Sequentix Cirklon

[izmond]

I managed to get four scenes with a couple tracks in each onto my machine, and managed to get the DiN port going and synched to my Trigger Riot. (I patched up a cool trick for start and stop)
But I find the Cirklon sooooo confusing
Maybe I’m an idiot but I’ve really struggled to understand the workflow, I don’t quite get the song, scene, and track pages.
Pattern makes sense as the place to sequence actual patterns, but I couldn’t figure out how to do a pattern longer than 16 steps, finally found the ‘bars page’
But I did discover a page that lets you view a list of scenes and call them up by pressing encoder buttons, that’s really cool, makes it playable, I with you could voltage control it somehow.
I’ll keep working on it, I need to decide if I’m going to add the CVIO

Have you checked out the Splitradix tutorial videos on YouTube? They are fantastic and easily searchable. They really helped me get over the initial learning curve. 10/10

[joskery]

I managed to get four scenes with a couple tracks in each onto my machine, and managed to get the DiN port going and synched to my Trigger Riot. (I patched up a cool trick for start and stop)
But I find the Cirklon sooooo confusing
Maybe I’m an idiot but I’ve really struggled to understand the workflow, I don’t quite get the song, scene, and track pages.
Pattern makes sense as the place to sequence actual patterns, but I couldn’t figure out how to do a pattern longer than 16 steps, finally found the ‘bars page’
But I did discover a page that lets you view a list of scenes and call them up by pressing encoder buttons, that’s really cool, makes it playable, I with you could voltage control it somehow.
I’ll keep working on it, I need to decide if I’m going to add the CVIO

Some things off the top of my head, hope they help.

-There's quite a bit of shortcuts. For instance, pressing down LAST and turning the BAR encoder will extend the pattern (you select the LAST BAR, makes sense in a way). They take a minute to learn, but once you have the most important ones down, it enables a really fast workflow. Here's an old list of shortcuts. http://wiki.sequentix.com//index.php?title=Commands

-I'd just skip song mode to start with – it's for creating a 'playlist' of scenes, which then form your song, but at least I just prefer manually selecting scenes in that view you found, using the encoders.

-Tracks view is for selecting the active track, muting/unmuting tracks, setting track values (containing things like quantization, transposition, but also MIDI CC values).

-Try the workscene approach. Build a set of patterns on various tracks in the Workscene. Then just hit save, and it'll become Pattern 1. You'll automatically continue working on the Workscene – develop it further, when you get the next section worked out, hit save and it'll be Pattern 2... Really quick way to build the basic structure of a track.

[Dcramer]

Thanks for the advice guys, yes, I’ve found Splitradix, watching hours of his vids.
Thanks for the shortcuts link, part of my problem is that I can’t remember how to get to all these different screens.
When I start a new song I see this ‘work scene’ but then I end up with scenes and I don’t see the work scene anymore, obviously I’m missing something,I’ll keep at it, I’ve got the latest version and latest manual.
It’s amazing how much support Colin has put into such an old piece of hardware, it’s also amazing how solid well designed it is.

[dubonaire]

Dcramer it will come. I don’t even think about what I’m doing now. It’s actually designed to be very quick to use.

[mafouka]

Any ladies or gems know where to find the 10hp cv breakout module (built or DIY kit)?

[dubonaire]

Any ladies or gems know where to find the 10hp cv breakout module (built or DIY kit)?

https://www.sequentix.com/shop/eurorack-breakout-module

[mafouka]

Any ladies or gems know where to find the 10hp cv breakout module (built or DIY kit)?

https://www.sequentix.com/shop/eurorack-breakout-module

That's the 14hp version

[dubonaire]

Any ladies or gems know where to find the 10hp cv breakout module (built or DIY kit)?

https://www.sequentix.com/shop/eurorack-breakout-module

That's the 14hp version

Yeah I just realized what you posted. I wasn’t aware there was a 10hp version, do you have a picture of one? Must be pretty crammed.

Edit: found it on modular grid, that would bug me.

[Dcramer]

Are the CV breakouts passive? Or do they need power?

[northerntao]

Are the CV breakouts passive? Or do they need power?

They get power over the DB25 cable from the CVIO board inside the Cirklon.

I have the 14hp version I built before they offered it prebuilt.

[izmond]

Thanks for the advice guys, yes, I’ve found Splitradix, watching hours of his vids.
Thanks for the shortcuts link, part of my problem is that I can’t remember how to get to all these different screens.
When I start a new song I see this ‘work scene’ but then I end up with scenes and I don’t see the work scene anymore, obviously I’m missing something,I’ll keep at it, I’ve got the latest version and latest manual.
It’s amazing how much support Colin has put into such an old piece of hardware, it’s also amazing how solid well designed it is.

