Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Discussion of modular and standalone video generating/processing techniques and associated hardware.
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anomad
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by anomad »

Ras Thavas wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:51 pm I believe this was discussed elsewhere, but going from memory, ER had an existing supply of pots they had to use for Structure and due to their size/configuration the only way they could fit behind the panels was to be tilted off axis.

I'm fairly new to Structure and this offset is still mildly frustrating to me at times, but I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Sync wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:57 pm Here's a puzzle I have about the module-- all the pots seem to be centered around 9:00 rather than 12:00 like every other module I've ever seen. Anyone know what the thinking process was behind that?
. correct in that 9 o'clock is the mid-point. Per Rick's comment on the Structure Fb group:

"at the time the limitation here was the knobs, as typically you can order knobs with a rotation to match the orientation, but for these knobs, if I wanted that, I had to order 10,000 of them and this was the beginning of ET so I didn't have that kind of capital. I had to order what they offered.
These knobs are superior to any other small format knobs I had found, and I had probably 20-30 different small knobs I was testing. so, I decided to do something a little different to account for the packed space.
The way they seem normal to me is I just think of things in terms of 9 o'clock. This is more important on LEVIT8 which was my first module that shipped. At 9 o'clock the gain is 1:1 "

. if you look @ some of the other modules ET makes another concern was getting eight knobs to fit in standard eurorack height.

-james
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Sync
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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anomad wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:47 pm
. correct in that 9 o'clock is the mid-point. Per Rick's comment on the Structure Fb group:

"at the time the limitation here was the knobs, as typically you can order knobs with a rotation to match the orientation, but for these knobs, if I wanted that, I had to order 10,000 of them and this was the beginning of ET so I didn't have that kind of capital. I had to order what they offered.
These knobs are superior to any other small format knobs I had found, and I had probably 20-30 different small knobs I was testing. so, I decided to do something a little different to account for the packed space.
The way they seem normal to me is I just think of things in terms of 9 o'clock. This is more important on LEVIT8 which was my first module that shipped. At 9 o'clock the gain is 1:1 "

. if you look @ some of the other modules ET makes another concern was getting eight knobs to fit in standard eurorack height.

-james
So I guess that means they were keyed knobs, rather than press-on ones that can be installed with the pointer wherever you want it to be.

But I also would guess that means they could be replaced with allen-screw knobs and the pointer positioned as usual, though the panel silkscreen wouldn't match.
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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anomad wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:16 pm
studio460 wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 3:05 am Hmmm . . . I tried the above, and I think I loaded a NODE with VID, but in Structure's preview monitor all I ever see is a green screen where (presumably) the video input signal should appear. The output from Structure doesn't show the video source at all. The input select switch is in the down (CVBS) position. I tested the output of the white phono cable, and composite video is definitely coming out of it. Here's a photo of one set-up I tried:
. it should be showing the incoming video signal. try using just a VID node and run on of the video out to video in and change the HUE (via MACRO 2 ) - does the screen show feedback and slowly crawl off the screen? if not - contact us at https://erogenous-tones.com/about-us/ and we can start the process to get it sent to us so we can take a look.


-james
Thanks for your reply! Finally got around to trying this. Nope! No feedback on either CVBS-input (input-select switch is in proper position) using any VID mode when turning macro 2 knob—only hue changes. I will contact Erogenous Tones via their support channel. Thanks!
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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Sync wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:57 pm Here's a puzzle I have about the module-- all the pots seem to be centered around 9:00 rather than 12:00 like every other module I've ever seen. Anyone know what the thinking process was behind that?
All the Erogenous Tones modules are like that (Radar, VC8, etc.)
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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Is there an effect node that will simulate video-tape glitch, such as loss of tracking or vertical hold, tear and dropouts?
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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Sync wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:45 pm Is there an effect node that will simulate video-tape glitch, such as loss of tracking or vertical hold, tear and dropouts?
. check out 'blownOutScreen', 'glitchBox', 'hsyncBreak', or 'mpegArtifact' for similar effect

. otherwise, I would suggest something like a dirty mixer, BPMC Fluxus/Fluxus DUO, or Tachyons+ box to corrupt an analog signal going in to or out of Structure.

-james
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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anomad wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:52 pm
Sync wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:45 pm Is there an effect node that will simulate video-tape glitch, such as loss of tracking or vertical hold, tear and dropouts?
. check out 'blownOutScreen', 'glitchBox', 'hsyncBreak', or 'mpegArtifact' for similar effect

. otherwise, I would suggest something like a dirty mixer, BPMC Fluxus/Fluxus DUO, or Tachyons+ box to corrupt an analog signal going in to or out of Structure.

-james
The Tymkrs' GlitchCRT (a kind of dirty mixer) is both inexpensive and super-cool for getting exactly those kinds of effects. I saw a Tymkrs' demo which mixed PAL and NTSC sources, and it produced the "perfect" glitch-effect! (So of course, I immediately bought a cheap PAL-converter on Amazon.) Tachyons' stuff is excellent for this, but they're standalone boxes, not Eurorack. I only just got my BPMC Fluxus Duo and can't wait to start playing with it!

