Cocoquantus questions

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Gringo Starr
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Cocoquantus questions

Post by Gringo Starr »

Hello everyone. I don't see a general COCO 2 thread unless my aging eyes missed it. I have a question and since I didn't want to derail other threads I started a new one.

On a few youtube demos I've watched I noticed a very high pitched metallic sound that showed up when the pitch on the delay was tuned down. But I didn't notice it on every demo I watched. Is this an intentional or unintentional thing that happens?

Also, as I scanned through this forum looking for the proper thread to ask this question I noticed that a lot of threads about the Cocoquantus are people having technical problems with their units. This is not a cheap device. Are there build quality issues or longevity issues with the Cocoquantus?
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T. Jervell
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by T. Jervell »

Well the sampling/delay section on the coco is quite Lo-Fi, and gets even more so the further down you turn the pitch knob. All sorts of artefacts occur. If you notice metallic ones in some, and not all vids, my guess is that it might have to do with a:the source material or B:that on the metallic videos FM modulation is also applied via the speed cv in?
I own a coco and haven’t gotten any metallic timbres unless I’ve made an effort to get it.

The technical issues. Well there are quite a few people who got units with (usually) one noisier sample/delay section. I’ve owned two, and neither had/have the problem. Also I guess there are others that had the Notion that it’s sound is clearer, and when they get it realize that it is quite a noisy bugger. Don’t get me wrong. At full speed/highest sample rate it’s sound quality (in my ears) are fine. Also as you pitch down a bit, but then it gets quite crunchy.
Then there is the «known» issue that some of these instruments sometime need a little «touch up» of solder on the banana path points. Again, I’ve not been there yet (and I’ve had CL instruments for about 7-8 years now), but then again I’ve never owned a Plumbutter, which seems to be the instruments where this occurs most frequently (I guess it has to do with wood being a «living» material and movement in the wood occur at changing temperatures/humidity etc.
So yeah, I guess the biggest gripe/problems that seem most reoccuring, has to be noisy buffer(s), and expections of higher fidelity not being met.
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by batchas »

On mine, bought new by Patch Point, the left channel is way more noisy thean the right channel and in certain occasions it makes it difficult/frustrating to use, cause as soon as something is recorded into the buffer on the left channel, the noise is very loud or even taking over the recorded audio signal on the left channel.
Can be quite cool depending what you you want, but not so cool if you want to start a set with a decent loop (and then go into noise or whatever after). I use now the right channel to start a set.
Right channel is ok. I mean you'll still hear some noise or get lo-fi quality, but this is the nature/character of the machine, this is not the issue to me.

I admit my mistake is that I didn't returned from day one the machine to Patch Point to have it simply replaced. I waited too long.

The main IC responsible for the left channel is on mine soldered by hand, while everything else on the board is machine assembled. This IMHO is the source of the issue cause it was obv. replaced. I might be wrong, but this is my opinion, because it seems to me logical.
Unfortunately I never got any answer from Peter or Patch Point of why this IC was hand soldered (replaced) and why such a difference between channels, while the circuit is identical on both channels. I was asking if I could replace any components, this IC maybe, or check any part of the circuit, cause I have the capacity to do so.
Peter simply ignored my messages (I tried via different ways: FB, insta, website... no answer) and I was quite frustrated.

I also asked here in this part of the forum is someone had a photo of the inside of his "good working" cocoquantus 2 to be able to compare the left part, see how the IC on the left channel looks like, but never got any answer either.

Normally I try not to speak about my bad experiences on a forum, cause it can quickly deviate. If I ever posted on this forum about the issue I had, it was to find a solution and avoid any future buyer to have the same experience.
I never ranted. I'm ready to help in any occasion and I consider myself as pretty polite, in despite of the differences of languages (french-english) which do not allow me to always nuance/explain/argue like I'd like to. I didn't expect not to get any answer from Peter. This is something I pers. will never understand.

So I gave up.

Again, I should have send back the unit from day one to avoid all this frustration and time spent on trying to find a solution for something I consider not to be normal. My bad.
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by T. Jervell »

batchas wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:21 am On mine, bought new by Patch Point, the left channel is way more noisy thean the right channel and in certain occasions it makes it difficult/frustrating to use, cause as soon as something is recorded into the buffer on the left channel, the noise is very loud or even taking over the recorded audio signal on the left channel.
Can be quite cool depending what you you want, but not so cool if you want to start a set with a decent loop (and then go into noise or whatever after). I use now the right channel to start a set.
Right channel is ok. I mean you'll still hear some noise or get lo-fi quality, but this is the nature/character of the machine, this is not the issue to me.

