Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

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BailyDread
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Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by BailyDread »

Hello friends,

Lately I've found myself getting more and more frustrated with Logic. It's crashing frequently, the delay compensation seems to get all wonky especially when I use nested busses... it's just started to feel like more of a headache than it's worth.

I'm considering moving to Reaper because I've heard it's more stable and reliable. Has anyone here done that? Any guidance? Must admit, seeing set-up videos that are 30 minute long+ (for a "part 1", no less), is rather intimidating.

Thank you
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by license »

I haven't used Logic but I've been a loyal Reaper user for 15+ years. You can certainly go very deep with customizations, but it works beautifully out of the box. It has a lot going for it.

I'm not sure why the setup is being presented as so convoluted. Do you have a use case that requires special setup?
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by BailyDread »

license wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:23 pm I haven't used Logic but I've been a loyal Reaper user for 15+ years. You can certainly go very deep with customizations, but it works beautifully out of the box. It has a lot going for it.

I'm not sure why the setup is being presented as so convoluted. Do you have a use case that requires special setup?
Nope I don't, admittedly that was just when I searched "switching from logic to reaper"... that was what came up. Maybe I'm just seeing content from people who like to talk :lol:

My objective with my DAW lately has been banging out rap beats using samples I've made on my modular to generate some income, so I'll mostly be using it to work with MIDI soft synths, samples and stuff like that.

I've heard good things about a lot of the add-ons and stuff too, for example "chord gun" or whatever it's called. I guess I'll just try to dive in :coffee-machine:
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by ignatius »

download it and check it out. you can evaluate it forever essentially but once you're convinced it's $69 or whatever.

also, there's many great themes for it that make it look great. i think i downloaded the one i like from the forum. been a while though. have been using other hosts lately so can't comment on reaper other to say it's quite flexible, does a lot, isn't going to be everything to everyone but is worth investigating.
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by wuff_miggler »

reapers default state is a bit howsitgoing in the "ease of use" department.
its menus driven, all options in your face style is a UI shit-show imo.

it can be modified/added on and so on to get what you like.

i am at the point where i'd like to do so, as I use it regularly as a straight up hard ware recorder.

pitch bending audio tracks with automation anyone? hell yeah :)
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by ihav2p »

It's not easy to switch, especially for midi software synths. I tried and went back having wasted a lot of time programming my own scripts. Buying a new computer to get rid of logic crashes is the better option, although it's an annoying truth.
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by license »

Yeah, it's ugly as hell, lol, and definitely a bit clunky. I pretty much just use it as a hardware recorder, too, honestly. For that it's super fast and efficient - starts up quick and gets out of the way.
wuff_miggler wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:26 am pitch bending audio tracks with automation anyone? hell yeah :)
Is that a thing??
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by pat »

I like reaper. I think, in general, it’s best to use what you know best as far as daws though. I learned on pro tools, use logic at a couple places I work, but landed on reaper as my go-to for multi tracking live shows and for putzing around on home recordings.
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by johny_gtr »

I moved from Ableton to Reaper but tried Logic too.

1) Reaper looks like a product from early 00x in its UI/UX. In some cases, I like this modesty, in some - I don't. For example, midi notes editing is a nightmare for eyes. I don't know it looks like midi editing in Ableton but it's not. I have 0 crashes with Reaper in one month. In comparison, Logic UI is more friendly but some things like naming virtual drummers I don't find suitable for the product for adults. Switching recording tracks and how to monitor them was a nightmare for me so I abandoned it. For logic price it's easier to buy Reaper plus some plugins and virtual instruments on a sale.

2) Reaper UX is not so suitable for touchpad (of course on Macbooks, because all touchpads on win based laptops were awkward). All audio edits, faders, scissors editing are pain here. Ableton truly wins in this but maybe I'm familiar with this product.

Reaper is the simplest thing to record something. You don't need to spend a lot of time to understand how to record several stereo/mono/multi-channel tracks. It's intuitive. It was not the same in Ableton and totally harder in Logic.

3) Reaper doesn't have Ableton shitty option that I didn't know how to turn off. It's auto-quantization of recorded audio. I even don't remember this function but after every record I needed to go in audio clip and turn this off.
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by wuff_miggler »

license wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:05 am Yeah, it's ugly as hell, lol, and definitely a bit clunky. I pretty much just use it as a hardware recorder, too, honestly. For that it's super fast and efficient - starts up quick and gets out of the way.
wuff_miggler wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:26 am pitch bending audio tracks with automation anyone? hell yeah :)
Is that a thing??
it is now - yes! With settings to lock automation envelopes to semi tones, watch this vid:
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by wuff_miggler »

johny_gtr wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:52 am I moved from Ableton to Reaper but tried Logic too.