By the way, I contacted Erogenous Tones via their site's contact page and received a reply, I think, in about an hour and a half! My Structure is finally on its way back to the manufacturer and will hopefully return by the time I install my new 6Ux84hp wall-mount racks, purchased specifically to house all of my video stuff. Can't hardly wait!
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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Hmmm... The problem with the dirty mixer approach like in the GlitchCRT is it may not produce stable enough output video that can be fed into a recorder or into a device for further processing such as the Structure. It may work output to a CRT, but I wonder what happens to it -- such as fed into the video in on Structure, or into a video switch or mixer. While it may produce the look I'm after, something that simulates it without destabilizing the video might be more useful in a wider range of application. Also interesting to note that a couple of the main demo videos for the GlitchCRT don't show the straight recorded output video, but in one case it's projected over their equipment, and in another it's recorded via camera pointed at a CRT. That's a bad sign regarding its ability to produce stable enough output to feed into other stages of video processing equipment that's expecting a coherent video signal.
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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Sync wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:21 pm Also interesting to note that a couple of the main demo videos for the GlitchCRT don't show the straight recorded output video, but in one case it's projected over their equipment, and in another it's recorded via camera pointed at a CRT. That's a bad sign regarding its ability to produce stable enough output to feed into other stages of video processing equipment that's expecting a coherent video signal.
Yep. True glitch (where the composite signal is messed with) can be pretty unpredictable unless you are rescanning direct from a CRT.
Digital devices like TV's, TBC's, projectors and recorders all tend to react to it in very different ways. It can look great in the studio and not work when you get to the club.

I do own a couple of 'iffy' devices that produce poor quality signals. They aren't supposed to be glitch. They just have crappy quality output signals. I have found that Structure tends to cope pretty well with them. This is stuff that the LZX Visual Cortex can't get a reliable lock on.

I don't know if there would be any risk to the inputs of Structure if I fed it a true glitch signal that may be some distance ourt of spec. I'm guessing that the signal from a dirty mixer could be double the level that is expected.
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Sync wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:21 pm Hmmm... The problem with the dirty mixer approach like in the GlitchCRT is it may not produce stable enough output video that can be fed into a recorder or into a device for further processing such as the Structure. It may work output to a CRT, but I wonder what happens to it -- such as fed into the video in on Structure, or into a video switch or mixer . . .
Good point! I sent my Structure back for repair so I don't have it right now (returning next week—can't hardly wait!). My Structure wasn't seeing any external video=input, but apparently the issue was just that the CPU wasn't completely seated in its socket. Will try some of that out when I get it back. I also have a pretty good switcher—the Black Magic ATEM Mini Extreme.

Since I pulled my Structure, my video rack is in kind of disarray. It's all eventually going into four 19" 6U wall mount racks, but I don't have enough Tiptop HEKs for all four, just a single pair of Z-rails to make just one complete 84hp-row. But I'll definitely be doing more GlitchCRT experimenting as soon as I get everything back together!
Marizu wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:27 am . . . I do own a couple of 'iffy' devices that produce poor quality signals. They aren't supposed to be glitch. They just have crappy quality output signals. I have found that Structure tends to cope pretty well with them. This is stuff that the LZX Visual Cortex can't get a reliable lock on . . .
Well, that's good to hear! Thanks for that report!
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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Marizu wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:27 am I do own a couple of 'iffy' devices that produce poor quality signals. They aren't supposed to be glitch. They just have crappy quality output signals. I have found that Structure tends to cope pretty well with them. This is stuff that the LZX Visual Cortex can't get a reliable lock on.

I don't know if there would be any risk to the inputs of Structure if I fed it a true glitch signal that may be some distance ourt of spec. I'm guessing that the signal from a dirty mixer could be double the level that is expected.
I'm still kind of wondering what kind of simulated glitch effects could be done with scripts.

I'd think a 2D generator script could produce a "random noise" pattern, similar to an old analog TV tuned to a non-transmitting station. Assuming a script can fill the screen with random noise fast enough. But then a nice effect might be having it fade in and out between noise and a signal from another node (which could be external video in, or a generator, etc.). Making it look like a TV tuner is having a hard time bringing the channel in.

And then the question would be, could a script repaint the screen but with an offset in such a way as to simulate a loss of vertical hold (possibly inserting a phony vertical interval bar in between, and "rolling" as you'd have when VH is acting up). Not sure if a script can do that fast enough tho...

And of course, these sorts of effects might look like the signal is out of whack but they're not actually, so feeding them into other video devices would remain clean as far as the quality of the signal would be, unlike a true glitch that would mess up the signal to the point further processing might be problematic.
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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Unfortunately, I need another power cable for Structure. I just pulled this image from the internet. This cable has a lot more conductors than any I have. Anyone know if Perfect Circuit might have these in stock? Anyone know the cable's specs?

