ES-8/ES-9 Alternatives and Opinions

[smelly&dex]

I've been thinking about investing in an Expert Sleepers ES 8 or 9 for the last few months to bridge the gap between my DAW and my rack, but I would love to know what other alternatives y'all are using to make the leap. I like love to keep the solutions confined to my rack, but I'm also open to ideas that break out of the 1U and 3U eurorack formats.

Some background:
I use a Soundcraft 12 MTK as an interface at the moment, but it's not DC-coupled and I would like a solution that lets me run CV and audio both ways. I also use FL Studio for music production and TouchDesigner for visuals, althought I'm familiar with both Max and Ableton.
DIY friendly

What solutions do ya'll use to bridge the gap? What are the pros and cons of your setup? Should I bite the $$$ bullet and just grab an ES-9?

[wont]

I have an ES-8 and I love it, but I regularly wish I had the I/O and mixing functionality that the ES-9 offers all in one place + in rack. If you're looking to replace your MTK, the ES-9 is what I would recommend.

[closedLoop]

Are there other interfaces that are DC-coupled?
I ended up with the ES-9 because it was the only DC-coupled interface I could find at the time. I really like the LED jacks on the ES-9, because it's a quick way to confirm what's reaching the interface, and should be available on the computer side.

[wont]

ES-8 and ES-9 are the only full in-rack audio interfaces I know of. Expert Sleepers has some other options / expanders that connect via ADAT and offer DC coupled I/O. Boredbrain OPTX also connects via ADAT, but the inputs have filtering so some users on here had issues sending CV from modular to PC.

MOTU seems popular for out of rack. I think the newer RME Interfaces are fully DC coupled too.

There is a thread with a lot of options here: viewtopic.php?t=253404

[dreamrobe]

The only downside with ES-9 is that you have to deal with their mixer which is still an enigma to me.

[GGW]

I have the ES-8 and can confirm that it works great.
I've seen mention of a mod for cheaper ESI interfaces that is supposed to change them to DC coupled, but I do not have experience with this. Has anyone here tried this system?

https://bazzmaka.blogspot.com/2018/12/d ... -with.html

[Agawell]

iirc a lot of slightly older rme interfaces - think firewire - are dc coupled - and can be available used for very little, but then no warranty and you'll probably have to deal with converter cables and potential driver issues

[Ellingferd]

The only downside with ES-9 is that you have to deal with their mixer which is still an enigma to me.

It’s so confusing and makes me feel stupid every time I try to really understand it…

[ima_jrk]

MOTU seems popular for out of rack.

MOTU have DC coupled outputs but not inputs, but yes they are lovely modular companions unless you need 8V triggers. The max voltage for their their highest end interfaces is 14.6Vpp.

All out ranges are at the bottom of this article, click!tap the blocks to expand the tables.
https://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/ ... patibility

[BaloErets]

My 2 cents is that if you are on Mac, the ES-9 is the perfect option. If you are using windows, avoid it at all costs, unless you are prepared to use the ES-9 as your one and only audio interface. This has nothing to do with Expert Sleepers, but all to do with the fact that windows absolutely sucks at using more than one ASIO audio interface at the same time.

Forget ASIO4All. Not worth the effort at all and you are rolling the dice to see how stable your soundcard will work with a 2nd one running, and will be a further gamble to see what inputs/outputs ASIO4All will detect when having multiple soundcards running at the same time.

[dreamrobe]

The only downside with ES-9 is that you have to deal with their mixer which is still an enigma to me.

It’s so confusing and makes me feel stupid every time I try to really understand it…

Me too and I studied audio engineering.
Maybe some colors would help or a change to the gui so we know what is what.
I pushed the faders until I got a result I could work with and now I don't that thing again.
It was like a frustrating origami puzzle, I just got lucky, trial by error.
I watched many YouTube-videos about that es-9 mixer but somehow this mix-system won't stick.