1)I don't know it looks like midi editing in Ableton

2)Reaper is the simplest thing to record something. You don't need to spend a lot of time to understand how to record several stereo/mono/multi-channel tracks. It's intuitive. It was not the same in Ableton and totally harder in Logic.
i changed your numbering for the purposes of adding

1) Ableton midi editing is really average...not a strength. FL's piano roll is the most advanced around (even ableton diehards are happy to admit this :P )

2)this...i use it for vinyl ripping. the time from setting a folder for recorded audio, to setting inputs, i'm done in 10-15 seconds to setup. And its audio editing, batch file naming (this is a HUGE HUGE power tool). I specifically think reaper is a great daw for starting hardware only projects...moving into another DAW for embellishment.
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by license »

wuff_miggler wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:35 pm
license wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:05 am Yeah, it's ugly as hell, lol, and definitely a bit clunky. I pretty much just use it as a hardware recorder, too, honestly. For that it's super fast and efficient - starts up quick and gets out of the way.
wuff_miggler wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:26 am pitch bending audio tracks with automation anyone? hell yeah :)
Is that a thing??
it is now - yes! With settings to lock automation envelopes to semi tones, watch this vid:
Excellent! Now I can turn my folder full of drones into basslines/pads.
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by wuff_miggler »

in logic's defence (i've never used it) but it has some really fucking awesome VSTs:

the physical modelling one
the sample banks (with a wide range of banks to buy as add ons)

and its also adecent choice for scoring
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by Happyanimal »

Depends on what you’re using it for.

All audio record/mixing? Or heavy on the midi side?

By the way, it’s conversation like this that remind me why I moved away from DAW (a long time before the whole DAWless jammin bullshit). Only using as a glorified tape recorder at this point.
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by BailyDread »

Happyanimal wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:58 pm Depends on what you’re using it for.

All audio record/mixing? Or heavy on the midi side?

By the way, it’s conversation like this that remind me why I moved away from DAW (a long time before the whole DAWless jammin bullshit). Only using as a glorified tape recorder at this point.
With my modular stuff that's how I use DAWs, but I'm making some rap beats to sell. So mostly midi stuff, because I find it easier to make commercial-sounding stuff that way, and of course the recall. The most my modular will come into things will be using it as a source of sounds and loops to sample.

I'm working out a template in Reaper and so far so good.

My gripe with logic is that it makes me want to throw my computer through the window. There's just all this presumptuous shit baked in that makes for a prescriptive user experience. "Oh, it doesn't work like that, you gotta do it THIS way." For example the playhead not locking to the grid properly, spontaneously, halfway through a project. yes, I googled all the different settings and stuff to try to get it to stop... but nope, it just decided to be difficult and start sticking the playhead +4 beats ahead of where I wanted it, whenever I tried to click. and I couldn't get it to stop doing it no matter the settings. And then when I looked it up I saw some shit about "logic's playhead isn't supposed to snap to the grid, use the marquee tool, bla bla bla." Well fuck you, logic! :mad: what the fuck is a "marquee tool" anyway :razz:

Another example: I click on a drum sequencer clip to edit it and logic selects the channel for me, highlighting the entire row of clips and making me lose the spot I was already on. Or the fact that it presumes I want to play midi through any selected track, and automatically record-arms the selected track... and there's no way to turn that off (I called Apple support to ask.)

Or the fact that fine adjusting automation horizontally is a matter of holding down a button, but to do it vertically, the answer is just "zoom in more." oh, whoops, doing that made me accidentally select the track, which armed it, which made the virtual instrument hiccup, which made the project crash. :russian:

there's just so much little shit like this, I just can't stand it anymore. and don't get me started about how loading plugins in literally changes the sound and phase relationships of stuff even if they're switched off, because the delay compensation has been fucky (for 3 plus years now, I think?)... there's an 11 page thread about it.

I was attracted to the vsts too when I first came to logic from Ableton, but over the past years I've found time and time again the sound of their virtual instruments just isn't "right." I know that's super subjective, but I just find stuff doesn't like to fit into the mix in a way I like. It's like it's too polished at the source already and it sounds weirdly paint-by-numbers. Lots and lots of their effects are like this too. The ones I like are all the weirdly janky ones like silver verb. The Apple AUs are really good, in a weird way. Newpitch, for example. Loads of weird character there. But that's down hidden away in some menu.