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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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studio460 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:03 pm Unfortunately, I need another power cable for Structure. I just pulled this image from the internet. This cable has a lot more conductors than any I have. Anyone know if Perfect Circuit might have these in stock? Anyone know the cable's specs?
Eurorack power cables come in 10 to 16 pin or 16 to 16 pin variations.
It's always best to use the correct type.
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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Marizu wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:46 am
studio460 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:03 pm Unfortunately, I need another power cable for Structure. I just pulled this image from the internet. This cable has a lot more conductors than any I have. Anyone know if Perfect Circuit might have these in stock? Anyone know the cable's specs?
Eurorack power cables come in 10 to 16 pin or 16 to 16 pin variations.
It's always best to use the correct type.
Thanks! So it appears Structure uses a 16-16 pin cable. Can anyone confirm? I assume all are standard straight-through wiring.
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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If it’s bigger than your other cables, then it’s 16 pin. There are only the 2 choices for Eurorack. You should be able to get one from any retailer that sells modules.
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by Karl_Joseph »

Structure incoming. Is a CVBS to VGA adapter cable all I need to plug into my old crappy Dell monitor?
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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Karl_Joseph wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:32 pm Structure incoming. Is a CVBS to VGA adapter cable all I need to plug into my old crappy Dell monitor?
. i have never had an RCA to VGA "cable" work.

. Structure outputs standard NTSC or PAL - so anything that can convert that to VGA should work, There are several $15-$20 RCA to VGA converters on Amazon that do a decent conversion.

-james
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anomad wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:15 pm
Karl_Joseph wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:32 pm Structure incoming. Is a CVBS to VGA adapter cable all I need to plug into my old crappy Dell monitor?
. i have never had an RCA to VGA "cable" work.

. Structure outputs standard NTSC or PAL - so anything that can convert that to VGA should work, There are several $15-$20 RCA to VGA converters on Amazon that do a decent conversion.

-james
That is what my research is telling me - get a converter. Thanks for confirming a simple cable will likely not work. I just got Structure today but I’m going on vacation all weekend so I won’t get to explore it until next week unfortunately.
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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I'm back!

Finally got my Structure back in the rack (work has been taking a toll in the last weeks). My thanks to Erogenous Tones for their prompt, courteous service (apparently just a loose IC in its socket). So happy to have this back! CVBS-input is working! Thanks, Zymos, for the cable confirmation—for a module this pricey I didn't want to get anything wrong (now I know there's only two cables in Eurorack!).

Also just received an LZX Sensory Translator to help drive the Structure—it's an extremely fun addition and I'm so glad I decided to grab one, especially since it's the only Expedition-series LZX module still in production. Its built-in mic is surprisingly useful. Will probably dedicate my Synthesis Technology E355 Morphing Dual-LFO to Structure as well (should've bought two!).

I'm far more expert in video composition than in music, so I have a lot of exciting projects planned. Very anxious to get some Windows fonts into Structure (e.g., Helvetica, Futura, LED, etc.), and get that integrated into my spaceship-graphics and sound-effects projects (though, this is an application likely better suited to something like Presenter Pro or Powerpoint). Someday, will perform some nice luma-key composites built with Structure-generators + live video into the ATEM switcher.

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Karl_Joseph wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:32 pm Structure incoming. Is a CVBS to VGA adapter cable all I need to plug into my old crappy Dell monitor?
You would need to buy a monitor which scans at video-rates. I have two for my Amiga 1200 (one, a 17" HP, I got as NOS). If you plan on someday acquiring an Amiga, you can find computer monitors which will display CVBS signals if you check for the right specs for minimum/maximum horizontal- and vertical-scan rates. I don't have them off the top of my head, but searching an Amiga forum will get you those. Otherwise, it would be easier to buy a CRT with composite video-inputs.

Surprisingly, many current-generation flatscreen LED TVs still include composite-inputs. This is how Im currently monitoring my Structure's output: Using a 50" Toshiba flatscreen TV (i.e., the one shown in the photos in my previous post).
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Live camera-input from Sony DSR450 into Structure's rasterizer, modulated by the LZX Sensory Translator:

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Unaltered external DSR450-video of Behringer 2600 control-panel LEDs.

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Structure image with RAST-effect.

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Structure infinity-tunnel of 2600's LEDs.
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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MIDI:

I'm having some difficulty attempting to map my Akai MIDImix controller. Are there any presets with a few CCs already premapped?

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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

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studio460 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:56 pm MIDI:
I'm having some difficulty attempting to map my Akai MIDImix controller. Are there any presets with a few CCs already premapped?
nope.

easiest thing to do is figure out what CC's your controller are sending and then just assign those CC's to a MOD in Structure.
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Thanks for replying! There it is! Clicked the mod matrix and pressed "change" and each channel responded to whatever control I moved on the Akai. Been reading the manual and watched the 3.4 update video—the parameters controls are quite deep!

How to map/assign MIDI-controller to Structure:

1. Go to mod-matrix to set the CC-mapping of S#1, S#2, etc.
2. Highlight/press encoder-button on desired CC, then "learn" by moving your sliders/pots.
2. Press params button to assign CC S#1, CC S#2, etc. to controls.

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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by Doublecoolbossman »

Is there any tips for transitioning between presets faster? Such as, does staying within the same node set help (this will be the first thing I test)? Or is the fade out and in time (which is pretty minimal already) always the same between all presets?
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