Define "Skiff Friendly" depth

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paults
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Define "Skiff Friendly" depth

Post by paults » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:18 pm

I am working on 2 new modules that will be non-parallel to the front panel but perpendicular. How deep can I go (that's what she said, etc)? 50mm? 75mm?

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oscillateur
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Post by oscillateur » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:20 pm

75mm definitely is not skiff-friendly.

50mm should be ok, though skiff-friendly often means about 30-40mm max depth.

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Post by ignatius » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:23 pm

thing to think about is the ribbon cables and power connectors both on the module and in the skiff.

those add to the cluster in the bottom of a case and even w/skiff friendly designs that stuff bunches up and makes it a cram fest to get things oriented in a way that allows everything to fit.

i think anything over 1 inch passed the face place is going to be close in a 2" deep boat/skiff depending on the bussboard/flying bus cable scenario and how the connector is oriented on the module.

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meatbeatz
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Post by meatbeatz » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:19 pm

Skiffs are generally around 50mm deep so 30-40mm deep (including IDC header/connector) would be a safe bet. 'Skiff-friendly' is a bit of a loose term as the available depth in a skiff depends on whether your using a busboard or flying cable.

Sooo.. do tell, what is it you are working on good sir?

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Post by clusterchord » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:25 pm

examples of skiff friendly is 2.5cm for some makenoise , and 2.5 - 3.8 for some intellijel stuff. plus connector.

personally i dont find it crucial to go to that extreme, tho it is nice for some performance oriente skiffs , that sit in front of a larger system. overall, from all the modules i have, i have most trouble with ones that go over 6cm; like the 266R (69mm) and Oakley/AM Synth stuff (8cm!!). these are too big even for HEK , Acidlab, and shallower ADDAC racks etc.

so, if you have to go perpendicular, if i may suggest, anything under 60ish still seems reasonable. especially if power connector is positioned in such a way that it doesn't waste extra depth.

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Post by paults » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:22 am

a) OK, I will shoot for 35mm maximum behind panel

b) an analog VCO thing and a CV thing

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Post by goiks » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:49 am

the first euro Skiffs were just over 40mm inside. they were intended for make noise touch-interactive modules. since then, in my opinion, much has been inappropriately made of fitting modules within that depth.

not every module needs to fit in a skiff-depth case. unless it's a performance-oriented module there's not always going to be an advantage to having it flat/in front. in practice, "skiffable" sometimes comes with the compromise of wasted faceplate space (in addition to the space that could be used for wiggling). as the maker of some of the first Skiffs I can tell you they were made as shallow as possible mostly for aesthetic preference, and i am disappointed every time when a new maker feels that they have to make their non-performance oriented modules fit within "skiff" depth, only to waste panel real estate. i'm not talking about arbitrarily cramming every panel and i am aware that parallel boards need to be a certain size for the circuit layout needed.

i might as well express my opinion on related matters and add that a performance-oriented module made to be played horizontally (especially those with buttons or pads) should ALMOST NEVER have jacks on the bottom. conversely, if it's not made to be played physically, does it really need to be in the front row/be under 40mm deep?

there are obviously other opinions out there and the state of eurorack reflects that. feel free to challenge my thinking, but i may not engage in further discussion on the matter here because i should be making cases (or doing a million other things). i rarely express such opinions to avoid worthless conflict and waste of time, but here it seems like since paults is genuinely asking for input it might be useful for him to consider in his own equation.

paul, specific to your question i think 60mm is a good limit on depth for a perpendicular board. that depth will fit in the newer generation of shallower (carry-on) euro cases available from many makers now, in most cases with room to spare for the power bus solution of choice.
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Post by goiks » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:51 am

of course, 35 is great too. :)
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Post by phono1337 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:27 am

lets also not forget there are various boats and many specs are not including the cable headers.

Id personally consider anything under 45mm (measured with the power cable connected) to be skiff friendly, max 50mm

ymmv

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Post by causticlogic » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:26 am

Every time I see a skiff with modules in it, I cringe. I always imagine a mess of flex cables mashed up against the bottom of the module, fracturing solder joints on electrolytic capacitors, headers stabbing away at flying bus boards, and other general mayhem...
In my mind, there is nothing friendly about skiffs.
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Post by JohnLRice » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:26 am

This case allows for exactly 2" of depth and all of these modules fit, some of them just barely.

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Post by flo » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:29 am

The deepest modules that fit my Spacecase Skiff is Addac stuff at 55mm...

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Post by meatbeatz » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:10 am

goiks wrote:paul, specific to your question i think 60mm is a good limit on depth for a perpendicular board. that depth will fit in the newer generation of shallower (carry-on) euro cases available from many makers now, in most cases with room to spare for the power bus solution of choice.
I agree, if the two modules in question are an osc and CV thingy, there's no real need for these to be mounted in a skiff. Like Goike (skiff pioneer!) said, skiffs are generally for performance modules. Otherwise 50-60mm is fine in most cases. That said, there's nothing wrong with a bit of airflow around the case, so as long the front panel isn't compromised, the shallower the better imo.

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Post by exper » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:25 am

Then again, Goike's aluminum boats (which I whole-heartedly reccomend btw) are a perfect balance between desktop/performance friendly and slightly deep enough in areas for perpendicular modules. I think the inner depth is 70mm or so.

I'm the opposite of causticlogic. When I had vertical Doepfer cases, I hated their monstrous size. I almost sawed off half of their depth because nothing I had in there required such depth. Any analog keyboard/drum machine/controller, etc is played at an ergonomic angle. So a vertical wall of modules is the exact opposite of that feel. IMO. :hihi:
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Post by paults » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:50 am

Thanks for the great feedback, it think 35-40mm is enough room for these designs.

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Post by pwranml » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:55 am

paults wrote:Thanks for the great feedback, it think 35-40mm is enough room for these designs.
I think that's perfect. Chances are if you have a skiff with a flying bus board you can just move stuff around so that the deeper modules are in the less messy areas. Also the perpendicular board usually means that the power connector is sticking out on the side which gives a few extra mm.

Any more details on the VCO? Really eager to hear about it!

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