When you tap the scene button twice and see your list of saved scenes, press menu and when the menu for that page pops up, select “recall workscene”, that will take you back to the workscene (once the current bar ends). On the scene page it will show that you’re on the workscene.

[miminashi]

Are the CV breakouts passive? Or do they need power?

They get power over the DB25 cable from the CVIO board inside the Cirklon.

I have the 14hp version I built before they offered it prebuilt.

Minor correction: the DB25 is indeed the only connection needed, but the breakout is passive. Only the CV/gate signals are carried, there is no "power".

[Dcramer]

Are the CV breakouts passive? Or do they need power?

They get power over the DB25 cable from the CVIO board inside the Cirklon.

I have the 14hp version I built before they offered it prebuilt.

Minor correction: the DB25 is indeed the only connection needed, but the breakout is passive. Only the CV/gate signals are carried, there is no "power".

Perfect, thanks!

[chiasticon]

But I find the Cirklon sooooo confusing
Maybe I’m an idiot but I’ve really struggled to understand the workflow, I don’t quite get the song, scene, and track pages.

I'm sure you're not an idiot!

as others have said, keep at it. it may take a bit for it to click because maybe it's not how you normally think about writing, or it's sufficiently different from other devices you've worked with. everyone comes at it with their own experience, so learning it isn't the same for everyone; nor is it an ideal sequencer for everyone. if the Splitradix videos don't help, maybe the manual is better for you. the most important part is to find what you need to learn and then learn and apply it. don't try to learn the whole thing at once or you'll forget things. people learn by doing, not reading about how it's done, or watching someone else do it. when you hit a wall, look for the answer. then apply it. eventually it'll be second nature/muscle memory. and before long, no more walls.

[Dcramer]

Good advice, thanks!
I think what’s really messed me up is all the key commands, but I’m starting to at least understand the basic concept, it really is an amazing tool, the amount of tracks and memory, plus the playability make it a perfect tool for my needs.

[dubonaire]

But I find the Cirklon sooooo confusing
Maybe I’m an idiot but I’ve really struggled to understand the workflow, I don’t quite get the song, scene, and track pages.

I'm sure you're not an idiot!

don't try to learn the whole thing at once or you'll forget things. people learn by doing, not reading about how it's done, or watching someone else do it. when you hit a wall, look for the answer. then apply it. eventually it'll be second nature/muscle memory. and before long, no more walls.

yep I agree, that's how I learnt it.

I think my steps were setting up the midi channels and instrument defs, then I just started creating patterns and learning how to move around. It was quite a while before I bothered getting into scenes and songs, largely because it's not how I commonly compose tracks. Something worth getting your head around fairly early is how the Cirklon creates and saves patterns.

Moving around the tracks using the buttons and encoders is really fast, but it's also really fast just to scroll through. Sometimes I used to get lost with mutes and wonder why I couldn't hear a track but that doesn't happen now.

I suppose after a while you start to get this mental map of where you are in the sequencer and how to get somewhere else quickly. The interface is actually not very deep diving, everything is in close reach.

Another tip I guess is to work out whether you would prefer to use a P3 pattern or a CK pattern for a particular track. I use CK patterns for my Integra drum kits, but I also use them for chords for polysynths.

Also, for the CV outputs there is a calibration process that is essential to set up.

[leterell]

I've been peeling the layers of using the cirklon for 3 years, and still I'm not really using scenes to compose, i doubt I'd ever get to do songs as anything but a template for instrument definitions. It's a workflow thing also with at which point i bounce a track to the daw, but the patterns alone allow for such versatility.


Re: CK vs P3 patterns:

Being as thickheaded as i am, i used only P3 for some months, before trying to get into CK. I used to program drums assigning one instrument def on multiple channels, then in CK's, now i dedicate one channel per drum machine instrument and use P3's since the accumulators and randomization are so easily at hand, and i can easily do chromatic variation on all instruments.

I still try to do some things in the P3 way in CK patterns, for example ganging is a source of some confusion sometimes. Mental note to self: sequence polysynth notes on a CK pattern and sequence CC's in a P3 parallel to that as a control track.

[chiasticon]

I think for me the patterns -> scenes -> songs workflow just clicked easily because I write in a more typical intro/verse/chorus/verse/bridge/chorus sort of structure. or close to it. so each of those becomes a scene basically. and at the beginning everything is sort of in a "scratch" or "sandbox" stage while I'm assembling ideas. then eventually it's "lemme put these patterns into this scene and these other ones into this scene, then change between 'em and see if that works well..." and then build from there. I can totally see though that with a lot of electronic music, it's taking parts in and out and doing more subtle builds. not abrupt changes like I described above. so maybe scenes are less useful there, and manually muting/un-muting tracks and changing patterns is more natural.

