Reaktor 6 is awesome

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IseyGarfield

Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by IseyGarfield » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:43 am

Just wanted to say - as someone who spent over $3,000 on analog modular gear, I found Reaktor 6 to be even better and ended up selling it all.

Of course, for the analog purist, nothing will ever compare to the power of connecting cables to inputs and tweaking knobs and voltages, but for me, having the ability to save patches and work on them later trumps that by orders of magnitude.

If you’re looking for a really new way to find that killer sound that makes the cornerstone of your next edm track, try Reaktor.

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by mnchrme » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:48 am

I use both. Reaktor is very powerful for sure. Very cool with ES.

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by Joe. » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:50 am

Your cat can sit on all of your laptop at once, stopping you from using it, but can only sit on a portion of a real modular.

I hoped you considered that before selling the gear :razz:

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by colb » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:03 am

Reaktor is great!
Very powerful, and it's possible to modify and build stuff from super basic beginner level right through to pro level DSP guru - something for everyone!
The Factory library is very good - so much fun stuff in there. User library, Blocks, great community... so much win :)

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by mnchrme » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:19 am

colb wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:03 am
Reaktor is great!
Very powerful, and it's possible to modify and build stuff from super basic beginner level right through to pro-level DSP guru - something for everyone!
The Factory library is very good - so much fun stuff in there. User library, Blocks, a great community... so much win :)
Could not agree more. I use Reaktor with my own ensembles but I really fell in love with these -> https://www.unfilteredaudio.com/collections/reaktor. They are quite "euro" oriented. Makes up for a good amount of additional blocks to play with in conjunction with the default it ships with. ;)

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by Rigo » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:44 am

Best aspect of modular: you can't use it to copy 2 year old posts from reddit ...

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by tehyar » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:28 am

Rigo wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:44 am
Best aspect of modular: you can't use it to copy 2 year old posts from reddit ...
... yet.

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by Dilibob » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:50 pm

The most recent 6.4 is amazing, also i like how they have kept it compatible to 6.0. I am slowly moving things back to Reaktor, as an example i have a eu rack for granular which i connect to my 5u rack. problem i have is i would need two more walls to do a complete queue, so i do samples. If i have to tweak the samples though, it's a week to get the entire system back to where it was and its never exactly the same. now i work out the "theory" on the hardware, but can redo the circuits and stuff in NI so I can save a session and also don't need to go through the huge hassle of sampling then integrating the samples in NI. The 6.4 granular stuff can easily integrate with the 6.x analog stuff, so it's also nice an uniform (vs me patching between eu samplers/granular to 5u then to record in protools/cubase). 100% agree with the op and also the 6.1 to 6.4 improvements are well worth checking out if someone was not impressed by 6.0 which is 5 years back (lot of people don't realize all the impovents in 6.1-6.4 because the major version number is 6).

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by gentleclockdivider » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:55 am

Reaktor 6.4 is not compatible to prior versions .
I’m still on 6.3 and can not load ensembles made with 6.4.
It has always been like that
Last edited by gentleclockdivider on Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by gentleclockdivider » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:55 am

double post

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by Dilibob » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:06 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:55 am
Reaktor 6.4 is not compatible to prior versions .
I’m still on 6.3 and can not load ensembles made with 6.4.
It has always been like that
I shouldn't have used the "compatable" word, as the files arent always file version forward compatable and there is sometimes a series of steps that i have to do as a developer to files between versions. This also goes to say how major the improvements/changes are between "minor" versions, and for me the improvents are worth the changes. I BTW had to do a massive cleanup when i moved on the mac between 32 bit to 64 bit OSX, just kept a old machine around for a ton of stuff that couldn't be moved.

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by colb » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:18 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:55 am
Reaktor 6.4 is not compatible to prior versions .
I’m still on 6.3 and can not load ensembles made with 6.4.
It has always been like that
Reaktor 6.4 is fully backwards compatible with older versions (dating right back over 20 years in some cases). Very occasionally, much older ensembles need some tweaking, or just don't work, but this is rare, and there are usually workarounds of you engage with the community. The vast majority of ensembles, instruments and macros made on older versions will all work on 6.4. This is a problem in a way because NI's prioritisation of backwards compatibility slows down development and means that radical improvements to the application are much less likely.
But it's obviously important in a studio context that old projects will load and work in newer versions. And they do!

Expecting 'forwards compatibility' in any software development environment is unrealistic. The old version can't know about features and changes that exist in the newer files. If an older version allowed you to load new files, it would have to have a complex process of error reporting which would just tell you that it's not going to work, and give you a long list of reasons that you can't do anything about anyway, because you would need the latest version to access them. Kinda pointless IMO.