Lots of their UI's are pretty to look at, yeah, but even that irks me now. If I had a say, all my technology would look like a dark mode windows 95-type vibe. That's why I love air windows plugins lmao. so, so far, I'm actually liking reaper's spartan menus and stuff.

I'm just pissy and ranting/rambling. :youkids: 2 crashes today alone. :omg:
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by Happyanimal »

Logic used to be great until
Apple bought it. Haven’t used it much since it was eMagic. Used to be #1 for midi with the “environment”. Is that even there anymore?
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by manoeuver »

tacking on a question since we have Reaper experts in here: how hard is it to set up multi-track comping in Reaper?
I recorded a rock session using Reason and comping the drums was a goddamned nightmare.

I need another DAW for drums, it may end up being Pro Tools unless I can get good results from Reaper.
please pardon the intrusion and thanks!
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by narxistdan »

BailyDread wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:37 am My gripe with logic is that it makes me want to throw my computer through the window. There's just all this presumptuous shit baked in that makes for a prescriptive user experience. "Oh, it doesn't work like that, you gotta do it THIS way."
If this is really the main issue then Reaper is definitely worth trying. There are other DAWs that are more optimized for the pattern based midi production you're doing, but part of what makes them good for that is that they force you to do some things a particular way. Reaper is the opposite. It's super customizable.

As you're trying it out, I recommend installing the SWS extensions and getting familiar with the actions panel. Then whenever you find yourself saying "how do I do x?" you can go to the actions panel and try some likely search terms. Then, when you find the right action you can assign a key command or menubar button to make it work the way you're used to it working in Logic.
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by BailyDread »

narxistdan wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:54 am
BailyDread wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:37 am My gripe with logic is that it makes me want to throw my computer through the window. There's just all this presumptuous shit baked in that makes for a prescriptive user experience. "Oh, it doesn't work like that, you gotta do it THIS way."
If this is really the main issue then Reaper is definitely worth trying. There are other DAWs that are more optimized for the pattern based midi production you're doing, but part of what makes them good for that is that they force you to do some things a particular way. Reaper is the opposite. It's super customizable.

As you're trying it out, I recommend installing the SWS extensions and getting familiar with the actions panel. Then whenever you find yourself saying "how do I do x?" you can go to the actions panel and try some likely search terms. Then, when you find the right action you can assign a key command or menubar button to make it work the way you're used to it working in Logic.
Thank you for the suggestion! :sb:
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by BailyDread »

More Logic gripes, because I'm trying to bang out at least one beat today on the tools I know before I start with the reaper learning curve (also I'm just trying to be funny :razz: ):

- Go to add a new blank "drum machine designer"... but there's no option for it in the "choose a track type" window. No, you have to add a new blank midi channel, THEN you can select it as a virtual instrument. "drum KIT designer" (fake acoustic drums) is in the options for the "choose track type" dropdown, but not the drum MACHINE designer. why?

- Apparently, adding a new drum machine designer automatically loads up two sends for each instrument?? a shitty fucking reverb and delay? OK logic, did I ask tho?! now I gotta delete these fucking things.

- dragging samples into DMD, it doesn't give you the option to choose the "optimized" option unless you drag it there again... unless it does that by default and I just never noticed? still, I find myself doing it twice just to be safe. (edit: just checked, no it doesn't... so I gotta drag and drop each sample 2x)

- loading samples into drum machine designer, it automatically enables the low pass filter, set at max. I know it's probably not changing much of anything, but again, did I ask, logic?! there are also 2 LFOs turned on by default, routed to nothing. why? I have to manually turn these off for every sample I add. as far as I know, there's no way to turn this behavior off from default.

- every sample defaults to 8 note polyphony and you need to manually change it to mono, for each sample... why?? since when is a drum machine voice polyphonic? I don't think I have ever used a polyphonic percussion sound. all it does is make weird unnatural phasing. even a real drum kit doesn't really sound anything like straight up polyphony.

