New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by galanter2 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:37 pm

intellijel wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:28 pm
galanter2 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:58 pm
the ones that are attenuverters should have a center detent for a 0 setting.
We have found that pots with center detent are rarely accurate with respect to center position. It is like +/-20% accuracy! For this reason we switched to using non-detented pots on most of our products some years ago. This way you can make fine adjustment to zero things out when necessary. At least with the sym/aux pots you have the option to turn the switch to "x" (off).
Hey, thanks for the explanation. And the off position is indeed a good thing!

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by ari ellis » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:58 pm

I'm having way too much fun getting to know this module, and am thinking about making some demos. Does anyone have any requests for things they'd like to hear?

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by ferran » Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:53 am

@jschussler nice video thanks !

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by goonlord » Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:03 pm

Okay, so I’m kind of a noob, but I really want to add a wavefolder to my set up. I was dead set on scooping the Bastl Timber, but the Bifold is really catching my eye. Can anyone with more experience breakdown the differences between the Timber and Bifold? Much thanks in advance!

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by zerodivide » Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:19 pm

ari ellis wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:58 pm
I'm having way too much fun getting to know this module, and am thinking about making some demos. Does anyone have any requests for things they'd like to hear?
Bifold on STO would be great, would love to hear how it compares to a DPO
goonlord wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:03 pm
Okay, so I’m kind of a noob, but I really want to add a wavefolder to my set up. I was dead set on scooping the Bastl Timber, but the Bifold is really catching my eye. Can anyone with more experience breakdown the differences between the Timber and Bifold? Much thanks in advance!

It's really just a preference thing of what sound you get, just like choosing an Oscillator. However in the Bifold's case you get 2 different flavors , a buchla-inspired one and a serge-one (plus a blend of the 2 even). Without even using it I can already guarantee it will be more interesting than Bastl's . I say go for it
mattdennewitz wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:14 pm
got mine yesterday from nightlife in vancouver, who've had it in stock for weeks now. it sounds exactly like i hoped it would: very warm, not aggressively buzzy like the ufold, or cold and harsh like the cs-l's wavefolder. cross-fading between fold types and/or input sources is also such a good feature. dixie and bifold of course make a great pair, and it compliments an older verbos co brilliantly. sounds especially good with a (borrow) natural gate. looking forward to trying the ring mod tip tonight.
totally agree with respect to CS-L's wavefolder. Really not feeling mine. Can you plz make a demo of how your Verbos sounds through it? I'm actually a huge fan of how my Verbos CO's wavefolder sounds

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by ari ellis » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:22 pm

zerodivide wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:19 pm
ari ellis wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:58 pm
I'm having way too much fun getting to know this module, and am thinking about making some demos. Does anyone have any requests for things they'd like to hear?
Bifold on STO would be great, would love to hear how it compares to a DPO
Unfortunately, STO is exactly what came out of my rack to make space for bifold! But, if there are any specific DPO sounds you can link to, it would be a fun exercise for me to try getting versions of them from my intellijel complex osc (dixie+rubicon+bifold).

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by feelingthin » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:52 am

ari ellis wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:22 pm
zerodivide wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:19 pm
ari ellis wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:58 pm
I'm having way too much fun getting to know this module, and am thinking about making some demos. Does anyone have any requests for things they'd like to hear?
Bifold on STO would be great, would love to hear how it compares to a DPO
Unfortunately, STO is exactly what came out of my rack to make space for bifold! But, if there are any specific DPO sounds you can link to, it would be a fun exercise for me to try getting versions of them from my intellijel complex osc (dixie+rubicon+bifold).
I also had a dixie rubicon bifold combo and ditched the dixie for a mangrove. Consider the mangrove osc as your modulation source. The tracking is near perfect.

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by Foghorn » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:18 am

feelingthin wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:52 am
ari ellis wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:22 pm
zerodivide wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:19 pm


Bifold on STO would be great, would love to hear how it compares to a DPO
Unfortunately, STO is exactly what came out of my rack to make space for bifold! But, if there are any specific DPO sounds you can link to, it would be a fun exercise for me to try getting versions of them from my intellijel complex osc (dixie+rubicon+bifold).
I also had a dixie rubicon bifold combo and ditched the dixie for a mangrove. Consider the mangrove osc as your modulation source. The tracking is near perfect.
I received mine yesterday and I am pairing it with a Rubicon and a Dixie II.
.
But recent comments here make me want to try one of my STOs instead of the Dixie II
They would be basically interchangeable as they are both 8 HP.
I almost cant believe how dense and close to the panels edges the circuit board is on the Bifold.
.
Has anyone had any problems with the Bifold yet?
.............................................................................................................................
mangrove huh I have never quite understood Whimsical Raps
And this description of Mangrove sounds fairly whimsical to me
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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by galanter2 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:28 pm

I have 2 Bifolds. No problems and they have almost identical response.