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by gentleclockdivider » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:04 pm

Ah yeah that’s true , I assumed you meant the other wat around
Long time reaktor user here

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by gentleclockdivider » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:05 pm

Ah yeah that’s true , I assumed you meant the other wat around
Long time reaktor user here

I just noticed it , hi Col b :tu:

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by colb » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:20 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:05 pm
Ah yeah that’s true , I assumed you meant the other wat around
Long time reaktor user here

I just noticed it , hi Col b :tu:
:-D I know you know! just clarifying for thems that don't ;-)

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by dr. doom » Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:36 pm

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... show/5647/

I love how this ensemble sounds. It's made by James Clark and I really wonder what's going under the hood. I am not a creator myself I'm only a user and I was wondering if it would sound even better if it was updated (is it built using Reaktor Core?) or porting it to blocks would be possible for limitless modulation.

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by VibratingMotorGate » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:09 pm

I think of reaktor 6 as a tool for understanding what it is you want/can get out of modular within a narrow scope. Downloading the Rob Hordijk modules are a requirement for this though – as far as utilities, logic, and a few modulators are concerned. After spending a lot of time with it though, I came to the conclusion that that is all it's is good for (learning). The stories of pain and suffering using it aren't to be taken for granted; ultimately it is a pile of shit.

I have an 8 core i9, and the most modules I've been able to concurrently run at a stable buffer (because when it's set too high, the clocks and sound quality become a jumbled mess indistinguishable from the offline render) are maybe 35-45, however this number is actually far less than what you would get out of the average eurorack module, both in terms of functionality, power, and cv. Sure, you can download a module that shoehorns in some kind of un-controllable polyphony, create a small level of inter-modularity, and truly badass gate patterns, but you will quickly reach the limit in terms of what is possible.

Control and interface wise... it's a no go. Kontakt and Reaktor are worthless in this regard, unless you're okay with losing your sanity. It's actually the main reason I haven't made any music in years, I think it's some kind of PTSD. Too scared to even open up a project for fear of my computer crashing. A eurorack modular is going to be vastly more powerful, immediate, better sounding, and probably a lot of fun, but now I have to worry about the logistics of running out of room space and the shock to my wallet.

I bought Komlete 10 before buying the reaktor 6 update, and I have to say that the Abbey Road drum libraries are second to none sound-wise. The reaktor instruments fall flat because of the control and interface reasons stated above. FM8 and Absynth badly need updating, they are a workflow killer. The reaktor instruments are overwhelming in terms of workflow and controlling, and yet it's the only way to breath any form of life into them. Something like Odessa seems to offer what one would want out of a Razor or Prism voice, but still can't get to without going eurorack. The most fun out of a soft synth for me is Bazille by far, that one is a keeper regardless of eurorack. Reaktor is still king though in terms of just being able to juggle clocks through logic operations, it's mind-blowing fun really.

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by colb » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:53 pm

VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:09 pm
ultimately it is a pile of shit.
Carefully reasoned constructive criticism FTW!
I have an 8 core i9, and the most modules I've been able to concurrently run at a stable buffer (because when it's set too high, the clocks and sound quality become a jumbled mess indistinguishable from the offline render) are maybe 35-45, however this number is actually far less than what you would get out of the average eurorack module, both in terms of functionality, power, and cv. Sure, you can download a module that shoehorns in some kind of un-controllable polyphony, create a small level of inter-modularity, and truly badass gate patterns, but you will quickly reach the limit in terms of what is possible.
Please try again, I really tried to understand this, but couldn't.

Control and interface wise... it's a no go. Kontakt and Reaktor are worthless in this regard, unless you're okay with losing your sanity. It's actually the main reason I haven't made any music in years, I think it's some kind of PTSD. Too scared to even open up a project for fear of my computer crashing. A eurorack modular is going to be vastly more powerful, immediate, better sounding, and probably a lot of fun, but now I have to worry about the logistics of running out of room space and the shock to my wallet.
Control and interface wise, using a well designed Reaktor ensemble or instrument is no different from using any well designed VSTi. Badly designed instruments are badly designed instruments, but that is the fault of the designer not NI or Reaktor.
As far as crashing goes, I use Reaktor every day, and crashes are _very_ rare. It's one of the most stable apps I know, and I'm often pushing to the limit is various ways as a builder.
If you are having problems with crashes, post an ensemble that demonstrates the issue, and I can pass it on to NI for you.
Sound quality wise, Reaktor is capable of sounds as good as any other virtual synthesis platform. It's 'just' an audio DSP development environment after all, so the sound will be as good as the algorithms and your PCs audio interface can achieve.

