit glitching it's probably a solder issue on the topmost header connector or the 3 transistors near the display (or the display module itself).

If you'd like to post some board photos I would be happy to take a look and see if I can spot any other areas to investigate.
SupremeBashar
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by SupremeBashar »

SupremeBashar wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:40 pm
SupremeBashar wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:31 am Hi all,

Just finished the build, it was a nice experience of 'male knitting' ;-).

However, after turning it on, it only partially works.
The display does its boot sequence and the step 1 led starts blinking. Any buttonpressing doesn't seem to work, bur turning the encoder changes the number on the display. Any ideas on what might be wrong? Chips are in the correct position, just double checked.

Cheers,

Max
So, problem probably solved. I put in a MCP23017 instead of a MCP23S17. The 0 version is an I2C bus, the I a SPI. I'll let you guys know if it works when I've got the other chip in.

Cheerio!
Yep, that was the issue. All solved with the correct expander.
guya
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by guya »

extralifedisco wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:47 pm
Great detective work! Hope the chips are working ok. If you have one digit glitching it's probably a solder issue on the topmost header connector or the 3 transistors near the display (or the display module itself).

If you'd like to post some board photos I would be happy to take a look and see if I can spot any other areas to investigate.
After I put the new OpAmp and DAC, everything is working. Well almost ;-). The data encoder increment values counter clockwise and decrement values when turning clockwise. That seems to be the wrong direction. Is that right? What could be causing that? And the pitch potentiometer does not track from -12 to 12. Quite a few values are skipped. Running through the values now I get -12/-10/-8/-7/-5/-3/-1/0/2/4/5/7/9/11/12. I assuming this could be more of my less than perfect soldering. Any idea what I should be checking?

As always, thanks in advance for all your help.
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extralifedisco
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by extralifedisco »

guya wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:46 am After I put the new OpAmp and DAC, everything is working. Well almost ;-). The data encoder increment values counter clockwise and decrement values when turning clockwise. That seems to be the wrong direction. Is that right? What could be causing that? And the pitch potentiometer does not track from -12 to 12. Quite a few values are skipped. Running through the values now I get -12/-10/-8/-7/-5/-3/-1/0/2/4/5/7/9/11/12. I assuming this could be more of my less than perfect soldering. Any idea what I should be checking?

As always, thanks in advance for all your help.
Sounds like you have a non-standard encoder (or at least non-specified). You can fix this in software by inverting the encoder setting. Press shift+15 to enter CALIBRATE mode, then press button 13 to toggle between regular ("REG") and inverted ("INV") encoder. Press save to exit calibration mode. The encoder should work properly then. This is explained on page 17 of the newly updated manual:
http://extralifeinstruments.com/docs/su ... al_1.2.pdf

The pitch values reflect the scale you have selected. In major scale mode it will skip the non-diatonic tones. Press shift+SCALE and choose the chromatic scale if you want all 12 tones. If you're familiar with music theory, you may prefer note name mode (C3, D4, G5 etc) which can make this a little clearer. Enter calibrate mode and press buttons 15/16 to choose note name or numeric display mode, respectively.
guya
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Re: Super Sixteen build support thread

Post by guya »

extralifedisco wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:40 pm
Sounds like you have a non-standard encoder (or at least non-specified). You can fix this in software by inverting the encoder setting. Press shift+15 to enter CALIBRATE mode, then press button 13 to toggle between regular ("REG") and inverted ("INV") encoder. Press save to exit calibration mode. The encoder should work properly then. This is explained on page 17 of the newly updated manual:
http://extralifeinstruments.com/docs/su ... al_1.2.pdf

The pitch values reflect the scale you have selected. In major scale mode it will skip the non-diatonic tones. Press shift+SCALE and choose the chromatic scale if you want all 12 tones. If you're familiar with music theory, you may prefer note name mode (C3, D4, G5 etc) which can make this a little clearer. Enter calibrate mode and press buttons 15/16 to choose note name or numeric display mode, respectively.
Everything is 100% working now. Inverted the encoder and your explanation for the scale affecting the notes makes sense and is exactly what was happening. Now I have a fully functioning super sixteen. Another happy customer!! ;) This is a brilliant module which has added so much to my eurorack. Thanks.
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