[texturerama]

My 2 cents is that if you are on Mac, the ES-9 is the perfect option. If you are using windows, avoid it at all costs, unless you are prepared to use the ES-9 as your one and only audio interface. This has nothing to do with Expert Sleepers, but all to do with the fact that windows absolutely sucks at using more than one ASIO audio interface at the same time.

Forget ASIO4All. Not worth the effort at all and you are rolling the dice to see how stable your soundcard will work with a 2nd one running, and will be a further gamble to see what inputs/outputs ASIO4All will detect when having multiple soundcards running at the same time.

I'm a Windows user and I have an ES-9. Yeah, I can confirm that this is the most annoying part of the whole workflow.

However, there are a few programs that support multiple sound cards at the same time. Notably, VCV Rack 2 and TouchDesigner!

[morphmuse]

ES-9 is totally worth the money. I am on Windows, it works fine, though I have never tried using my other audio interface (Arturia AudioFuse Studio) at the same time as the ES-9, so I can't speak to how well Windows handles more than one ASIO interface simultaneously.

[Multi Grooves]

Are there other interfaces that are DC-coupled?
I ended up with the ES-9 because it was the only DC-coupled interface I could find at the time. I really like the LED jacks on the ES-9, because it's a quick way to confirm what's reaching the interface, and should be available on the computer side.

Motu- outside the track are DC coupled.

I used to have an es8 but needed way more inputs, do now use an es9.

[jzwoopwoop]

Another way to handle this, particularly if you don't want your audio interface to be completely in your rack, is to get an audio interface that has both ADAT in & out ports. Then you can use Expert Sleepers ES-3 & ES-6, which will just occupy the digital ADAT tracks of your audio interface. Practically not much difference from using ES-8/ES-9 and could be considering more fiddly, so would really only be the way to go if your priority is utilizing an audio interface that is outside of your eurorack.

But I have this setup now in conjunction with a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, have been using this setup for years, and it's fantastic.

[benway]

My 2 cents is that if you are on Mac, the ES-9 is the perfect option.

Gonna agree with this, I'm on Mac and the ES-9 has exceeded my expectations in terms of reliability and how generally slick the experience is.

My only complaint would be that sometimes I feel like I'd like more CV outputs, but the ES-5 expansion requiring Silent Way seems a bit awkward to me. Anyway, in reality probably 8 is plenty, beyond that would probably end up veering in to hardware plugin territory.

[Halfgeleider]

The only downside with ES-9 is that you have to deal with their mixer which is still an enigma to me.

It’s so confusing and makes me feel stupid every time I try to really understand it…

Me too and I studied audio engineering.
Maybe some colors would help or a change to the gui so we know what is what.
I pushed the faders until I got a result I could work with and now I don't that thing again.
It was like a frustrating origami puzzle, I just got lucky, trial by error.
I watched many YouTube-videos about that es-9 mixer but somehow this mix-system won't stick.

This... the ES9 is topnotch for me and so powerfull but pleaaaaase could someone stand up and explain how the routing works because it is hell to work with... just clicking en moving faders until i get what i need but there’s so much potential underneath the hood and i feel i’m using only 10% off it.
The softmixing, stereolinks, the whole IO config stuff.

[Smapti]

I use ES-9 with multiple ASIO interfaces on Windows with no problems -- "avoid at all costs" is not a fair statement. True, it's not as easy as on a Mac, but it's straightforward once you've found the program that works for you. (Personally I like Dante Via, but Voicemeeter is also good.)

[denkom]

The only downside with ES-9 is that you have to deal with their mixer which is still an enigma to me.

It’s so confusing and makes me feel stupid every time I try to really understand it…

Completely agree, but to be honest, I don't really seem to need it so I just ignore it. At some point I'll probably try to figure it out again, but when I first got my ES-9 and tried to understand the mixer, my head needed a two week vacation afterwards...

[clwilla]

The only downside with ES-9 is that you have to deal with their mixer which is still an enigma to me.

It’s so confusing and makes me feel stupid every time I try to really understand it…

Agreed.

Seems like those guys could do much better.

I generally use AUM in my iPad as a mixer with the ES-9.

