OCD question about gaps between modules.

Cwejman, Doepfer, Erica, MakeNoise, Mutable instruments, TipTop Audio, Analogue Solutions, and much more! The world’s most popular format.
Be sure to look into MANUFACTURER SUB-FORA as well..

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

Headlands
Common Wiggler
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:38 pm

OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Headlands »

I'm putting my rack together today and my OCD is on overdrive because of slight gaps between certain modules, no matter how I adjust them with the leeway in most modules' screw holes (some have no leeway -- should be some in every module design!). If this is simply something one must accept with modular then I'll be totally OK with it. Would just like to know if that's the way it is sometimes. ;)
Last edited by Headlands on Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kawouddd
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1671
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:09 am

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Kawouddd »

One of the reasons I hate mutable *shakes fist*
User avatar
SkyWriter
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:18 pm
Location: Absolute Elsewhere
Contact:

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by SkyWriter »

I use sliding nuts and a feeler gauge :0)
give a hoot, don't fucking pollute.
User avatar
Agawell
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1955
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 3:22 am

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Agawell »

the tiny gaps are good as they will allow a little bit of air flow...
Modular Audio and Video Synthesis on Instagram

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine!!!

an oscillator is an oscillator - utilities are possibilities

choose the case to fit the modules - not the modules to fit the case!!!
Headlands
Common Wiggler
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:38 pm

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Headlands »

OK, good -- as long as I know it's something that's not "wrong" then I'm fine. :-) Thank you.

And every single module maker and faceplate-maker should always have some leeway with their screw holes; there's not a single reason not to! So far with what I have, Joranalogue, Doepfer and Make Noise are guilty.
User avatar
Misk
Common Wiggler
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:57 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Misk »

gaps between modules, huh? Ever noticed how faceplate thickness varies between manufacturers? welcome to my personal hell :P
User avatar
Wavtekt
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 779
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:33 am
Location: Canada West Coast
Contact:

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Wavtekt »

who cares ...

gaps / different panel thickness / different shades of silver & black panels / different screw hole sizes ... thats the nature of eurorack.

Get a single manufacturer system or go Buchla / 4u / 5u if thats matter for you.
User avatar
dooj88
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2596
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:31 pm
Location: VA
Contact:

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by dooj88 »

moonguy.jpg
User avatar
starthief
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6037
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:39 am
Location: St Louis, MO
Contact:

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by starthief »

Even single-manufacturer systems aren't necessarily immune to gaps, due to poor quality control on their panel cutting, inconsistent placement of screw holes, etc.

I agree though that it'd be nice if screw holes always were at least a little bit oblong. Somebody mentioned Mutable, but at least those seem to be 100% dead-on. The Harvestman mk2 are the ones I've had the most trouble with alignment, and Doepfer the worst for panel cutting generally.
Headlands
Common Wiggler
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:38 pm

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Headlands »

Wavtekt wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:26 pm who cares ...

gaps / different panel thickness / different shades of silver & black panels / different screw hole sizes ... thats the nature of eurorack.

Get a single manufacturer system or go Buchla / 4u / 5u if thats matter for you.
It's got nothing to do with what's actually important or what actually matters -- it's an OCD thing. Luckily I only have OCD for a few things in life, but gear/things I buy is one of them. I'm fine now that I know it's just the way it is with Eurorack. :-)
Last edited by Headlands on Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Spacelordmother
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:40 am
Location: Rochester, NY
Contact:

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Spacelordmother »

SkyWriter wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:44 pm I use sliding nuts and a feeler gauge :0)
Yup! This is the way. :tu:
User avatar
kriskeyman
Common Wiggler
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:29 am
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA, Earth
Contact:

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by kriskeyman »

Have been using sliding nuts with the same bent paperclip for years to move the nuts in the rack. No module is missing a screw in one of the corners and the gap between modules is pretty close
User avatar
Wavtekt
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 779
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:33 am
Location: Canada West Coast
Contact:

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Wavtekt »

Headlands wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:57 pm
Wavtekt wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:26 pm who cares ...

gaps / different panel thickness / different shades of silver & black panels / different screw hole sizes ... thats the nature of eurorack.

Get a single manufacturer system or go Buchla / 4u / 5u if thats matter for you.
It's got nothing to do with what's actually important or what actually matters -- it's an OCD thing. Luckily I only have OCD for a few things in life, but gear/things I buy is one of them. I'm fine now that I know it's just the way it is with Eurorack. :-)
I guess seeing channel 1 of Maths shoots out 9.81v envelope and channel 4 shoots out 9.90v envelope will get you really mad?

