You like what they do, but not how they do it

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

User avatar
thelowerrhythm
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 734
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:45 pm
Location: Corvallis, OR

You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by thelowerrhythm » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:24 pm

I really like the Klavis Twin Waves, a lot, but despise interacting with that sort of mode switching. Menu diving in general gets to me, so it's not often I even get close enough to learn if I like something or not.

Know any modules like this? Not just menu diving vs. not menu diving, but anything with an underlying pot of gold, but an interface you can't get into.
"Ah yeah, you’ve got that strange blend of apathy and self-flagellation that somehow gets you where you want to go."

User avatar
hawkfuzz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:33 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by hawkfuzz » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:28 pm

USTA the workflow is so close but not 100% what I'd prefer for programming.
THUMPR BC SC

User avatar
nolongerhuman
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 735
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:40 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by nolongerhuman » Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:07 pm

Mode switching modules in general drive me nuts. They are already super small, having multiple functions in a tiny interface just makes me not want to use it. Seems like most people around love it though.

Loved the features, couldn’t get into the interface... off the top of my head:

Pam New Workout, Eloquencer, Clouds, Erica Blackhole DSP, Tides, Tempi, Disting...

For me though modular is more about the interface than almost anything else. So tiny screens, tons of button combos, unlabeled modes, any module that almost requires a cheat sheet, tiny pot shafts are all mostly avoided.

User avatar
megarat
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 615
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:09 pm
Location: Hyperborean Hinterlands

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by megarat » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:57 pm

Mutable Instruments. Such great ideas, such great technical execution, such a great open-source community ethos, but I can’t stand the interface on most of the modules. Hidden/secret modes, status/settings indicated by an LED light/color w/o any legend on the panel, etc. I can’t abide that kind of opacity.
Last edited by megarat on Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
brandonlogic
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3149
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:17 am
Location: Milwaukee WI

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by brandonlogic » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:21 pm

Reflex liveloop. amazing sound and function with a user interface from hell.

User avatar
studioutopia
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:28 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by studioutopia » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:21 pm

megarat wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:57 pm
Mutable Instruments. Such great ideas, such great technical execution, such a great open source community ethos, but I can’t stand the interface on most of the modules. Hidden/secret modes, status/settings indicated by an LED light/color w/o any legend on the panel, etc. I can’t abide that kind of opacity.
Agree completely. When I finally decided to dive into modular, I was so excited to get into Mutable because I had some history with Shruthi (Shruthii? Shruthis?). I bought Plaits, Marbles, Rings, Stages, Tides, and Ripples. Love what they do. Totally hated using them.
All I have left of Mutable is Ripples and Stages. Stages does some fantastic things, but I find it so laborious to use. With the new firmware, it has bipolar LFOs and some cool random stuff... but I only use it when ochd and Batumi are busy. And I find Quadigy so much more gratifying as a complex EG... even with its menus. At least I can see exactly what is going on without a "lightshow translation".

User avatar
Freaky Steve
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:36 pm
Location: St. Louis
Contact:

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by Freaky Steve » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:32 am

Starling via scanner
Really cool concept just doesn't pull it off, documentation needlessly complicated, dead spots all over, sweet spots few and far between.
I knew I was in trouble when it was flashed with the wrong firmware for the version I bought.

There are 6 other firmwares I can flash it with but I'm thinking they are all going to be the same way.

Probably just end up writing my own sketch for it.

User avatar
racooniac
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:53 am
Location: Austria, Salzburg

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by racooniac » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:47 am

i always forgot what the led colors on the qubit modules i had mean, so i sold them.

now i am an avid hater of remembering led colors.

same with mutable instruments.

PNW is cool for me tho.

User avatar
muleskinner
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:29 am
Location: Nr. Bath, UK
Contact:

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by muleskinner » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:58 am

megarat wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:57 pm
Mutable Instruments. Such great ideas, such great technical execution, such a great open source community ethos, but I can’t stand the interface on most of the modules. Hidden/secret modes, status/settings indicated by an LED light/color w/o any legend on the panel, etc. I can’t abide that kind of opacity.
I agree.