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by feelingthin » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:51 pm

Foghorn wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:18 am
feelingthin wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:52 am
ari ellis wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:22 pm
zerodivide wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:19 pm


Bifold on STO would be great, would love to hear how it compares to a DPO
Unfortunately, STO is exactly what came out of my rack to make space for bifold! But, if there are any specific DPO sounds you can link to, it would be a fun exercise for me to try getting versions of them from my intellijel complex osc (dixie+rubicon+bifold).
I also had a dixie rubicon bifold combo and ditched the dixie for a mangrove. Consider the mangrove osc as your modulation source. The tracking is near perfect.
I received mine yesterday and I am pairing it with a Rubicon and a Dixie II.
.
But recent comments here make me want to try one of my STOs instead of the Dixie II
They would be basically interchangeable as they are both 8 HP.
I almost cant believe how dense and close to the panels edges the circuit board is on the Bifold.
.
Has anyone had any problems with the Bifold yet?
.............................................................................................................................
mangrove huh I have never quite understood Whimsical Raps
And this description of Mangrove sounds fairly whimsical to me
Whimsical Raps wrote: "As the earth shakes under foot, a whistle blows on the wind."
The Dixie ii+ is good because the octave switch is helpful for tzfm work. Try the Dixie an octave lower and see how much better it sounds than at the same octave as the Rubicon.

The reason I mentioned Mangrove is that it has a couple functions that make it useful as a modulation source. One, the triangle out affects the Rubicon fm in a way that I prefer to the dixie sine/tri. Mostly because it can be modulated through barrel and air inputs. Second, when using the saw waveform, the formant control steps down in octave, fifth, maj 7, 2nd octave down(going off memory). That makes it useful for ring mod or fm. I get real cool tones using a fifth down. Try tuning your dixie to different intervals and see what happens with the tzfm on the rubicon. It can really open up new sounds. Not ground breaking, but I keep a zeroscope handy and a sheet of musical notes and their frequencies so I can tune to them quickly. Or do it by ear!

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by Funky40 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:32 pm

i like this sound ( majella implexus desktop synth).

would the bifold qualifie for this type of sounds ?


look please from min 0:28

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by Foghorn » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:32 pm

feelingthin wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:51 pm

The Dixie ii+ is good because the octave switch is helpful for tzfm work. Try the Dixie an octave lower and see how much better it sounds than at the same octave as the Rubicon.

The reason I mentioned Mangrove is that it has a couple functions that make it useful as a modulation source. One, the triangle out affects the Rubicon fm in a way that I prefer to the dixie sine/tri. Mostly because it can be modulated through barrel and air inputs. Second, when using the saw waveform, the formant control steps down in octave, fifth, maj 7, 2nd octave down(going off memory). That makes it useful for ring mod or fm. I get real cool tones using a fifth down. Try tuning your dixie to different intervals and see what happens with the tzfm on the rubicon. It can really open up new sounds. Not ground breaking, but I keep a zeroscope handy and a sheet of musical notes and their frequencies so I can tune to them quickly. Or do it by ear!
I never quite looked at mangrove closely before.
You are def right that it is a very deep VCO.
.
With just Dixies sine into TZFM, I am amazed how much change I can get with small changes in Dixie's frequency. (when not harmonically tuned)
I mean when running through Bifold.
Same CV into Rubicon's v/oct and a VPME-T43 Precision adder, plus a 4 part sequence into the adder then adder output into Dixie's v/oct.
IE... mixing sequence into main CV for just Dixie.
Awesome sequence of timbres.
Wow, small change in modulator frequency and its "clangorious".
Sometimes so smooth and sometimes it hurts.
Anyway, thanks.
.
PS I was just making a joke about Mannequins. They seem to go towards a little strange.
But it takes that strange type of genius to create something as deep as Mangrove.
I like it.
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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by intellijel » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:48 am

Here are some wild sounds from Bifold paired with IME modules:


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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by feelingthin » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:18 pm

Foghorn wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:32 pm
feelingthin wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:51 pm

The Dixie ii+ is good because the octave switch is helpful for tzfm work. Try the Dixie an octave lower and see how much better it sounds than at the same octave as the Rubicon.

