Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

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etckla
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Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by etckla »

Hi folks, I wish to wage sonic war on a mouse in my wall.

Google says a frequncy between 20 and 30 kHz should irritate them and get them to go away.

I have a eurorack system but no oscilloscope. I can use for example the A-143-9 to go well above hearing range, but I dont know how high to go.

Are there any tips on the easiest way to approximate the 20-30khz frequency range?

Edit: the doepfer page for this module says it can achieve "beyond 20 kHz with additional external CV". Anyone know how much extra cv I should push it?
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by Keltie »

Get to 10k then send CV. 1v/oct. Octave and a fifth should do it.
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budz
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by budz »

Will your speakers reproduce freqs that high? I have had success with ultrasonic repeller devices though.. they can work. It is hard to find a good one though in my experience.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by etckla »

Keltie wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:13 am Get to 10k then send CV. 1v/oct. Octave and a fifth should do it.
Thanks - but how do I know Ive got to 10khz?
budz wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:27 am Will your speakers reproduce freqs that high? I have had success with ultrasonic repeller devices though.. they can work. It is hard to find a good one though in my experience.
Good question - I just checked and I have genelec 8010s which say the go to 25khz - so should be ok for this?

yes I might fall back on commercial repellent if this doesnt work!
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by Keltie »

etckla wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:32 am
Keltie wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:13 am Get to 10k then send CV. 1v/oct. Octave and a fifth should do it.
Thanks - but how do I know Ive got to 10khz?
budz wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:27 am Will your speakers reproduce freqs that high? I have had success with ultrasonic repeller devices though.. they can work. It is hard to find a good one though in my experience.
Good question - I just checked and I have genelec 8010s which say the go to 25khz - so should be ok for this?

yes I might fall back on commercial repellent if this doesnt work!
Depending on what else you have available: tune up by ear to a DAW based oscillator ( logic test osc for example) or to a 10 k test tone from a mixing desk. Or the same principle, start at some known pitch ( such as a=440 from a synth) and go from there. If you have a way to reliably add 6 v of CV, you should be able to get up there ok from 440.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by KSS »

The best way to get rid of unwanted house rodents is to remove their water source. Food next.

Results with ultrasonics is *highly* variable and favor failure over success. Rodents adapt quickly to changes in their environment.

You might be unlucky enough to get a noise metal fan rat or mouse! :sb: But he'll still need a drink. :guinness:

Find the water -it doesn't take much, leaky pipes, condensation- and eliminate it. The vermin will go when there's no longer support for their primary life need. Unlike Disney versions, they prefer to live a small life with everything *really* close by. Once you've eliminated the 'indoor' -including crawl spaces and attics, basements- water sources, then focus on entry points. Use the feces shape and size to tell you which species you're dealing with. This will then set the lower limit for the size holes you need to eliminate. Wood, drywall and thin metal like aluminum foil are all easily chewed by rodents. Don't fool yourself with easily defeated by rodent impediments. If they can't get in, you won't have them inside. Cracked foundations around plumbing in utility rooms are one common entry point.

Work quickly. Two become *many* much faster than you think!

If you're not opposed to killing them, the currently offered 'poisons' are fully safe for people as they depend on vitamins we can process which rodents do not. Still need to be kept from pets who might ingest enough to make them sick, but the days of killing people with traditional 'rat poison' are over.

The live traps available are expensive but another good option. There *are* plenty of new mousetraps inthe world.

Our ididiot* neighbor just cleared the nice field where the feral cats used to hang out. Sharing recent experience in this reply. I too first thought of using sound for all the obvious reasons. *not a typo.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by Yes Powder »

I will be very impressed if this works. I have a couple of pointers, though:
-Make sure your speakers and amplifer are capable of reproducing these frequencies. Since you won't really be able to hear it, it'd be a good idea to know if it's even making sound.
-Add some modulation to the oscillator. Maybe a low-frequency ramp wave. The gradual pitch changing will make it harder for the rodent(s) to tune it out and adapt, raising chances of success.
-I feel like this should go without saying, but please don't do this if you're living in an apartment building with cats, dogs, or any other pets that will be able to hear it. Being separated by a floor may not be enough to block out the (I'm assuming very loud) sound you're generating, which can cause your neighbors' pets undue stress or even long-term damage.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by etckla »

Thanks all for the audio and general rodent advice

@yespowder
Yes was wiggling it with a chaotic oscillator, though it occurred to me that a random source could be more annoying 😂

Good call with caring about the other animals. I don't want to scare away or stress out the neighbours cats...
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by Dave Peck »

Even if your speakers are capable of reproducing a 25kHz sine wave, doing this for an extended period of time at any decent volume is likely to burn up your tweeters. They are not designed to do this. Reproducing this type of signal requires special transducers that are specifically intended for this type of job.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by Blairio »

Younger humans (babies / infants) have excellent high frequency hearing. Even teenagers have a significantly enhanced ability to detect high frequencies then adults. That's why some city centres have high frequency sound projection systems deployed where kids habitually hang out and cause a nuisance. The higher frequency bursts give the teenagers headaches. My daughter (late 20's, Excellent hearing) finds these systems by accident and is not best pleased to end up with a splitting headache.