I would also add Batumi to the list, and it gets worse with the 'expert' firmware.

People complain about screens but I would much rather have a module with a menu/screen than one with multiple functions hidden behind button press combos with no visual feedback as to what's going on.
Jamming, Patching and Twiddling: http://bit.ly/facelessmule
Currently Selling (UK): Akemie's Taiko, Plaits

Raindeer
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:45 am

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by Raindeer » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:00 am

studioutopia wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:21 pm
megarat wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:57 pm
Mutable Instruments. Such great ideas, such great technical execution, such a great open source community ethos, but I can’t stand the interface on most of the modules. Hidden/secret modes, status/settings indicated by an LED light/color w/o any legend on the panel, etc. I can’t abide that kind of opacity.
Agree completely. When I finally decided to dive into modular, I was so excited to get into Mutable because I had some history with Shruthi (Shruthii? Shruthis?). I bought Plaits, Marbles, Rings, Stages, Tides, and Ripples. Love what they do. Totally hated using them.
All I have left of Mutable is Ripples and Stages. Stages does some fantastic things, but I find it so laborious to use. With the new firmware, it has bipolar LFOs and some cool random stuff... but I only use it when ochd and Batumi are busy. And I find Quadigy so much more gratifying as a complex EG... even with its menus. At least I can see exactly what is going on without a "lightshow translation".
I think Plaits does take it too far, but Tides (V2) got this balance just about perfect. Look at the manual once and you’ll know exactly what’s going on because it’s all one concept and the knobs do not change function depending on mode.

User avatar
hel1
Common Wiggler
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:31 am
Location: Netherlands/Italy

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by hel1 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:06 am

for me is is the Morphagene, love the idea, gives great results but I couldn't get used to the way you have to use these button combinations. kept splicing when wanting to change reel, deleting when wanting to splice... (well, I can't really remember, but that was the problem)
so I swapped it for a Lubadh. also a couple of button combinations, but for me far more logical..

User avatar
Freaky Steve
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:36 pm
Location: St. Louis
Contact:

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by Freaky Steve » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:40 am

One that's the opposite of this, I thought it would be impossible to get my head around but ended up being very intuitive is 4ms SWN.
It does use a color scheme but it actually makes sense.
There are dual functions to all the buttons but they are clearly marked on the panel and make sense.

Has a really cool work flow 106 user presets, 106 user spheres.

Just a dream to work with even though the concept seems daunting as hell. If you thought such a complicated thing would be confusing, it really isn't after getting the feel of it. Cant vouch for the other 4ms stuff but they really nailed it on this one.

User avatar
staticmass
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:16 pm

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by staticmass » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:09 am

Mungo D0. It's definitely not leaving my rack, but using the zoom feature feels like fumbling around in the dark. Fortunately its full of wonderful sounding surprises but I think it will be a while before what I do with it is intentional. The open layout in terms of feedback patching is awesome though. Hopefully the whole zoom thing will grow on me given what it allows for in terms of Karplus-Strong, etc.

User avatar
xcc
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 799
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:37 am
Location: TX

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by xcc » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:59 am

hel1 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:06 am
for me is is the Morphagene, love the idea, gives great results but I couldn't get used to the way you have to use these button combinations. kept splicing when wanting to change reel, deleting when wanting to splice... (well, I can't really remember, but that was the problem)
so I swapped it for a Lubadh. also a couple of button combinations, but for me far more logical..
Same. I had to break out the cheat sheet every single time I used it, to the point that I realized I never used it anymore.

User avatar
bobbylandry
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:16 pm
Location: Chattanooga, TN / Cambridge, MA
Contact:

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by bobbylandry » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:18 am

Anything with a pot or slider that isn't reflecting what is actually happening. Drives me completely nuts.

Turn a knob to one spot, press a button, now that knobs does something different, turn it to some spot, now the knob position has no relevance to the first setting you made.

Encoders and a screen are cool, I can get into an old rompler or something with no problems at all. Lots of controls that do 1 thing and then there are presets, totally fine as long as there's a "panel mode" or whatever to make what's being played what the controls are actually set to. A set of envelope sliders with a button next to them to change which envelope they're editing? No way.