I admit my mistake is that I didn't returned from day one the machine to Patch Point to have it simply replaced. I waited too long.

The main IC responsible for the left channel is on mine soldered by hand, while everything else on the board is machine assembled. This IMHO is the source of the issue cause it was obv. replaced. I might be wrong, but this is my opinion, because it seems to me logical.
Unfortunately I never got any answer from Peter or Patch Point of why this IC was hand soldered (replaced) and why such a difference between channels, while the circuit is identical on both channels. I was asking if I could replace any components, this IC maybe, or check any part of the circuit, cause I have the capacity to do so.
Peter simply ignored my messages (I tried via different ways: FB, insta, website... no answer) and I was quite frustrated.

I also asked here in this part of the forum is someone had a photo of the inside of his "good working" cocoquantus 2 to be able to compare the left part, see how the IC on the left channel looks like, but never got any answer either.

Normally I try not to speak about my bad experiences on a forum, cause it can quickly deviate. If I ever posted on this forum about the issue I had, it was to find a solution and avoid any future buyer to have the same experience.
I never ranted. I'm ready to help in any occasion and I consider myself as pretty polite, in despite of the differences of languages (french-english) which do not allow me to always nuance/explain/argue like I'd like to. I didn't expect not to get any answer from Peter. This is something I pers. will never understand.

So I gave up.

Again, I should have send back the unit from day one to avoid all this frustration and time spent on trying to find a solution for something I consider not to be normal. My bad.
This is saddens me to hear Batchas. I’ve read your posts about your troubles with your coco, and I was hoping that you’d resolved this/got PP to fix it😔
Really sucks that there hadn’t been any replies to your enquiries.
Crossing my fingers this will be resolved in some way or another.
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by batchas »

T. Jervell wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:39 am This is saddens me to hear Batchas. I’ve read your posts about your troubles with your coco, and I was hoping that you’d resolved this/got PP to fix it😔
Really sucks that there hadn’t been any replies to your enquiries.
Crossing my fingers this will be resolved in some way or another.
I can live with it now. I don't use the ciat gear much + a trick shared in other threads allows me to clear the buffer more efficiently when I want to record something new. Does not always work, but it's a good workaround. For me it's like "injecting some silence", "recording sience" so to say, by increasing a bit the feedback/loop volume while sampling. Might not be what is exactly happening or the right teminology, but I don't really care as long as it works for me.
Then, as mentionned, the noise increases more on the left channel compared to the right after, while feeling up the left buffer, so I don't use the left channel if I record accoustic sound for instance or any external source. But at least I can more or less start with an empty buffer using this trick.
I still like the Cocoquantus in despite of that. This is THE instrument I'd bring with me for any live performance if I was able to make concerts.
Still a very cool machine to make some noise and express feelings.
One year ago, when I got a phone call announcing me that my brother died during the night, I took the Cocoquantus to the river and did let go.
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by od120 »

I used to have a cocquantus2 and what I loved most was the internal noise that would just appear when recording nothing.
I always thought it sounded quite natural and soothing.

Slowing the coco’s Would yeild some metallic sounds similar to (or due to) downsampling.

I loved the sounds and artifacts of the cocoquantus2. Its the main reason I miss it.
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by T. Jervell »

batchas wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:22 am
T. Jervell wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:39 am This is saddens me to hear Batchas. I’ve read your posts about your troubles with your coco, and I was hoping that you’d resolved this/got PP to fix it😔
Really sucks that there hadn’t been any replies to your enquiries.
Crossing my fingers this will be resolved in some way or another.
I can live with it now. I don't use the ciat gear much + a trick shared in other threads allows me to clear the buffer more efficiently when I want to record something new. Does not always work, but it's a good workaround. For me it's like "injecting some silence", "recording sience" so to say, by increasing a bit the feedback/loop volume while sampling. Might not be what is exactly happening or the right teminology, but I don't really care as long as it works for me.
Then, as mentionned, the noise increases more on the left channel compared to the right after, while feeling up the left buffer, so I don't use the left channel if I record accoustic sound for instance or any external source. But at least I can more or less start with an empty buffer using this trick.
I still like the Cocoquantus in despite of that. This is THE instrument I'd bring with me for any live performance if I was able to make concerts.
Still a very cool machine to make some noise and express feelings.
One year ago, when I got a phone call announcing me that my brother died during the night, I took the Cocoquantus to the river and did let go.
I’m sorry for your loss, Robert😔
But what a Nice homage you made though. From throat singing to techno and noise👌🏻
Such a great video to demonstrate the Coco and potential uses!!
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by Sidiblue »

