Es 9 input gain

Discussion and support for Expert Sleepers' Silent Way software and hardware.

Moderators: Kent, os

14790532157
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:30 pm

Es 9 input gain

Post by 14790532157 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:39 pm

Hey there. New here. New to expert sleepers. New to the es 9. I'm wondering how i control the gain of audio going into the es 9? The signal is not distorting audibly, but it is clipping in Ableton. I am not 100% on using the configuration tool so if it's in there i definitely am missing it. Do i just need to adjust the gain before the signal is sent to the es 9? Just to make sure I'm making this clear, on my focusrite interface there are attenuators for each input, I'm wondering if there is a control somewhere for that. Again this might be a dumb question. I'm thankful for any help.

mr_karlos
Common Wiggler
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:57 am
Location: Europe

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by mr_karlos » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:40 pm

You need to adjust the gain before the signal enters the ES-9. There isn't a clipping indicator to help you with this either. The default config sends the inputs 1 to 14 directly to the USB interface.

It is only possible to adjust the gain on the outputs

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 15331
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by os » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:19 am

What are you feeding into the ES-9 that’s clipping? It can handle +/-10V which is more than enough for anything in Eurorack.

14790532157
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by 14790532157 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:02 am

Just an oscillator straight out of a vca. Once i turned it down on the vca everything was fine. And again it did not clip audibly, it was just clipping on the pre fade monitor in ableton. So i was just curious if i needed to attenuate the signal prior to entering the es 9. It was not a major problem at all. This thing works great, i just wanted to be sure i wasn't going to somehow break it. Thank you both for replying. I really appreciate it.

User avatar
reinert
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:32 pm
Location: Sysney

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by reinert » Sun May 03, 2020 4:20 am

os wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:19 am
What are you feeding into the ES-9 that’s clipping? It can handle +/-10V which is more than enough for anything in Eurorack.
I'm having a similar problem using is with my 4MS SMR. Before using it in Ableton I used the config tool to route my inputs directly to Main L+R and it worked like a charm. I knew eurorack has quite hot output level, which is why I purchased the ES-9. When I encountered the problem in Ableton, my first assumption was that there must be something wrong in the DAW because A- the module was designed to handle hotter signals and B- I have used the module with the 4MS before, with the sliders all the way up and resonance also full. Using Ableton I cant move the sliders three notches and resonance past 9 O'clock without it clipping in the DAW. ( I'm also just starting to put my studio setup together so, I started out using the 4MS as a test)

I was wondering if there is room in your design to assign the rotary knob to different things? I find it much more useful to have it on the main outs instead of the headphones. But it will also be very handy to be able to toggle between all the input channels and use it to attenuate the signal before hitting the DAW. For smaller systems using a mixer is a big sacrifice and for larger systems saving 14 utility modules is a big win.

Thank you for the great module and lending your ear :tu:

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 15331
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by os » Sun May 03, 2020 4:42 am

Do all the inputs behave the same? I wonder if you simply have a faulty input. There should be no problem with inputs levels from any Eurorack module.

If you have an oScope or Mordax data or similar you could check the levels.

The knob is hardwired into the headphone path.

ForAiur
Common Wiggler
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:21 am
Location: Germany

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by ForAiur » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:37 am

os wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:42 am
The knob is hardwired into the headphone path.
damn. Had the same wish / problem. You write in the manual that the push ability of the knob can be used for things in the future. How can it do that if it is only connected to the headphone out?

User avatar
dropthedyle
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 271
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:40 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by dropthedyle » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:39 am

I have the same "problem" with mine, ableton in red with a lot of modules of my setup.

OHEXOH
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:32 pm
Location: Portland
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by OHEXOH » Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:16 pm

Same here - a number of my modules will clip the ES-9 inputs. I'm hoping something can be done here to avoid the need to use attenuators - prior to entering the ES-9.
Gear for sale (Reverb): https://bit.ly/2Sb90oc

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 15331
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by os » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:58 am

Please let me know what these modules are. I would be interested to get hold of a selection for testing.

User avatar
dropthedyle
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 271
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:40 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by dropthedyle » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:05 am

os wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:58 am
Please let me know what these modules are. I would be interested to get hold of a selection for testing.
i will have a check but as far as i remember (i'm not in front of my modular) : bastl dark matter, addac triple bandpass filter, schlappi 100 grit, harvestman tyme sefari.

User avatar
soundsculptor
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by soundsculptor » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:28 am

add makenoise morphagene to the list. I have a drum loop recorded, when modulating varispeed input on es-9 is clipping.
it would be really really nice to have more headroom, perhaps pads on the inputs. I am running out of attenuators to use before the ES-9 inputs...
don´t critisize it - equalize it

ambent_gsa
1-Post Wiggler
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:27 pm

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by ambent_gsa » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:14 pm

same "issue" here with ALM Dinky's Taiko, Nonlinear Circuits CEM3340, and Ripples mk2. Don't think I've encountered it with Plaits or Morphagene? Never really considered it an issue until I saw this thread, though, just used a VCA or a channel of Maths to mellow it out. Also in Ableton. Agree that a bit of headroom would be nice, though.

