Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

Post Reply
Dan S
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:26 pm

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by Dan S » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:05 am

Zentek wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:29 am
To go over 5Hz, you can use the global clock and set the multiply to x16. This way you could reach 80Hz.
Thanks for the suggestion. It seems to work fine up to x8, but does not loop correctly at x9 and over.
Scope picture show my test at x16, A=D, R=0s, "Filling" set to 100%.
Also, it would be very helpful to have per-envelope multipliers, as opposed to global (I usually allocate 2 channels for ADSR, and 2 channels for LFO).
Thanks again for your help :tu:
Attachments
SDS00001.png

smoo
Common Wiggler
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:34 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by smoo » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:51 am

Question. Is Quadigy also a fast and snappy envelope? I am using the Z4000 which is really fast.

I cant fiind any informtion about that online.

User avatar
mdoudoroff
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4354
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:10 am
Location: New York City

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by mdoudoroff » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:17 pm

smoo wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:51 am
Question. Is Quadigy also a fast and snappy envelope? I am using the Z4000 which is really fast.

I cant fiind any informtion about that online.
Quadigy isn’t “unsnappy”, but it’s a digital module, and pretty much impossible for it to be utterly latency-free like an analog EG.

Here’s a zoomed-in recording of the same signal through two VCAs opened by the same trigger to Quadigy and Maths, respectively:
2020-12-06 at 3.08 PM.jpg
As you can see, the bottom one (Maths) begins ever so slightly earlier.

Another difference is that Quadigy (below, green trace) produces an 8v envelope, whereas Maths (blue trace) is close to 10v. You can also see from this overlay of the actual envelopes that the latency is generally insignificant, and that both EGs have similarly fast attacks.
B83A3B4C-38A1-4024-8F43-D316F0E88A48_1_201_a.jpg

Jee
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:50 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by Jee » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:04 pm

From my user perspective and in terms of musical approach this difference is totally neglectable.

In the most extreme audio rate triggering that might make a small difference but with more classical use I would definitely say that quadigy is actually quite snappy, still.

The option to bend (strongly) the segment into exp/log curves also helps a lot for fast percussive stuff.
Last edited by Jee on Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Zentek
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:15 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by Zentek » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:42 am

Background info about "snappy" envelopes in the Quadigy

In a typical analogue envelope generator, the rise time depends on the load time of a capacitor.
The constraint is that a fast rise ideally requires an instant charge of the capacitor, which is not possible as the capacitor should also care for longer times. This explains why many analog envelopes have a range setting so that switching to a smaller capacitor for short range allows a faster charge.

In the Quadigy there are two independent aspects defining the attack timing: the time to initiate the envelope and the rise time once the envelope begins.

We chose to make the Quadigy a quad envelope where all time constants are relating to an overall system clock for reasons of cycle synchronization among others. This creates a little lag in a fraction of a millisecond before the envelope begins. (as in the first image that mdoudoroff posted)

As for the rise time, which is the only aspect that defines the snapiness that could be heard, it fits in 3/10th of a millisecond (curve from 10% to 90% level).
This fast rise time is independent of the overall envelope time, even if decay or release are several minutes long.

Quadigy rise time
Quadigy rise time
The steps in the image are only due to the scope display given that the Quadigy generates envelopes in 4096 levels and implements filters that eliminate all digital artifact.
Last edited by Zentek on Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Klavis
Fine Modular Designs

smoo
Common Wiggler
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:34 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by smoo » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:29 am

Interesting. I' d have to buy the quadigs to hear it But snappyness to be heard is defined by a very fast step attack, but then its the velocity of the decay and the curve of the decay. I basically wanted to know how snappy the decay is. There are some very good digital EGs around, for instance the ones in the Hydrasynth. I never got warm with the pretty snappy WMD Multimode EG.

User avatar
Zentek
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:15 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by Zentek » Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:08 pm

smoo wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:29 am
... I basically wanted to know how snappy the decay is...
Exactly as fast as the attack ;)
You can also tailor each curve separately for log/lin/exp continuously.
As an example, the decay may begin with an instant fall (pulse-like) to become a softer slope once halfway.
Such settings are highly effective and versatile for percussive sounds. 8-)
Klavis
Fine Modular Designs

vraufen
Common Wiggler
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:13 pm

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by vraufen » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:06 pm

The quadigy is very snappy, I dont think it would leave you wanting

smoo
Common Wiggler
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:34 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by smoo » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:53 pm

great thanks. Ordered.

vraufen
Common Wiggler
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:13 pm

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by vraufen » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:43 pm

smoo wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:53 pm
great thanks. Ordered.
when you get it and are trying to dial in your snappy sound, make sure you adjust the global time for that envelope so your slider range goes from 0-the longest you would possibly want, otherwise you only have the bottom half of the slider for lower values. And though the global time is reduced, you will still see the same ms value range no matter what so keep that in mind.