Pattern makes sense as the place to sequence actual patterns, but I couldn’t figure out how to do a pattern longer than 16 steps, finally found the ‘bars page’

by the way, if you haven't found it yet, you can change pattern length by holding down "last" and turning the bar encoder. you'll see the number of "[ ]" symbols at the bottom left of the screen will change as you turn it. this is when you're on the pattern screen, of course. there's another way to do it, but that's what I do generally, because I can do it one handed if I'm playing a synth or whatever with the other.

[dubonaire]

I've been peeling the layers of using the cirklon for 3 years, and still I'm not really using scenes to compose, i doubt I'd ever get to do songs as anything but a template for instrument definitions. It's a workflow thing also with at which point i bounce a track to the daw, but the patterns alone allow for such versatility.


Re: CK vs P3 patterns:

Being as thickheaded as i am, i used only P3 for some months, before trying to get into CK. I used to program drums assigning one instrument def on multiple channels, then in CK's, now i dedicate one channel per drum machine instrument and use P3's since the accumulators and randomization are so easily at hand, and i can easily do chromatic variation on all instruments.

I still try to do some things in the P3 way in CK patterns, for example ganging is a source of some confusion sometimes. Mental note to self: sequence polysynth notes on a CK pattern and sequence CC's in a P3 parallel to that as a control track.

Aah, that's what I do as well. The beauty of being able to assign more than one track to the same instrument. There are actually so many ways you can skin the cat.

[Heavenly3lues]

My Cirklon V.2 order was placed last night! Can't wait. I was previously the owner of a V.1 which I sold on the for sale forum a while back (for the price I bought it new from Sequentix for) to help fund a Moog One... maybe two years ago? I've really missed it and looking forward to having it back in the studio again, this time with the CVIO option for my Eurorack!

[dubonaire]

My Cirklon V.2 order was placed last night! Can't wait. I was previously the owner of a V.1 which I sold on the for sale forum a while back (for the price I bought it new from Sequentix for) to help fund a Moog One... maybe two years ago? I've really missed it and looking forward to having it back in the studio again, this time with the CVIO option for my Eurorack!

[gentleclockdivider]

Thanks for the advice guys, yes, I’ve found Splitradix, watching hours of his vids.
Thanks for the shortcuts link, part of my problem is that I can’t remember how to get to all these different screens.
When I start a new song I see this ‘work scene’ but then I end up with scenes and I don’t see the work scene anymore, obviously I’m missing something,I’ll keep at it, I’ve got the latest version and latest manual.
It’s amazing how much support Colin has put into such an old piece of hardware, it’s also amazing how solid well designed it is.

Once you have played a scene , you're out of workscene .
Select a scene , Press menu and there you have the option : copy scene to workscene .
Now you're back in workscene mode
To me the most confusing part of the cirklon is was the actual saving of patterns and automatic saving of patterns when saving scenes.
When starting with an empty workscene and you save this as scene 1, the patterns are automatically saved for that scene.
If later on you would copy scene x to workscene , and make alterations to patterns , you're actually altering the patters of scene x.
I was always under the assumption that the workscene was a temp buffer not affecting saved patters (saved with scene ), which it is not .
Keep this in mind

.

[gentleclockdivider]

One of the nicest aux combos
Set aux A : knob mask aux B
Set aux B ; set note value

Now create someting in your pattern with the the regular note steps
Create another melodie using aux B set (new) note value .
Now aux A ( using either knob A,B, or track control knob 1,2)will x/fade between both melodies on that same pattern , real time handd on !
How much it will x-fade and which notes are (un)affected are set by aux A knob mask setting per step,
,Or you could just transition from closed to open hi-hats etc..
This combo is mighty powerfull

[Angroc]

One of the nicest aux combos
Set aux A : knob mask aux B
Set aux B ; set note value

Now create someting in your pattern with the the regular note steps
Create another melodie using aux B set (new) note value .
Now aux A ( using either knob A,B, or track control knob 1,2)will x/fade between both melodies on that same pattern , real time handd on !
How much it will x-fade and which notes are (un)affected are set by aux A knob mask setting per step,
,Or you could just transition from closed to open hi-hats etc..
This combo is mighty powerfull

Lovely little "aux recipe". I'll try this one out for sure!

[esmeets]

I have been on the waiting list since August 2020.
How long does it take on average before you are notified? (I expect it won't be my turn for a long time yet...).

In the meantime, I am looking at the Midiphy MIDIbox sequencer V4. I notice that there are fairly few videos here, which surprises me. Do you have any experience with this sequencer?

https://www.midiphy.com/en/mbseq-v4-/