User avatar
soundsculptor
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by soundsculptor » Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:45 pm

It would be so great to have control over input gain on the ES-9. I have a patch where I am using all 8 resonating outputs of Joranalogue Filter 8 as audio sources into my ES-9, with some modulation, and I have to attenuate every single one of them to not clip.

Is there hope? I really hope there is a way :)
don´t critisize it - equalize it

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 15331
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by os » Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:37 am

I still find this very surprising.

Quick sanity check - put an ES-9 output into an ES-9 input. Full scale on both should be about the same. Generate a signal in the DAW and record it back. Do the levels match?

User avatar
soundsculptor
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by soundsculptor » Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:35 pm

os wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:37 am
I still find this very surprising.

Quick sanity check - put an ES-9 output into an ES-9 input. Full scale on both should be about the same. Generate a signal in the DAW and record it back. Do the levels match?
I have tested using Ableton Live and the built in Test Tone Generator in the Preferences. Sending out a sine and bringing it back into an input on the ES-9 gives almost the same result. Typically I lose around 0.05dB on the inputs (sending out 0dB would bring back -0.05dB), with certain I/O combos resulting in the perfect 0dB.

Using the Joranalogue Generate 3 - full output, all pots on full ("default config" as per manual) I get a peak - looking at waveform statistics in iZotope RX it tells me Sample Peak Level -0,04dB, True Peak level +0.03dB.
This with Input DC blocking on in the ES-9 prefs.
Same with a Filter 8 output, with modulation, I am getting occasional spikes into the red.

Let me know if you need further testing from my side.

The way I understand it, levels so hot make sense when CV is used.
With audio, more headroom would be great.

A different question - when I turn off DC input blocking, with no cables connected, i get a signal between -53 and -44dB, depending on input. Is this normal operation?
don´t critisize it - equalize it

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 15331
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by os » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:08 am

Yes, those are the DC offsets which the blockers remove.

User avatar
soundsculptor
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by soundsculptor » Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:55 pm

os wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:37 am
I still find this very surprising.
What do you think about it, can you reproduce it, will we possibly see a firmware update to address this (if that´s even possible), or are we stuck with using attenuators before the input?
don´t critisize it - equalize it

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 15331
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by os » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:13 am

It certainly can't be changed in firmware.

armas_hki
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:05 pm

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by armas_hki » Mon May 03, 2021 1:11 pm

Hi all, just to continue in this thread that I too have my WMD Crater input clipping when directly monitoring in Ableton. This is a bit strange as when I used the original fw 1.1.1 I did not experience that as it was below 0dB. Now after testing the beta fw 1.2.0 it is hitting slightly over the 0 db.

Just double checking is this normal behavior and it does affect the sound quality by distorting it? I did the sanity check above and got slight difference between the output and input (input was 0.1 lower or something).

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 15331
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by os » Mon May 03, 2021 1:26 pm

I'm surprised if 1.2.0 is clipping when 1.1.1 isn't, but it's possible. There's a lot more going on in the mixer now. This is why we beta test!

armas_hki
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:05 pm

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by armas_hki » Mon May 03, 2021 1:53 pm

Totally undestand Os, no worries. If there is a possibility for feature request on this matter, input gain control would be totally awesome as this would remove the need to sacrifice additional VCAs for this (which I do not have actually that many..)

User avatar
msghmr
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:23 pm

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by msghmr » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:14 pm

os wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:26 pm
I'm surprised if 1.2.0 is clipping when 1.1.1 isn't, but it's possible. There's a lot more going on in the mixer now. This is why we beta test!
I just had an issue when upgrading firmware. After upgrading to 1.2.0, input 2 started clipping hard as if gain were cranked way up. No other input did it. The settings showed no gain applied. I reset to defaults, saved, boom no more gain issue. Looked like a bug to me

User avatar
Jon MacheeeN Boi
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:49 am
Location: Sheffield UK
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by Jon MacheeeN Boi » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:56 pm

Out of nowhere, my ES-9 has started doing this also. Every module I send audio from is being clipped / distorted on every input, but the signal is checked in an o'tool+ and is nowhere near 10v. It is running into Live 10 and currently v1.1.0 firmware. Is there a troubleshoot anywhere or way to rectify this? Many thanks.
A newb with the itch and a bit of gear.

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 15331
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Es 9 input gain

Post by os » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:05 am

All 14 inputs are doing this? That makes a hardware issue unlikely. What do the waveforms look like? Simply clipped?

Did you add anything else to your case recently?

Post Reply

Return to “Expert Sleepers”