I usually have the global times for all of them around 45%, since I never really need super long envelopes.

smoo
Common Wiggler
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:34 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by smoo » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:09 am

I just played with it and its extremely snappy. Its very fast and extreme settings are possible.

User avatar
klstay
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 603
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:50 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by klstay » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:57 am

Sent a PM, but posting here for comment/feedback/ideas from other Quadigy users.

Would it be possible to add an "accent" on the CV ins similar to the WMD Javelin?

The CV in would provide the trigger signal and sliders could be assigned to control level range, "successive add" limit, step range, and quick on/off perhaps.

User avatar
mdoudoroff
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4354
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:10 am
Location: New York City

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by mdoudoroff » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:03 am

klstay wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:57 am
Sent a PM, but posting here for comment/feedback/ideas from other Quadigy users.

Would it be possible to add an "accent" on the CV ins similar to the WMD Javelin?

The CV in would provide the trigger signal and sliders could be assigned to control level range, "successive add" limit, step range, and quick on/off perhaps.
The brilliance of the modulation matrix on Quadigy is that you can dial in whatever combination of effects that an “accent” gate has on your envelopes. But it does need to be a gate, not a trigger.

User avatar
klstay
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 603
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:50 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by klstay » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:32 am

The gate vs. trigger is why I ask. It is relatively straightforward to add an incoming CV level to an envelope for an "accent" and even step that up/down with successive envelopes to get the effect. However, that requires "programming" that successively rising CV level compared to simply enabling various steps/stages in a trigger sequencer lane as are present in a number of such modules.

For me it comes down to live exploration/playability which is, I believe, one of the reasons WMD implemented the Javelin the way they did.

User avatar
mdoudoroff
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4354
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:10 am
Location: New York City

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by mdoudoroff » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:47 am

klstay wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:32 am
The gate vs. trigger is why I ask. It is relatively straightforward to add an incoming CV level to an envelope for an "accent" and even step that up/down with successive envelopes to get the effect. However, that requires "programming" that successively rising CV level compared to simply enabling various steps/stages in a trigger sequencer lane as are present in a number of such modules.

For me it comes down to live exploration/playability which is, I believe, one of the reasons WMD implemented the Javelin the way they did.
The up-side to Javelin’s accent input is that it has a particular, complex behavior out-of-the-box. You’re not going to find that particular out-of-the-box behavior anywhere else, period. It’s unique. It could be quite laborious to patch something that complex up. But there are other ways to create expression, and Quadigy offers a ton of them.

User avatar
klstay
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 603
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:50 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by klstay » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:27 pm

And THAT is the beauty of modular! I get to have a Quadigy AND a Javelin...

kso
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 2:14 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by kso » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:51 am

Zentek wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:38 am

Thanks for exploring the cycle mode of the Quadigy. :tu:
I don't see what do you mean with "cycle duration is set to “Envelope Time” instead of a percentage".
There is no such setting in the Quadigy. Maybe is it something else that I don't get? :hmm:

With cycle, the timing settings of the envelope segments are used to set the proportions of the "LFO shape" without breaking the rate.
In this way, reshaping is feasible "live" while keeping the rate unchanged.
It is the intent of the implementation and not a bug.
For LFO purposes, only the Tempo is the overall rate control.
Greetings!

I too would like a feature to unlock BPM sync when looping on individual cycles if envelope filling is set to 0% ("Env Timing"), like triggering itself with end-of-cycle. Sometimes BPM is not precise enough. It would give an option of free-running LFOs with exact timings (and retain the current functionality)

Also, could you please clarify whether output voltage is rounded up to 1%? When using envelopes on pitch I would sometimes want to use 1 octave, but as the module outputs 8V, that's 12.5% out level, which is impossible to set right now. Maybe if resolution was 0.5% it would be easier to get exact values like +5V, which could be re-e-eally convenient

Anyways, thank you and keep up the good work!