The reason I mentioned Mangrove is that it has a couple functions that make it useful as a modulation source. One, the triangle out affects the Rubicon fm in a way that I prefer to the dixie sine/tri. Mostly because it can be modulated through barrel and air inputs. Second, when using the saw waveform, the formant control steps down in octave, fifth, maj 7, 2nd octave down(going off memory). That makes it useful for ring mod or fm. I get real cool tones using a fifth down. Try tuning your dixie to different intervals and see what happens with the tzfm on the rubicon. It can really open up new sounds. Not ground breaking, but I keep a zeroscope handy and a sheet of musical notes and their frequencies so I can tune to them quickly. Or do it by ear!
I never quite looked at mangrove closely before.
You are def right that it is a very deep VCO.
.
With just Dixies sine into TZFM, I am amazed how much change I can get with small changes in Dixie's frequency. (when not harmonically tuned)
I mean when running through Bifold.
Same CV into Rubicon's v/oct and a VPME-T43 Precision adder, plus a 4 part sequence into the adder then adder output into Dixie's v/oct.
IE... mixing sequence into main CV for just Dixie.
Awesome sequence of timbres.
Wow, small change in modulator frequency and its "clangorious".
Sometimes so smooth and sometimes it hurts.
Anyway, thanks.
.
PS I was just making a joke about Mannequins. They seem to go towards a little strange.
But it takes that strange type of genius to create something as deep as Mangrove.
I like it.
Cool! I like the idea of sending two different sequences. One to the Rubicon and different one to the modulating oscillator. Didn’t think of that. Makes me think I should buy Scales. Anyways, back to bifold!

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by Foghorn » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:45 am

Is my Bifold on Steroids?
.
Sounds more like it is on acid.
I guess this is what I was getting at before.
It is capable of some very nice and calm sounds.
Just before it goes into crazyfold, it sounds just a little warm, then a little wild, and then (see above)
.
.
Yeah, the neatest thing that Bifold has shown me, again, is modulating Rubicon with Dixie.
What a great pair.
Last edited by Foghorn on Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by drowld » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:09 pm

Funky40 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:32 pm
i like this sound ( majella implexus desktop synth).

would the bifold qualifie for this type of sounds ?


look please from min 0:28

Damn nice :)
I guess it can obviously it's a lot of wavefolding in this video. With the right oscillator/filters and a bifold you can obviously achieve thoses sounds
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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by brandonlogic » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:02 pm

some crossfading between two different oscillators/ pitches

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by Dragonaut » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:08 pm

zerodivide wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:19 pm


It's really just a preference thing of what sound you get, just like choosing an Oscillator. However in the Bifold's case you get 2 different flavors , a buchla-inspired one and a serge-one (plus a blend of the 2 even). Without even using it I can already guarantee it will be more interesting than Bastl's .
But... the Bastl has three flavors plus the overdrive with cross fading...

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by after_us » Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:37 pm

Just got a Bifold and comparing it to my Random*Source Serge Wave Multiplier.
The Bifold does not sound bad at all, when directly comparing them I prefer the classic sound of the middle section of the Serge though, which I cannot exactly reproduce with the Bifold. The Serge sounds a bit cleaner, more refined, and when on 100% fold it produces more high frequencies. In most patches the subtle difference will probably not really matter and the Bifold is only half the size and the XFADE might come in handy.

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by adg672 » Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:39 am

brandonlogic wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:02 pm
some crossfading between two different oscillators/ pitches
Watched a few bifold videos and this one tipped me over the edge, thanks @brandonlogic

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by Wavtekt » Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:55 am

Bifold under scope with sine wave ... very interesting.

Note that the attenuators for Fold P & Fold S is +5v only, u need a +10v envelope to push the wavefolder to the final stage. Also, it is rather uncommon that the fold knob can shift the harmonics further when turned full CW with +10v DC offset.

I think none of the video demo shows the Bifold's final stage.