batchas wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:22 am
T. Jervell wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:39 am This is saddens me to hear Batchas. I’ve read your posts about your troubles with your coco, and I was hoping that you’d resolved this/got PP to fix it😔
Really sucks that there hadn’t been any replies to your enquiries.
Crossing my fingers this will be resolved in some way or another.
I can live with it now. I don't use the ciat gear much + a trick shared in other threads allows me to clear the buffer more efficiently when I want to record something new. Does not always work, but it's a good workaround. For me it's like "injecting some silence", "recording sience" so to say, by increasing a bit the feedback/loop volume while sampling. Might not be what is exactly happening or the right teminology, but I don't really care as long as it works for me.
Then, as mentionned, the noise increases more on the left channel compared to the right after, while feeling up the left buffer, so I don't use the left channel if I record accoustic sound for instance or any external source. But at least I can more or less start with an empty buffer using this trick.
I still like the Cocoquantus in despite of that. This is THE instrument I'd bring with me for any live performance if I was able to make concerts.
Still a very cool machine to make some noise and express feelings.
One year ago, when I got a phone call announcing me that my brother died during the night, I took the Cocoquantus to the river and did let go.
Toutes mes condoléances.

I have a cocoquantus (+ a plumbutter and a Fyral). I see from time to time people complaining about anomalies on their equipment. I often feel very lucky that everything works perfectly. When I reset the buffers on my coco, it is incredibly quiet. Some people said that the quality has increased now that Patch Point is doing some of the production. I think it is important that people know the risks before they buy. On the other hand and even though I started the modular at the same time as the pandemic, I am still delighted with the CL instruments. I almost don't touch my eurorack anymore because of that and I wouldn't be surprised if I drop it for a CL-centric setup. The coco in particular is fascinating and may be one of my favorite instruments.
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Gringo Starr
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by Gringo Starr »

Thanks for the replies. Sorry to read about your experience Batchas. That’s unfortunate that nobody got back to you about that. That’s not a management style I want to invest in.

The fact that one can differ so much from another is also not good. I don’t want to spend that much money on something and then have to sit there hoping that I get a good one. For now I will wait and see how the new productions go.
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Gorsky
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by Gorsky »

Hi Guys,

a month ago I bought Coco 2 directly from Patch Point - I immediately noticed that my left channel is much more noisier then right one and the buffer cleaning routine did not seem to work properly... I wrote straight to Patch Point regarding my issues and they assured me that everything in my unit was working properly. I trusted them and thought maybe it was a matter of learning the instrument (how to set input gain to avoid all the noise, how to set the speed and feedback knobs to properly clean the buffers etc.) but after many hours with the Coco nothing has changed - the left channel is always more noisy and cleaning the buffer is always a problem. As if that was not enough, yesterday my stereo output socket started to break down...

I have already written to Patch Point and I am very curious what they will write back to me - I would love to replace my unit with a new one, but something tells me it will be impossible, we'll see...

[check the video aroun 01:14]:
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by Muff McMuff »

I dont know how long you have had your Coco's but in the EU there is a statutory 2 year warranty. From the internet..."EU law also stipulates that you must give the consumer a minimum 2-year guarantee (legal guarantee) as a protection against faulty goods, or goods that don't look or work as advertised. "

Batches have you tried the Lines forum. You might get you photo of the insides there? https://llllllll.co/t/mobenthey-ciat-lo ... hread/3322
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by OscillatorScream »

Have you reached out to CrucFX?
Josh Rodriquez

He’s the man you wanna chat with.
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by Gorsky »

I own it for one month now. Yeah I know that Josh Rodriquez is the man - but I am from Poland & as my unit is brand new, bought from Patch Point I prefer resolve all my issues with them. Especially as you said: I have a 2-year warranty ;)


Muff McMuff wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:54 am I dont know how long you have had your Coco's but in the EU there is a statutory 2 year warranty. From the internet..."EU law also stipulates that you must give the consumer a minimum 2-year guarantee (legal guarantee) as a protection against faulty goods, or goods that don't look or work as advertised. "