User avatar
veets
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:54 pm
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
Contact:

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by veets » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:58 am

Modules with sliders that have different purposes depending on setting.

I've ditched some of the more complicated modules for those that are direct and intuitive. I found otherwise I never fully utilize the features because I can't bloody-well remember how to get at them.

User avatar
Peng33
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:25 pm

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by Peng33 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:00 am

Disting. 'Nuff said.

User avatar
Pelsea
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1240
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:46 am
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by Pelsea » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:43 pm

My peeve with many modules (especially Mutable) is inscrutable labels. I generally paste my own over the micro-icons. They are still a bit vague, but easier to learn.
MIlabels.jpg
Books and tutorials on modular synthesis at http://peterelsea.com
Patch responsibly.
pqe

User avatar
veets
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:54 pm
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
Contact:

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by veets » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:56 pm

I just bought a Strymon Magneto after researching many alternatives. In the end I chose Magneto despite it being more expensive and consuming more hp than the others because it is totally straight forward from a UI perspective. I don't intend to slag the alternatives -- to each their own -- but often, as Pelsea points out, the design aesthetic and labels (and operation) are inscrutable. I'm left feeling like I never fully utilize the capabilities. Or am I just this guy?

:youkids:

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by Daisuk » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:58 pm

brandonlogic wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:21 pm
Reflex liveloop. amazing sound and function with a user interface from hell.
This. Its got so much great going for it, but the UI is just insane, not user friendly at all.

I recently got a Netron Sound Dust of Time. It's excellent, but meny divey as hell, and the UI is not what I'd call intuitive.

Also, all the new Industrial Music Electronics modules - HD3 and Piston 3, hold an encoder and press a button and scroll through - blah blah. I hated it so much I just had to get rid of those modules.

User avatar
target_destroyed
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:20 pm
Location: Illinoise

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by target_destroyed » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:08 pm

Pretty much any module with gratuitous button combos that I need a cheat-sheet to remember.

User avatar
bobbylandry
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:16 pm
Location: Chattanooga, TN / Cambridge, MA
Contact:

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by bobbylandry » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:08 pm

Pelsea wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:43 pm
My peeve with many modules (especially Mutable) is inscrutable labels. I generally paste my own over the micro-icons. They are still a bit vague, but easier to learn.
MIlabels.jpg
For Clouds I'm with you. It got discontinued and I think for good reason.

For Plaits I'm fully onboard with the way it's presented because I don't always want or need to know what type of synthesis method is being used. I have no idea what the symbols mean and I don't really care because I know the knobs will do what they say regardless of the synthesis method. And I think that's the point of the module. I also fully understand that's the antithesis of what a lot of people like about modular, which is totally cool.

User avatar
veets
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:54 pm
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
Contact:

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by veets » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:53 pm

Daisuk wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:58 pm
I recently got a Netron Sound Dust of Time. It's excellent, but meny divey as hell, and the UI is not what I'd call intuitive.
I just built one and enjoyed the challenge. It's an amazingly powerful device, but learning it will require patience and determination. (And then I'll probably sell it, when I inevitably fall short on both counts.)

User avatar
deftinwulf
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:34 am

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by deftinwulf » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:14 pm

Echoing others' sentiments: anything with button combos, unlabeled (on the panel) functions, hidden modes that require a cheat sheet, push+turn encoders, and Disting.

I also hate those befaco pot-condom things that people use as "knobs" on t-18 shafts. I'd honestly rather have trim pots - at least they're easier to turn, and more grippy. Now that Thonk makes caps for the (long enough) trim pots, I'm starting to like them, actually. They are a better solution than Befaco's t-18 shaft caps, IMO. But I'd still prefer full size knobs and uncramped panel layouts above all.

R.U.Nuts
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2106
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:43 pm

Re: You like what they do, but not how they do it

Post by R.U.Nuts » Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:06 pm

Mini shaft pots. I hate them. I avoid them where ever possible. They're OK as CV input attenuators or for set and forget parameters but that's it.
It's just so unsatisfying to turn them and make a module that is otherwise great look and feel cheap.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”