This is the nature of the analog world we live in and why there is tolerance to the manufacturing process.

resistors have 1-2% tolerance, VCO is never exactly 10vpp, usually +/- 0.5v , drill bits wears off from time to time so size changes, wood beams doesn't size all the same with all sorts of defects like cupping, your left face is asymmetrical to your right face etc.

May be you sure either get help or go to digital world where everything is precise.
Headlands
Common Wiggler
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:38 pm

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Headlands »

Wavtekt wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:13 pm
Headlands wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:57 pm
Wavtekt wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:26 pm who cares ...

gaps / different panel thickness / different shades of silver & black panels / different screw hole sizes ... thats the nature of eurorack.

Get a single manufacturer system or go Buchla / 4u / 5u if thats matter for you.
It's got nothing to do with what's actually important or what actually matters -- it's an OCD thing. Luckily I only have OCD for a few things in life, but gear/things I buy is one of them. I'm fine now that I know it's just the way it is with Eurorack. :-)
I guess seeing channel 1 of Maths shoots out 9.81v envelope and channel 4 shoots out 9.90v envelope will get you really mad?

This is the nature of the analog world we live in and why there is tolerance to the manufacturing process.

resistors have 1-2% tolerance, VCO is never exactly 10vpp, usually +/- 0.5v , drill bits wears off from time to time so size changes, wood beams doesn't size all the same with all sorts of defects like cupping, your left face is asymmetrical to your right face etc.

May be you sure either get help or go to digital world where everything is precise.
I think we might have a communication misstep here. I was just asking a simple question about module spacing in order to hopefully squelch my OCD with this kind of thing, which it did.
Last edited by Headlands on Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
ATW
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1204
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:01 pm
Location: Northampton, MA
Contact:

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by ATW »

Wavtekt wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:13 pm
Headlands wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:57 pm
Wavtekt wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:26 pm who cares ...

gaps / different panel thickness / different shades of silver & black panels / different screw hole sizes ... thats the nature of eurorack.

Get a single manufacturer system or go Buchla / 4u / 5u if thats matter for you.
It's got nothing to do with what's actually important or what actually matters -- it's an OCD thing. Luckily I only have OCD for a few things in life, but gear/things I buy is one of them. I'm fine now that I know it's just the way it is with Eurorack. :-)
I guess seeing channel 1 of Maths shoots out 9.81v envelope and channel 4 shoots out 9.90v envelope will get you really mad?

This is the nature of the analog world we live in and why there is tolerance to the manufacturing process.

resistors have 1-2% tolerance, VCO is never exactly 10vpp, usually +/- 0.5v , drill bits wears off from time to time so size changes, wood beams doesn't size all the same with all sorts of defects like cupping, your left face is asymmetrical to your right face etc.

May be you sure either get help or go to digital world where everything is precise.
Wavetekt—please be careful with the dismissive attitude. “Who cares?” and “ May be you sure either get help or go to digital world where everything is precise” is not particularly constructive.

I assume the intent was to be helpful. Please give others the space to communicate freely—particularly in the realm of mental health.

Thanks.
ᴍᴏᴅᴜʟᴀʀ ɢʀɪᴅ ⟡ 9U 168 + Palette + Pod ⟡ ᴍᴜsɪᴄ ATW on SoundCloud
User avatar
KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 7609
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by KSS »

In actual fact -and a boon if you are *truly* ODC- there *should* always be some *varying* gaps between *all* modules. It actually should be a tossup whether two modules sides meet or not.

Here's why.

The spec for 3U Panels -that Doepfer *adopted* for Eurorack- includes a tolerance for every module's width. This ius because it's impossible to actually cut every single panel blank to exact size. So in all areas of mfg, things like this are given a tolerance.

Since rack widths AKA sub-racks- generally -again existing *well* before Eurorack and Doepfer's adoption of this part of that pre-existing standard- have fixed mounting hole positions, the worst situation is panels which are too wide. Therefore the tolerance is plus 0, minus some typical amount. On full racks this is plus zero, minus 0.030" or 0.8mm. You can read the exact numbers for typical Euro panels on Doepfer's website in the mechanical section.

So fear not !those of you with ODC.. Your OCD is actually satisfied by having variable gaps. Because that's the expected and planned result from beginning by the powers who first made the decision to package electronics in this way!