Batches have you tried the Lines forum. You might get you photo of the insides there? https://llllllll.co/t/mobenthey-ciat-lo ... hread/3322
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by d42kn355 »

I genuinely wonder how many coco's are out there.
It has to be in the hundreds after all these years - It seems like there are about 10 that I know of with Left Buffer issues..
It's gotta be the CY62128 SRAM..
I am going to be ordering some at some point.. if anyone wants to temporarily donate their coco for me to figure out this buffer issue (my coco doesnt have the noise issue, so I dont really wanna pull my IC's lolol) - I would happily pull the SRAM and try to replace it and see.
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by batchas »

Gorsky wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:20 am I immediately noticed that my left channel is much more noisier then right one and the buffer cleaning routine did not seem to work properly... I wrote straight to Patch Point regarding my issues and they assured me that everything in my unit was working properly.
I also got this kind of answer the first time too which bothered me. I means in other words "this thing is complicated, you should first learn how to use it". I didn't trust the answer, not because I consider myself as an experienced user, but because when you have 2 channels, both with the same circuit/same components and one acts obviously badly, than there's an issue. Either a component or a trace on the PCB. Period.

Now I have to say it again, because as we are on a forum I don't want my post to be interpreted as a rant. I also don't want to speak negatively about a person or a company because there are always 2 parts in a story or a conflict.
I'm just sharing an experience and an advice that I hope to be constructive.
My mistake was to not send the unit back directly. Ask for a fully working unit or for my money back. I didn't do that, so Patch Point is on this point not to blame. This is IMO an important aspect.
Of course I don't know if I wether had got a replacement or my money back or not, but I'll never know because I didn't do the right thing.

I didn't want to pay again for shipping back and most of all I wanted to avoid complications and conflict at this period of time. I had much difficulty to deal with answers like "There's nothing wrong with it", knowing it was not true. I had enough to deal with in my life. So I thought I could live with the issue, leave it aside and go back to it later on, setting other more vital priorities.
There's anyway for me an inherent difficulty or a great strain to deal with something via email, on top of that in a foreign language. I prefer direct human contact. Same with sharing an experience, even more when it's a uncomfortable one.

After a while, when I started to use the Cocoquantus more often, I could not stand this buffer/noise issue anymore. This is why I came back to the issue, contacted PP again. I did'nt appreciate the answers from PP I got like "it's normal", "we don't see what your problem is" etc, in despite of videos I sent. I asked for other customers experiences on the forum to see if I was the only one experiencing an issue with the buffer/noise on left channel.
PP offered me to send it back after this warranty period. They didn't ignore my messages, they would look at it for money + all shipping costs, even if the issue (and the videos showing it) existed since day one.
What was ignored was what I mentionned earlier. Why a hand soldered main chip on left channel, where to look cause I could do it by myself, even replace it if they sent me one etc etc.

We read in this thread messages from customers that never had an issue, so I can't imagine PP not knowing which batch is ok and which is not, cause the difference with buffer/noise is way too obvious. This is my opinion.
I'm sharing my experience here to say as conclusion:
Be aware that there can be differences between channels, in despite of using the same circuit, this is the good thing about this machine, not being always predictable, this is what we like, but when the difference is disturbing and obvious and you're not happy with yours and this difference between the 2 channels is bothering you because the noise ratio is too high, emptying the buffer is a pain compared to the other channel, then send it back right away to avoid negativity, bad feelings, struggle. Ask for a working unit or for money back.
The is the best way IMHO to have a positive experience. Both for PP and for the customer.
Muff McMuff wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:54 am I dont know how long you have had your Coco's but in the EU there is a statutory 2 year warranty. From the internet..."EU law also stipulates that you must give the consumer a minimum 2-year guarantee (legal guarantee) as a protection against faulty goods, or goods that don't look or work as advertised. "
Exactly. It's important. This is why I'm sharing my experience. Anyone who has an issue, don't wait too long. Don't do what I did.
Muff McMuff wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:54 am Batches have you tried the Lines forum. You might get you photo of the insides there? https://llllllll.co/t/mobenthey-ciat-lo ... hread/3322
Thank a lot I'll check it!
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by Gorsky »