[Tun]

My 2 cents is that if you are on Mac, the ES-9 is the perfect option. If you are using windows, avoid it at all costs, unless you are prepared to use the ES-9 as your one and only audio interface. This has nothing to do with Expert Sleepers, but all to do with the fact that windows absolutely sucks at using more than one ASIO audio interface at the same time.

Forget ASIO4All. Not worth the effort at all and you are rolling the dice to see how stable your soundcard will work with a 2nd one running, and will be a further gamble to see what inputs/outputs ASIO4All will detect when having multiple soundcards running at the same time.

I'm a Windows user and I have an ES-9. Yeah, I can confirm that this is the most annoying part of the whole workflow.

However, there are a few programs that support multiple sound cards at the same time. Notably, VCV Rack 2 and TouchDesigner!

On a PC here, was looking to add DC coupled I/O for direct CV control. I was already running an RME PCIe MADI card with good converters for audio I/O, and luckily the RME RayDAT card shares the same RME driver… gotta love RME. So the HDSPe MADI card handles audio I/O and the HDSPe RayDAT feeds 4 ES-3, an ES-6 and ES-7, basically all modulation i/o between the modular and Bitwig’s grid. If I could afford it I wouldn’t hesitate to get another RayDAT and 4 more ES-3. Obviously this system is only viable with several PCIe slots and with given ADAT restrictions I’m limited to working at 44.1 or 48KHz to have access to all 32 RayDAT outs. The Hammerfall cards are quite old now however, all superseded by the current top of the pile RME interfaces.

I don’t know why no manufacturers have filled the gap with a high quality, high channel count DC coupled interface, there was a recent Ferrofish model but it seems to have been discontinued.

[LDT]

The only downside with ES-9 is that you have to deal with their mixer which is still an enigma to me.

It’s so confusing and makes me feel stupid every time I try to really understand it…

Me too and I studied audio engineering.
Maybe some colors would help or a change to the gui so we know what is what.
I pushed the faders until I got a result I could work with and now I don't that thing again.
It was like a frustrating origami puzzle, I just got lucky, trial by error.
I watched many YouTube-videos about that es-9 mixer but somehow this mix-system won't stick.

This... the ES9 is topnotch for me and so powerfull but pleaaaaase could someone stand up and explain how the routing works because it is hell to work with... just clicking en moving faders until i get what i need but there’s so much potential underneath the hood and i feel i’m using only 10% off it.
The softmixing, stereolinks, the whole IO config stuff.

Guys, I feel your pain. I am just here to say, that I sat down one day and figured it out. Yes, it looks confusing, but it is surprisingly simple.
I wrote about it in the thread “ES-9 standalone summing”:

Here is the sketch I made:

I hope this will get you into the basics of the mixer.

Anyway, I will add that the ES-9 is one hell of a piece of hardware and using it together with an iPad as a complete mixing and recording solution has truely been a game changer for my system.

[Blingley]

Are there other interfaces that are DC-coupled?

RME M-32 Pro DA, but it's ~3700€

[virtualpt]

The only downside with ES-9 is that you have to deal with their mixer which is still an enigma to me.

Agreed. It is why I eventually sold my ES-9. Bad user interfaces really spoil my enjoyment, so I no longer put up with them.

[smelly&dex]

My 2 cents is that if you are on Mac, the ES-9 is the perfect option. If you are using windows, avoid it at all costs, unless you are prepared to use the ES-9 as your one and only audio interface. This has nothing to do with Expert Sleepers, but all to do with the fact that windows absolutely sucks at using more than one ASIO audio interface at the same time.

Forget ASIO4All. Not worth the effort at all and you are rolling the dice to see how stable your soundcard will work with a 2nd one running, and will be a further gamble to see what inputs/outputs ASIO4All will detect when having multiple soundcards running at the same time.

Okay, I have Windows and have had endless troubles with ASIO already so noted.

The only downside with ES-9 is that you have to deal with their mixer which is still an enigma to me.

Agreed. It is why I eventually sold my ES-9. Bad user interfaces really spoil my enjoyment, so I no longer put up with them.

What did you switch to?