It does have many minor niggles and issues, and a few long requested features are still missing, but none of the criticisms you've made here make much sense to me :despair:

FWIW, I've been getting some good results from my own 'in-development' Blocks - different from Eurorack, but still good IMO. Heres a demo I posted a while back - just slowly modulating some parameters while running and arp style sequence:

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by Exiannyc » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:29 pm

@ColB, the Alpha Block demo sounds really good.

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by colb » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:02 am

Exiannyc wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:29 pm
@ColB, the Alpha Block demo sounds really good.
Thanks, just trying to make the point that the audio quality can be good with something like Reaktor. Although soundcloud is really not a good platform for that kind of example. I rarely use it now after discovering how bad it really is.
I think the factory blocks are excellent, so it's only really necessary to look elsewhere when there is functionality that you need that isn't there. I'm trying to build up a set that are complementary, with very little overlap in terms of functionality.

I don't agree with @VibratingMotorGate that Eurorack will be 'better sounding'. My is that my Eurorack has a different quality about it that is very difficult to achieve in software, but similarly, there is a quality about a good Reaktor ensemble that is extremely difficult to match in Eurorack. Both useful toolsets with lots of crossover, but also with their own unique and valuable strengths.

People used to complain about digital sounding thin, brittle, weak, cold etc. but I think things have improved a lot, and these days its more like precise, pure, clean, clear... as opposed to warm, organic, thick, dirty... whatever. Either has to work really hard to get close to what the other can easily do.

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by emmaker » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:19 pm

VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:09 pm
I think of reaktor 6 as a tool for understanding what it is you want/can get out of modular within a narrow scope. Downloading the Rob Hordijk modules are a requirement for this though – as far as utilities, logic, and a few modulators are concerned. After spending a lot of time with it though, I came to the conclusion that that is all it's is good for (learning). The stories of pain and suffering using it aren't to be taken for granted; ultimately it is a pile of shit.
I started using Reaktor at version 4. I agree with VibratingMotorGate. While it's added features over time it's gone down hill and I probably won't be doing any more upgrades.

Had to add ASIOALL to get it to work (Windows 10, I9, 32gigs) otherwise it would crash. NI responded to my service tag abut 2 months after I posted it. I'd looked at some of NI's other projects and they needed it to run so I installed it and then it worked. ASIOALL screws things up sometimes and I have to reboot to get audio to work with other apps after I run Reaktor.

NI use to ship 'instruments' with it that you could use to make ensembles with. Now it seems you only get ensembles and I've had a lot of trouble trying to build my ensembles with them. I've had to break down the ensembles to see how they really work and then patch them together. A solution is take stuff and deconstruct it and put it back together the way you want or build stuff from scratch. Doing this takes to much time and effort for me, I'd rather just make music.

Documentation hasn't keep up and in some cases is just wrong because it's from an older version. For a number of NI ensembles all the documentation is a regurgitation off what the label is for the control which is worthless.

I haven't used Racks yet so that might be something that could make Reaktor useful. But there are pretty basic modules in the Rack stuff so if I go that route I'm thinking that VCV would be a better choice since it has a lot more diversity in it's module selection.

I wonder if Reaktor has just been hacked to add newer features verses any major rewriting has been done. If it's just been hacked it's probably time to do a rewrite.

There has been a lot of progress with DSP over the life span of Reaktor. It would be nice to see some more advanced DSP stuff added to the core too.

Jay S.

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by colb » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:22 pm

emmaker wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:19 pm

There has been a lot of progress with DSP over the life span of Reaktor. It would be nice to see some more advanced DSP stuff added to the core too.

Jay S.
Yeah, there's the ZDF framework making development of zero delay filters accessible to folk without the DSP and math knowledge.

Also some important developments in techniques for reducing aliasing of waveshapers and wavefolders were developed by the Reaktor team not too long ago. Ground-breaking stuff for sure.

Not quite sure how much more advanced you could get?
emmaker wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:19 pm
But there are pretty basic modules in the Rack stuff...
Yes, there are some pretty basic modules, and some pretty complex and advanced ones. It sounds like you haven't been looking very hard. Some of the Factory Blocks are anything but 'basic'. There are also some high quality packs available from third part vendors including some free stuff. And of course there's all the free stuff in the user library - some great blocks in there, along with lots of other amazing synth (and heaps of crap too :-))

Fair enough if you like VCVRack better, just say that, but if you are going to criticise, at least get your facts right.
Last time I looked at VCV rack, it was pretty basic, the bundled modules were not great, and plenty of features were missing... but that was a few years ago, there's no way I would post a criticism online based on such an out of date experience of the product!