UE law allows the customer to return the goods without giving any reason up to 14 days - in my case it's been over a month... :(
But I like Coco so much that I don't want to get rid of it - I want to own one, but I want to own one that's working how it should.
It's been 2 days since I wrote to PP, and they haven't responded yet.
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by Prunesquallor »

batchas wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:07 am...but when the difference is disturbing and obvious and you're not happy with yours and this difference between the 2 channels is bothering you because the noise ratio is too high, emptying the buffer is a pain compared to the other channel, then send it back right away to avoid negativity, bad feelings, struggle. Ask for a working unit or for money back.
This thread is disturbing. For a big-ticket item like this you'd think there'd be better QC. I had a Coco which had no problems like this. I was thinking of reacquiring a new one from PP, ironically to avoid problems. I'd now definitely ask them to ship a unit without these issues. Maybe if we all did it...?
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by timeforest »

maybe if we all film flatlay instagram reels where we get so frustrated with the buffer inconsistencies that we demolish all the ceramics, cacti, crystals, tarot cards, and maneki-nekos on the table PP will hear us
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by Gorsky »

hahaha <3 10/10
timeforest wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:48 pm maybe if we all film flatlay instagram reels where we get so frustrated with the buffer inconsistencies that we demolish all the ceramics, cacti, crystals, tarot cards, and maneki-nekos on the table PP will hear us
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by Prunesquallor »

Gorsky wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:56 am hahaha <3 10/10
timeforest wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:48 pm maybe if we all film flatlay instagram reels where we get so frustrated with the buffer inconsistencies that we demolish all the ceramics, cacti, crystals, tarot cards, and maneki-nekos on the table PP will hear us
Well, I'm glad some people have enough cash to be flippant about it. :fu:
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by 909one »

I've owned two Coco's and both were about the same in noise, which is to say the my were noisey when not paying attention to gain structure. I find that cranking the input to the point of almost distortion is the way to go with getting the least amount of buffer noise. I also always run a low pass filter after my Coco.
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by batchas »

909one wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:03 pm I've owned two Coco's and both were about the same in noise, which is to say the my were noisey when not paying attention to gain structure. I find that cranking the input to the point of almost distortion is the way to go with getting the least amount of buffer noise. I also always run a low pass filter after my Coco.
The Coco is noisy because it is his nature, like a BBD would be or a 8 bit chip etc, and it makes its charm.
All agree to say it's fine with that IMHO, at least people who know what they are buying. And as you say, you still can put a low pass after it if you prefer to decrease its noisy character. This is what I do for instance on my Synton Fenix BBD delay or my Buchla 288v.

But the discussion was about the difference between left and right channels, where the noise tends to cover the audio signal on one channel and the buffer could not be emptied like the buffer on the other channel could be. While the circuit is identical for both channels, while the noisy channel has a component which has been obviously replaced on the board because soldered by hand, while all others are machine assembled. What I call an issue, because I am pragmatic.
The maker/seller of this module said this is not an issue, implied I didn't know how to use it in despite of 42 years using electronic devices, incl. modulars and making modules by myself since 10 years, when it's not a question of how to use it, but a question of admitting that there's a disturbing difference, naming an issue and simply being honnest.
When I insisted and the answer from the maker/seller was that I had to pay if I wanted him to look at it and repair if necessary, while the issue has been present since I bought it new, I disagreed, and for all these reasons I decided to comment on the forum about my Coco, not because the Coco is noisy by nature.
I commented so people do not make the same mistake as I did, if their Coco has the identical issue.
My recommendation being not to hesitate to send it back while it is under warranty and not wait too long like I stupidely did, suddenly deciding after a live show that I could not live anymore with this issue. I thought I could repair it by myself but never got any answer to my questions from Peter Blasser or the maker/seller of my unit.
Again a long message, sorry for that, but it's because I'm trying to be as clear as possible in a foreign language on a public forum and also because with this message, for my part, I'm closing the subject.
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by Gorsky »

It's been almost 2 months since I send my Coco back to Patch Point, result?
They claim that my Coco is fine... they write me back once every 3 of my e-mails...
I regret that I like Coco's sound...
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by batchas »

Gorsky wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:25 am It's been almost 2 months since I send my Coco back to Patch Point, result?
They claim that my Coco is fine... they write me back once every 3 of my e-mails...
I regret that I like Coco's sound...
Seems like my experience. They should prove it, with your unit of course, not another one they have in stock. I'd ask them to show on video with a good sound that left and right channel are really okay. I can't see any other solution as a good start. You'll see then where it goes.
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Re: Cocoquantus questions

Post by Jonny »

I’ve read various stories of people sending their coco back to Peter when he was in the US or Patchpoint and every time, they say it’s normal. Isn’t that a possibility that the left side is more noisy since it’s next to the preamp section?
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