Picture 1: Bifold's +5v stage - (some graphical error here, due to the trigger voltage level of the oscilloscope)
Picture 2: Bifold's final stage - Fold P's final stage is rather asymmetrical, meanwhile Fold S's final stage is more symmetrical.
Picture 3: Bifold's final stage with symmetry full CW - Fold P becomes a pulse wave, Fold S becomes a half-rectified-ish sine wave.

Legend:

Spectrogram
Green - Fold P
Magenta - Fold S

Oscilloscope
Orange - Fold P
Blue - Fold S
Attachments
Capture3.JPG
Capture.JPG
Capture2.JPG
Last edited by Wavtekt on Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:19 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by Wavtekt » Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:59 am

after_us wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:37 pm
Just got a Bifold and comparing it to my Random*Source Serge Wave Multiplier.
The Bifold does not sound bad at all, when directly comparing them I prefer the classic sound of the middle section of the Serge though, which I cannot exactly reproduce with the Bifold. The Serge sounds a bit cleaner, more refined, and when on 100% fold it produces more high frequencies. In most patches the subtle difference will probably not really matter and the Bifold is only half the size and the XFADE might come in handy.
Just FYI, I have fiddle with it for a while, you need +10 DC offset or envelope to fully push the wavefolder to the final stage, the attenuators is just +5v. Weird design choice from Intellijel, may be they want those attenuators to act as a fine tuner when nothing is plugged into the input? If you want to Bifold to go to its final stage, you need to turn the attenuator full CW + fold knob full CW to obtain +10v. I am pretty sure Bifold have more overtones, if you push it to its final stage. It definitely sound more gritter than Serge though.

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by intellijel » Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:10 pm

The "Fold" control is simply the CV for a linear VCA acting on your input signal that feeds the folding networks. So 0 is amplitude of zero, 5V is unity gain and 10V would be doubling your input signal. We have designed this module so that the range of 0-5V is the normal range we would expect to fold with. In this case "normal" means that a 10Vpp signal (e.g. sine wave straight from a Dixie) would be folded 6 times or very close to that. If your source signal is less than this, then it may require some extra boosting via the offsets but most Eurorack VCOs should be putting out 10Vpp.

As you increase the Fold control, you will see your source signal hit each breakpoint in the folder until it goes past the last one. At this point the two sides act a bit different but on the Buchla side you are simply continuing to amplify a signal to the point that it clips the rails and turns into a big, harsh square wave. That is not the final stage, it is beyond the final stage.

The buchla side also has a 1 pole low pas filter with a corner frequency of ~ 1kHz. This might seem really low but it makes a lot of sense when you think about what a folder is doing. If you started with 500Hz, every fold is doubling the frequency; so six folds would yield 500>1000>2000>4000>8000>16000>32000 (!) With a mild sloping filter you tame these super high frequencies and the fundamentals remain dominant. The serge side has a much higher cutoff in comparison and so it can give the impression of being brighter/buzzier but I have always found the Buchla folder to be more musically pleasing and useful.

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by adg672 » Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:24 am

Recently picked one up and must stay it’s immediately become my favourite euro wavefolder. Both sides sound great plus the extra features make it super useful in loads of patches and when not folding.

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Re: New intellijel wavefolder/crossfader: bifold

Post by everythingcontinues » Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:03 am

I'm pretty sure this'll do what I want based on peeping the manual, but I just want to be 100% sure before putting an order in, since I have a specific use-case I'm trying to solve for that would be the deciding factor in going with Bifold vs another wavefolder.

If I put one signal into IN P and another into IN S, and have one of the P or S switches flipped to FOLD OUT and the other to IN, then XFADE will act as the mix between my two signals, and both (including the non-folded signal--this is the really important bit) levels will be affected by the FOLD amount, with no output showing when fully CCW--correct? Let's assume I'm using an envelope / have the attenuator pots correctly set. Also--and I'm getting greedy here, could yet another dry signal be added (and level-controlled via FOLD) via the AUX input with the top switch flipped to AUX on the same side as the other dry signal?

Basically, with Odessa I want to process and fold the Fundamental output, mix that with one of the other outputs (not folded), and use the same envelope to fold the fundamental and VCA the mix of the signals and get one glorious, folded, enveloped output. I also often add another octave-offset osc into the party.

Seems like a potentially fantastic parallel-processing, folding, mixing, VCA all-in-one solution for a layered voice.

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