Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

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waldenpotato
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Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by waldenpotato » Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:27 pm

Can the Oakley 5U modules be used alongside eurorack modules - Oakley or other brands? I know that the power supplies would be different, but I’m not familiar enough with the 5U standard to say if they’re compatible.

I like some of the old designs and being able to build with through-hole components.


Thanks!

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by waldenpotato » Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:30 pm

I think I've answered my own question. I think that it is *ok* to mix the two formats as long as their "signals" are in the same standard. For example, if the audio signals are both 10V peak-to-peak, then things are okay. Another example would be gate signals - if both handle 5V gate signals then everything is okay.

I know this question is probably more appropriate in another sub-forum but I ask it here because I'm mostly interested in the Oakley 5U modules.

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by Synthbuilder » Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:38 am

Aside from the power supply differences all my modules whether they are 5U or Euro are compatible with each other.

There is the potential (pardon the pun) that a 5U module powered from +/-15V may cause issues to a less robustly designed eurorack module running from +/-12V. That is, a 5U module may put out a signal (CV or audio) that exceeds 12V and this may cause a problem to some eurorack modules. However, most 5U modules feature some sort of current limiting resistor in series with the output which should prevent any serious issues.

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by ratchet » Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:04 am

I have a 5U and a Eurorack case next to each other and patch between them. Each case operates on its own power supply.

You may find that some attenuation is required depending on the modules but that isn't unusual even within the same standard.

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by waldenpotato » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:01 am

I just thought of another question related to this:

If I have the 5U modules in a separate case than the eurorack modules, can I patch between them without any issues? They will have different power supplies. Looking at the Krisp1 power supply products and the Oakley power supply I see a place for banana plugs that allow you to share grounding between cases. Is this necessary and is it possible to interface the grounding like this with some eurorack power supply that doesn't offer a grounding plug like this.

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by Synthbuilder » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:12 pm

waldenpotato wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:01 am
If I have the 5U modules in a separate case than the eurorack modules, can I patch between them without any issues? They will have different power supplies.
This shouldn't be a problem. In fact I do it as I have a small 5U and Eurorack system and regularly patch between them.
Is this necessary and is it possible to interface the grounding like this with some eurorack power supply that doesn't offer a grounding plug like this.
The moment you make the connection between one system and another with a standard patch cable you will tie the 0Vs of the two systems together. It is best that this 0V connection is as low a resistance as possible to reduce any unwanted crosstalk between modules and signals. The more patch connections you make the stronger this 0V connection will be and for most people they won't have a problem. However, in some cases it is preferable to tie the 0Vs together more strongly and this can be done with an extra dedicated 0V connection made with a much thicker cable. This is what the banana sockets allow. Some systems use even bigger connectors for even better performance. But again, not everyone needs it.

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by Purveyor2 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:13 pm

I’m having issues patching between an MOTM case and my Oakley case. Different power supplies, both just running +/-15v. The Oakley stuff doesn’t respond if patched from the other case and the oscillators stop making noise (or my multimix does). Any ideas to remedy?

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:28 pm

Purveyor2 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:13 pm
I’m having issues patching between an MOTM case and my Oakley case. Different power supplies, both just running +/-15v. The Oakley stuff doesn’t respond if patched from the other case and the oscillators stop making noise (or my multimix does). Any ideas to remedy?
this is pretty much almost impossible unless one of your patch cables has a broken shield. do you have plastic jacks on any modules? are both cases mains earth referenced all the way to the audio jack shield where you patch the cable? you can get out a multimeter and test the DC and AC voltage potential between shields on the MOTM case and shields on the Oakley case. If you get 0v AC and 0v DC then you can move on to test DC resistance between the jack shields of the two systems. you should get less than 10 Ohms between systems if they are both mains earthed and plugged into the same building and the building is wired correctly. if you still have problems, check for a broken patch cable. you may have a bad patch cable that works without the shield of the cable connected at both ends if you stay within one of those systems only. patching between systems highlights the hidden problem that you have a bad patch cable.
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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by Synthbuilder » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:57 am

Purveyor2 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:13 pm
I’m having issues patching between an MOTM case and my Oakley case. Different power supplies, both just running +/-15v.
If both cases are 5U, is the Oakley one built as an MU format or MOTM? If the former make sure you've read this:

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=223392

If the Oakley one has been built with an Oakley Dizzy, make sure that pin 3 of the power headers are connected to the power supply's 0V. That is, you should have four wires going back to your power supply, so both 0V connections from the Dizzy go back to the PSU's 0V terminal(s).

EYG's suggestion of a dodgy patch lead with a missing screen connector is also worth looking into.

Tony

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by Purveyor2 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:47 pm

Cables made at home, squareplug with Mogami. Checked a few, the insulators are all in place. Oakley case is MOTM format - Oakley power with dizzy, PA-30 line lump. I checked the 0v connections and they are proper. I can take something from the Oakley case to the MOTM case without problem but not the other way. Now the MOTM case has analogcraftsman power which comes from a dc line lump. I think I’ll look there, I recall doing some work to add a second bus board a while back...

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by Synthbuilder » Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:14 am

Purveyor2 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:47 pm
I think I’ll look there, I recall doing some work to add a second bus board a while back...
Please do let us know what you find. Because I am completely lost as to why it should work one way but not the other.

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by Purveyor2 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:56 am

Super weird. I’m just going to build Oakley power for the synth tech case, not crazy about DC adapter going straight to the busboard with the current supply. I’ll drop you an email shortly.

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by Purveyor2 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:16 pm

New Oakley power in 2nd case. Both cases using dizzy boards with 2 grounds, before I had MOTM bus boards. Also I hadn’t soldered the link on my multimix sock 8, and mix 3 out didn’t work. Oddly it seems that fixing the multimix fixed the inter-case grounding issue.

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by Synthbuilder » Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:05 am

Purveyor2 wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:16 pm
Oddly it seems that fixing the multimix fixed the inter-case grounding issue.
So it was doing the same weird thing with the new power supply, and only got fixed when the pot behaviour link on the Multimix was fitted? That is indeed very odd as those links have no effect on grounding at all.

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by Purveyor2 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:01 am

Not the pot behavior links, the input nrmalled to ground link on the socket board. Now I admit I was working in a frenzy yesterday. Many hours addressing issues in both cases, repairing my monomachine, preparing & installing samples into new prophet x. So after some rest, the chronology was: Oakley psu install using MOTM boards (still a problem), harvested some parts and built dizzy, drill and mount dizzy, fix address multimix output. Once completed with all that I remembered to test the patching thing and problem solved. Of course I didn’t test it after each intervention...
So installing dizzy in one case and fixing multimix in the other case and inter case patching issue solved.

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Re: Can I mix 5U modules with eurorack modules?

Post by Synthbuilder » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:10 pm

Purveyor2 wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:01 am
Not the pot behavior links, the input normalled to ground link on the socket board. Now I admit I was working in a frenzy yesterday.
OK, I understand now. Fitting that link wouldn't have fixed any problems with the grounding of the modular, so I guess it must have been the new power distribution in the other case that sorted it.

Glad it you got it fixed though. :tu:

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