I know DMD is comprised of instances of "quick sampler", but I've already turned off these presumptive settings in that. but when I load stuff into DMD, it doesn't instantiate my user quick sampler default

and now, having gone through and done all this needlessly fiddly clicking, there is no apparent way to save the drum machine. "oh, you need to use the ultra beat sampler to save kits"... the UI on that thing is fucking TINY. and ugly as balls! and I don't think it's drag and drop, and the sample editing is fiddly as fuck. as a workaround, I could save a project full of various edited DMDs, and then import those channels into my current project, but importing tends to crash things once I get more than a dozen plugins going on. and my computer isn't even bad!! 3.6 quad core i7 with 16gb ram. 5 years old but still... this thing was like 2000 fucking dollars. you wanna tell me that's not adequate to run like 8 virtual instruments and 20 plugins at 44.1? fuck off!!

also there's the goddamn key commands that bring up options I have never fucking used. like that one weird compacted view with the knobs that I never use. they spent plenty of time making a bunch of different versions of those knobs for a pretty-looking UI, but I don't fucking care! I want to be able to disable that from ever showing up! It's useless anyway, most of the time it doesn't even map to anything useful on 3rd party plugins. Ohhh great I get to turn an overly-aesthetic set of knobs in a separate little pop-up for stock plugins that already have poured-over UIs.

and if you load stock plugins they default to this crazy wide and loud stereo output that often has some weird-ass unexplained pan shifting going on so you have to drop the fader by like -18 db just to keep 2 fucking instruments from clipping the output in some weird pan-y way... but I feel like oftentimes the mono version has its own weirdly-polished sound that I don't like, like the mono is derived from the original stereo sound design/engine after the fact.

And enabling "stereo pan" so you can adjust width sounds different than the standard "balance" option, even when maxed out to either side, when it should be identical. Oh and for some fucking reason my Wacom pen tablet won't let me click and adjust the little width slider things on the pan pot... I can turn the pan knob, but not the width slider things, for that I have to grab my mouse, for some goddamn reason.

and somehow when editing midi I end up bringing some tiny little window up that has a bunch of weird facts about that midi note... and this is from a super common mis-click like accidentally pressing the wrong key for copy/paste. OK??? why would I ever need to see this? great, I get facts about that midi note's exact position and velocity, or something or other. im sure there's some use case where that's warranted but I have a very hard time imagining what that would be... probably quite technical. but no, they enable THAT level of technical precision, but they can't fix their goddamn delay compensation from phasing my shit out of whack, because they're too busy making sure the "drummer" plugin has fictional characters to represent the options:
fucking KYLE.jpg
durrr gavin.jpg
wow.jpg
fucking SUNGLASSES.jpg
how about you spend that time making a DAW that preserves the fidelity of its user's creative decisions, and doesn't CRASH just because they can't AFFORD to drop another $2000 fucking dollars on a machine that will keep pace with whatever asinine updates a team of software engineers in Silicon Valley deems relevant.

OK, rant over :hyper: :youkids:
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by ihav2p »

You need to customize logic more. Learn how to use the patch window at the left side of the main window. Organize your drummer track the way you want and save it as a patch in a folder system.

The smart controls are part of the patch system. You can make custom uis for how you use your patch. These will be saved with the patch.

Delete all the key commands and set up all your own according to how you use it.

Watch all of sflogicninjas videos. They are organized to teach you the program in an order that makes sense.
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by BailyDread »

ihav2p wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:50 pm You need to customize logic more. Learn how to use the patch window at the left side of the main window. Organize your drummer track the way you want and save it as a patch in a folder system.

The smart controls are part of the patch system. You can make custom uis for how you use your patch. These will be saved with the patch.

Delete all the key commands and set up all your own according to how you use it.

Watch all of sflogicninjas videos. They are organized to teach you the program in an order that makes sense.
oh, good to know :yay: :oops: will do
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by budz »

BailyDread wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:32 pm because they're too busy making sure the "drummer" plugin has fictional characters to represent the options:
:hihi: this was the point I jumped ship on Logic, when they introduced these drummers called Kyle and Chad. Just fuck right off thanks. I haven’t looked back since ditching this app, it’s really not worth agonizing this much over it because there are far better DAWs including Reaper.
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by BailyDread »

budz wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:03 pm
BailyDread wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:32 pm because they're too busy making sure the "drummer" plugin has fictional characters to represent the options:
:hihi: this was the point I jumped ship on Logic, when they introduced these drummers called Kyle and Chad. Just fuck right off thanks. I haven’t looked back since ditching this app, it’s really not worth agonizing this much over it because there are far better DAWs including Reaper.
yeah, I already feel pretty silly having typed that out :nut: I didn't know about the patch stuff... :doh: :omg: RTFM strikes again
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Re: Considering switching from Logic to Reaper... thoughts/advice?

Post by NewNewRon »

I tried to leave Logic, and I wasted almost a year trying Reaper, Bitwig, Studio 1...
Logic is still the best for me. You can't loop regions in Reaper. At least you definitely couldn't when I tried Repear.
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