Perhaps the best solution to a persistent mouse is patience. Mice don't live that long.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by KSS »

A mouse does not live long. but *mice* most assuredly do!
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by Peake »

I know a mouse, and he hasn't got a house
I don't know why I call him Gerald
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse
This place is exactly what I thought it to be.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by J3RK »

I've heard, (so not sure about the effectiveness) that LOW frequencies actually bother them the most. Like loud, low frequency pulsing sounds, sub-sonic. Like I said, not sure if it really works, but I've heard more about that than the higher frequencies.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

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Thinking that a specified product like this must surely exist, I looked up "Mouse Isolation Kit" and found this page. Of which I have no idea what it is but love immediately as a kind of Philip K Dick world portal: https://www.akadeum.com/product/mouse-b ... ation-kit/

Akadeum’s Mouse B Cell Isolation Kit delivers a highly enriched population of healthy, viable B cells using a protocol that is fast, easy, and exceptionally gentle on delicate immune cells.

This kit is designed to process 10 samples, up to 100 million cells per sample
  • Fast & easy workflow effectively enriches Mouse B cells in 30 minutes start to finish
  • No magnet, no column, no harsh chemicals
  • Microbubble enrichment maintains cell health and physiology

Mouse B Cell Isolation Kit!


Image

I have no idea what this is!

Mouse B Cell Isolation Kit!
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by EPTC »

Sorry, have to also mention this. How wonderful how identical these two videos are on Ratt Repellant:



then, a year later, it really looks like Ratt has had its effect on this guy:

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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by waveglider »

Any HF will get attenuated by the walls so the signal will never get inside behind the wall. Stop now and do something more productive with your life. Seriously.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by MoS-squared »

A real world example…
A close friend, Burton LeGeyt, is a master luthier and uses an old technique of ‘mapping’ the soundboard of the guitars he makes with a pure tone generator to fine tune how the sound moves. Whenever he does this the mice in his building become seemingly intoxicated and come out of the walls and hang out in the room with him! They are totally docile and don’t appear to be happy or otherwise about it, but merely in a trance. It takes about a minute after he turns the sound off for them to snap out of it, at which time they are like “what the hell am i doing out in the open” and run away. It’s been going on for a decade now.
It’s a very low, very loud sound for which he wears hearing protection. I’ll try to reach his brother, who made it for him, and get the exact frequency for the record.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by commodorejohn »

Hahaha that's wild.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by KSS »

commodorejohn wrote:Hahaha that's wild.
Sounds more like domesticated to me.

Dude, Burton's almost to the sound check. Probably happen tonight. Who's going? <--Yes, I've watched too much Disney and read too much Beatrix Potter.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

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MoS-squared wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:39 am A real world example…
A close friend, Burton LeGeyt, is a master luthier and uses an old technique of ‘mapping’ the soundboard of the guitars he makes with a pure tone generator to fine tune how the sound moves. Whenever he does this the mice in his building become seemingly intoxicated and come out of the walls and hang out in the room with him! They are totally docile and don’t appear to be happy or otherwise about it, but merely in a trance. It takes about a minute after he turns the sound off for them to snap out of it, at which time they are like “what the hell am i doing out in the open” and run away. It’s been going on for a decade now.
It’s a very low, very loud sound for which he wears hearing protection. I’ll try to reach his brother, who made it for him, and get the exact frequency for the record.
Interesting, and the polar opposite of Ultrasound. Infrasound is very low frequency - 30hz and lower - which can affect humans (and also mice, it seems) in a number of ways: visual distortion, a sense of free floating anxiety, epiphany, dread. It all depends on the frequency of the sound, and what part the human physiology has its resonant frequency closest to the pitch of the sound source. Attempts have been made to weaponise it, and it is a pretty solid candidate for 'sick building' syndrome. For instance tower blocks positioned close together in a windy location, so that the turbulence has a low frequency that resonates with the buildings. Or even buildings where lifts vibrate within their lift shafts.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by Whatisvalis »

I love that your first thought is to brown note them out of the walls.

I should really get a cat - the fuckers in my place love to use the basement toilet and I'm constantly evicting them. Plus mouse nest smell is the worst, right up there with dead mouse in the walls during summer.

Get a Havaheart and take them on a road trip at least 1 mile from your house - if you're the murderous sort something quick and efficient. Keep your kitchen clean and food in sealed containers - if you have a bird feeder then that's a tough call - I like my birds, so it's a balancing act.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by thelowerrhythm »

Get night vision goggles and a compound bow. Put out a piece of gorgonzola and go Rambo on its ass.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by ProggyBoog »

EPTC wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:54 pm Thinking that a specified product like this must surely exist, I looked up "Mouse Isolation Kit" and found this page. Of which I have no idea what it is but love immediately as a kind of Philip K Dick world portal: https://www.akadeum.com/product/mouse-b ... ation-kit/

Akadeum’s Mouse B Cell Isolation Kit delivers a highly enriched population of healthy, viable B cells using a protocol that is fast, easy, and exceptionally gentle on delicate immune cells.

This kit is designed to process 10 samples, up to 100 million cells per sample
My daughter is going to college in the fall to study Genetics. She will know these kits very well.
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Re: Tips for dialling in ultrasonic frequencies for repelling rodents

Post by ProggyBoog »

Blairio wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:20 am
Interesting, and the polar opposite of Ultrasound. Infrasound is very low frequency - 30hz and lower - which can affect humans (and also mice, it seems) in a number of ways: visual distortion, a sense of free floating anxiety, epiphany, dread. It all depends on the frequency of the sound, and what part the human physiology has its resonant frequency closest to the pitch of the sound source. Attempts have been made to weaponise it, and it is a pretty solid candidate for 'sick building' syndrome. For instance tower blocks positioned close together in a windy location, so that the turbulence has a low frequency that resonates with the buildings. Or even buildings where lifts vibrate within their lift shafts.
This is also a frequent root cause of people believing a place is haunted. Something generating infrasound-level noises.
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