User avatar
Zentek
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:15 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by Zentek » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:48 pm

kso wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:51 am
I too would like a feature to unlock BPM sync when looping on individual cycles if envelope filling is set to 0% ("Env Timing"), like triggering itself with end-of-cycle. Sometimes BPM is not precise enough. It would give an option of free-running LFOs with exact timings (and retain the current functionality)
I see what you mean. This is something to put in the list.
Thank you for the suggestion. :tu:
Also, could you please clarify whether output voltage is rounded up to 1%? When using envelopes on pitch I would sometimes want to use 1 octave, but as the module outputs 8V, that's 12.5% out level, which is impossible to set right now. Maybe if resolution was 0.5% it would be easier to get exact values like +5V, which could be re-e-eally convenient
The display shows rounded values; the actual step is under 2mV.
The max output voltage is not calibrated, so it is not exactly 8V
However, once set, a voltage is precise and can be stored.

It might be a bit tricky to fall exactly on the exact voltage you expect given the range of 8 Volts along the fader.
Hopefully, there is a solution:
Adjust your desired voltage as best as you can on the output level setting; this will be your coarse pitch setting.
Bring a fixed voltage between 20 to 30mV to one of the CV inputs.
Adjust the CV matrix for output level to offset your manual setting; this is your fine pitch setting.
This trick offers you a precise and easy adjustment.

You can have different coarse and fine settings for each channel.

Have fun,

Eric
Klavis
Fine Modular Designs

iLex
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:26 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by iLex » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:52 am

Hi All, new to the forum and new to the Quadigy too.

I have a question:
I seem to be experiencing a slight 'dip' in CV between the D and S stage of an ADSR in Quadigy.
Basically It sounds like the D stage ends slightly below the level of S and then quickly, yet smoothly goes up to S.
It is minor but noticeable and none of my other envelopes show this behaviour.
Anyone else have this problem?

I just got my Quadigy so I am not sure if it is something I did wrong, or if it is something in the Quadigy.
Basically everything is at 0, except for D and S.
I've tried different VCAs to test.
Also I tried different envelopes. Only the Quadigy does this.

Firmware is 1.19 it says.

Thanks in advance!

Karl_Joseph
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 626
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by Karl_Joseph » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:58 am

iLex wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:52 am
Hi All, new to the forum and new to the Quadigy too.

I have a question:
I seem to be experiencing a slight 'dip' in CV between the D and S stage of an ADSR in Quadigy.
Basically It sounds like the D stage ends slightly below the level of S and then quickly, yet smoothly goes up to S.
It is minor but noticeable and none of my other envelopes show this behaviour.
Anyone else have this problem?

I just got my Quadigy so I am not sure if it is something I did wrong, or if it is something in the Quadigy.
Basically everything is at 0, except for D and S.
I've tried different VCAs to test.
Also I tried different envelopes. Only the Quadigy does this.

Firmware is 1.19 it says.

Thanks in advance!
I think I noticed this behavior last night as well. It may have to do with punch or hold as I think I was able to dial it out, but yeah, I noticed this at some point too.
- KARL

iLex
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:26 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by iLex » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:29 am

Karl_Joseph wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:58 am
iLex wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:52 am
Hi All, new to the forum and new to the Quadigy too.

I have a question:
I seem to be experiencing a slight 'dip' in CV between the D and S stage of an ADSR in Quadigy.
Basically It sounds like the D stage ends slightly below the level of S and then quickly, yet smoothly goes up to S.
It is minor but noticeable and none of my other envelopes show this behaviour.
Anyone else have this problem?

I just got my Quadigy so I am not sure if it is something I did wrong, or if it is something in the Quadigy.
Basically everything is at 0, except for D and S.
I've tried different VCAs to test.
Also I tried different envelopes. Only the Quadigy does this.

Firmware is 1.19 it says.

Thanks in advance!
I think I noticed this behavior last night as well. It may have to do with punch or hold as I think I was able to dial it out, but yeah, I noticed this at some point too.
Hi Karl,

Thank you for your reply. I guess this is the normal behaviour of the module then. I don't seem to be able to dial it out.
It is a pity as it is an amazing module on paper and a lot of people seem to really like it.