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by deathlovescompany » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:14 am

emmaker wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:19 pm
NI use to ship 'instruments' with it that you could use to make ensembles with. Now it seems you only get ensembles and I've had a lot of trouble trying to build my ensembles with them.
It's been quite some time since I've used Reaktor, but I remember there being an "Import Ensemble" option you can use to combine multiple ensembles into one ensemble.
💀🖤🏢

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by colb » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:23 am

emmaker wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:19 pm

NI use to ship 'instruments' with it that you could use to make ensembles with. Now it seems you only get ensembles and I've had a lot of trouble trying to build my ensembles with them. I've had to break down the ensembles to see how they really work and then patch them together. A solution is take stuff and deconstruct it and put it back together the way you want or build stuff from scratch. Doing this takes to much time and effort for me, I'd rather just make music.
There was a very good reason for changing this. The most common support request by far was:
"I loaded up an instrument, but it doesn't make any sound. Help!"

Only ensembles are connected to the outside world, so beginners were often struggling.
Most of the ensembles are literally just an instrument connected to the audio outs of the ensemble. Just right click any instrument inside an ensemble and save it to a folder on your hard drive, then you can use it directly.
There are a few ensembles that are more complex internally, but not much, and in that case you can literally drag and drop that ensemble into the edit pane of another to import it (not the gui panel!), or explicitly import it as described by @deathlovescompany - right click in the edit pane and choose 'import ensemble'.

------------------------

You can't have extreme flexibility, extreme power and extreme ease of use all together. It's always a compromise. Reaktor is a powerful DSP development environment that is accessible to non programmers, which is amazing. They've done a pretty good job of designing it so that you can get results pretty quick out of the box with no experience - just a little look over the getting started part of the documentation...

It's unrealistic to expect it to be completely 'plug'n'play' though. Too many useful features would have to be removed for that to be possible.
The level of work required to get over those initial hurdles is minimal IMO. If reading a little documentation, or asking for help on a forum is too much for you, then Reaktor is probably not you kind of thing!

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Re: Reaktor 6 is awesome

Post by peachesandbacon » Tue May 04, 2021 5:41 am

VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:09 pm
I think of reaktor 6 as a tool for understanding what it is you want/can get out of modular within a narrow scope. Downloading the Rob Hordijk modules are a requirement for this though – as far as utilities, logic, and a few modulators are concerned. After spending a lot of time with it though, I came to the conclusion that that is all it's is good for (learning). The stories of pain and suffering using it aren't to be taken for granted; ultimately it is a pile of shit.

I have an 8 core i9, and the most modules I've been able to concurrently run at a stable buffer (because when it's set too high, the clocks and sound quality become a jumbled mess indistinguishable from the offline render) are maybe 35-45, however this number is actually far less than what you would get out of the average eurorack module, both in terms of functionality, power, and cv. Sure, you can download a module that shoehorns in some kind of un-controllable polyphony, create a small level of inter-modularity, and truly badass gate patterns, but you will quickly reach the limit in terms of what is possible.

Control and interface wise... it's a no go. Kontakt and Reaktor are worthless in this regard, unless you're okay with losing your sanity. It's actually the main reason I haven't made any music in years, I think it's some kind of PTSD. Too scared to even open up a project for fear of my computer crashing. A eurorack modular is going to be vastly more powerful, immediate, better sounding, and probably a lot of fun, but now I have to worry about the logistics of running out of room space and the shock to my wallet.

I bought Komlete 10 before buying the reaktor 6 update, and I have to say that the Abbey Road drum libraries are second to none sound-wise. The reaktor instruments fall flat because of the control and interface reasons stated above. FM8 and Absynth badly need updating, they are a workflow killer. The reaktor instruments are overwhelming in terms of workflow and controlling, and yet it's the only way to breath any form of life into them. Something like Odessa seems to offer what one would want out of a Razor or Prism voice, but still can't get to without going eurorack. The most fun out of a soft synth for me is Bazille by far, that one is a keeper regardless of eurorack. Reaktor is still king though in terms of just being able to juggle clocks through logic operations, it's mind-blowing fun really.
I'm confused.

A pile of shit?
or mind-blowing fun?

I find Reaktor absolutely fun. I use the existing instruments to inject a bunch of life into my tracks.
I've not used it for building synths from scratch and I've only used other people's reaktor ensembles. But "a pile of shit" is definitely a huge fucking over-reaction. The limelite drummachine for one, is worth the price of the whole of Reaktor in my opinion.

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