And as someone earlier pointed out it's actually a help to cooling what is too often otherwise a sealed box. Unused Jack holes used to help much in this regard, but the rise of PCB mounted jacks -without a thru hole under the jack- have mostly eliminated this formerly helpful aid to heat removal.
Treat utility modules as stars instead of backup singers.
Treat power supplies like Rockstars instead of roadies!
Chase magic sound, not magic parts.
Headlands
Common Wiggler
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:38 pm

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Headlands »

KSS wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:23 pm In actual fact -and a boon if you are *truly* ODC- there *should* always be some *varying* gaps between *all* modules. It actually should be a tossup whether two modules sides meet or not.

Here's why.

The spec for 3U Panels -that Doepfer *adopted* for Eurorack- includes a tolerance for every module's width. This ius because it's impossible to actually cut every single panel blank to exact size. So in all areas of mfg, things like this are given a tolerance.

Since rack widths AKA sub-racks- generally -again existing *well* before Eurorack and Doepfer's adoption of this part of that pre-existing standard- have fixed mounting hole positions, the worst situation is panels which are too wide. Therefore the tolerance is plus 0, minus some typical amount. On full racks this is plus zero, minus 0.030" or 0.8mm. You can read the exact numbers for typical Euro panels on Doepfer's website in the mechanical section.

So fear not !those of you with ODC.. Your OCD is actually satisfied by having variable gaps. Because that's the expected and planned result from beginning by the powers who first made the decision to package electronics in this way!

And as someone earlier pointed out it's actually a help to cooling what is too often otherwise a sealed box. Unused Jack holes used to help much in this regard, but the rise of PCB mounted jacks -without a thru hole under the jack- have mostly eliminated this formerly helpful aid to heat removal.
Perfect! This sealed the deal. Thank you.
Last edited by Headlands on Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
jsleeio
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 7:52 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by jsleeio »

clearly none of you are truly CDO, you can't even get the letters in the correct order!

good point on the jacks not providing an airflow vector anymore. This does also mean they are less of a dust vector, though...
Zap him again! ZAP THE SONOFABITCH AGAIN!
User avatar
sket
Common Wiggler
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:45 pm
Location: yea im a wiggler keep scrollin
Contact:

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by sket »

SkyWriter wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:44 pm I use sliding nuts and a feeler gauge :0)
what does the feeler gauge do in this case?
User avatar
jsleeio
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 7:52 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by jsleeio »

sket wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:49 pm
SkyWriter wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:44 pm I use sliding nuts and a feeler gauge :0)
what does the feeler gauge do in this case?
it would ensure even gaps
Zap him again! ZAP THE SONOFABITCH AGAIN!
User avatar
tdallas
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 734
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:55 am
Location: Germany

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by tdallas »

Some air flow supporting gaps are fine (to me). My magic brain fart sometimes goes „brrrrr“ when knobs on a newer module begin to wobble or loosing their „haptic resistance“ … the beauty of hardware :hihi: :hit:

I really envy the people who can throw modules in a rack without much concern and just make music.
User avatar
SkyWriter
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:18 pm
Location: Absolute Elsewhere
Contact:

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by SkyWriter »

jsleeio wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:30 am
sket wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:49 pm
SkyWriter wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:44 pm I use sliding nuts and a feeler gauge :0)
what does the feeler gauge do in this case?
it would ensure even gaps
yes. feeler gauge is used to gap spark plug(s) - and other stuff.

I am intolerant of tolerances! lol
give a hoot, don't fucking pollute.
R.U.Nuts
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2279
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:43 pm

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by R.U.Nuts »

Headlands wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:20 pm

And every single module maker and faceplate-maker should always have some leeway with their screw holes; there's not a single reason not to!
It's easier and hence cheaper to drill simple round holes. So production cost is a reason. Sliding nuts FTW.
User avatar
Pelsea
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:46 am
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by Pelsea »

Tip: don’t tighten any screws until all of the panels in a row are in place. This lets you slide things around if the last couple of panels are tight.
Books and tutorials on modular synthesis at http://peterelsea.com
Patch responsibly.
pqe
User avatar
jsleeio
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 7:52 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: OCD question about gaps between modules.

Post by jsleeio »

Pelsea wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:52 pm Tip: don’t tighten any screws until all of the panels in a row are in place
this is good advice ... until you have really long rails.

I've found with my Doepfer Monster cases (168hp wide) that populating them is much, much easier if I temporarily install a pair of 4hp panels on either side of the middle of each row and tighten the screws down properly. Keeps the rails closer to straight and parallel. Especially in the Monster Base where access to the top rail in the top row is a bit diffcult
Zap him again! ZAP THE SONOFABITCH AGAIN!
Post Reply

Return to “1U & 3U Eurorack Modules”