Cheers, Alex

Karl_Joseph
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 626
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by Karl_Joseph » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:31 am

iLex wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:29 am
Karl_Joseph wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:58 am
iLex wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:52 am
Hi All, new to the forum and new to the Quadigy too.

I have a question:
I seem to be experiencing a slight 'dip' in CV between the D and S stage of an ADSR in Quadigy.
Basically It sounds like the D stage ends slightly below the level of S and then quickly, yet smoothly goes up to S.
It is minor but noticeable and none of my other envelopes show this behaviour.
Anyone else have this problem?

I just got my Quadigy so I am not sure if it is something I did wrong, or if it is something in the Quadigy.
Basically everything is at 0, except for D and S.
I've tried different VCAs to test.
Also I tried different envelopes. Only the Quadigy does this.

Firmware is 1.19 it says.

Thanks in advance!
I think I noticed this behavior last night as well. It may have to do with punch or hold as I think I was able to dial it out, but yeah, I noticed this at some point too.
Hi Karl,

Thank you for your reply. I guess this is the normal behaviour of the module then. I don't seem to be able to dial it out.
It is a pity as it is an amazing module on paper and a lot of people seem to really like it.

Cheers, Alex
Well, I don’t think this is typical ADSR behavior. Perhaps Klavis is not aware of the issue and this can be corrected with a firmware update. Let’s send Klavis an email.

EDIT: Email sent
Last edited by Karl_Joseph on Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
- KARL

iLex
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:26 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by iLex » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:41 am

Karl_Joseph wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:31 am
iLex wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:29 am
Karl_Joseph wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:58 am
iLex wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:52 am
Hi All, new to the forum and new to the Quadigy too.

I have a question:
I seem to be experiencing a slight 'dip' in CV between the D and S stage of an ADSR in Quadigy.
Basically It sounds like the D stage ends slightly below the level of S and then quickly, yet smoothly goes up to S.
It is minor but noticeable and none of my other envelopes show this behaviour.
Anyone else have this problem?

I just got my Quadigy so I am not sure if it is something I did wrong, or if it is something in the Quadigy.
Basically everything is at 0, except for D and S.
I've tried different VCAs to test.
Also I tried different envelopes. Only the Quadigy does this.

Firmware is 1.19 it says.

Thanks in advance!
I think I noticed this behavior last night as well. It may have to do with punch or hold as I think I was able to dial it out, but yeah, I noticed this at some point too.
Hi Karl,

Thank you for your reply. I guess this is the normal behaviour of the module then. I don't seem to be able to dial it out.
It is a pity as it is an amazing module on paper and a lot of people seem to really like it.

Cheers, Alex
Well, I don’t think this is typical ADSR behavior. Perhaps Klavis is not aware of the issue and this can be corrected with a firmware update. Let’s send Klavis an email.
You are absolutely right. Software and all. I'll do that.

edit: done

User avatar
Zentek
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:15 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by Zentek » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:44 am

Regarding the small dip between the D and S stages, I Have not been able to reproduce it.
Can someone tell me the settings when this is seen?
Please mention also which firmware version you have.

If there is indeed something to fix, this will be done.

Thanks to all.

Eric
Klavis
Fine Modular Designs

iLex
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:26 am

Re: Klavis - Quadigy - Quad Envelope Generator

Post by iLex » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:39 am

Hi Eric,

Thank you so much for answering. And my apologies if I came across as blunt before. Was doing a million things at once.

Let me first make that up by thanking you for this brilliant module. I think you have found the perfect balance between analog usability and digital power.

Regarding the envelope:
I feel almost silly, but I can definitely here a change when going from the D to the S stage.
It is a very small change in voltage.
Firmware on my module is 1.19.

A typical setup where I hear it is:
Studio Mode (also present in Live Mode though)
A - 0 ms
D - 2.40 s
S - 45%
R - 0 ms
PD/H/P - 0 ms
GT - 100%
Cycle Mode off

I have attached an audio file. This is a saw wave I sent through a VCA controlled by the Quadigy. This is an example of the settings above. However, I cut off the first part of the sound so I could increase the gain a bit. So at around 2 seconds I can hear the change from the D stage to the S stage. The change in volume corresponds with the Quadigy showing a change from D to S.
It is ever so slightly and I am beginning to wonder what, if any, the implications are in practice. However, I did notice it within the first ten minutes of using the Quadigy.

Cheers, Alex
Attachments
Quadigy_test1.mp3
(112.98 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”