Sequentix Cirklon

[neilbaldwin]

I'm sure this has been discussed but....you know...as the search is broken etc. etc.

I'm on the list for the second batch of Cirklon and would really appreciate some user feedback, especially if anyone who bought one got the CV/IO expansion too (who wouldn't?).

I'm trying to decide whether to drop the cash on that or try (well, plan) building something modular.

[tIB]

im watching this thread...

i was hoping you'd grab one so i could check it out and see if its for me. im thinking of reducing my euro sequencing so maybe see how you get on with it and we could talk swapsies/sales.

in my current pie in the sky daydreams im kind of on the fence between a cirklon or another OT, oranges and pairs obviously but...

[neilbaldwin]

on the fence between a cirklon or another OT, oranges and pairs obviously but...

That was my idea. Get your own ideas.

[Ekofisk]

Do the right thing, get them both!

I use my Cirklon with my OT, and between them, there isn't a whole lot that can't be done. I have been having the rhythmic manipulated sampled stuff going on on the OT synched to the Cirlklon, sequencing external sources with the Cirklon and running them into the OT for both mixing and effects. It rocks!

The aux events on the Cirklon are worth the asking price alone. If you're curious about it, check out the P3 (the Cirklon's predecessor) manual. The aux-events are basically unchanged, as of now.

[neilbaldwin]

Nice

It's the Aux functions that are really whetting my appetite for the Cirklon.

I already have an Octatrack and while it's MIDI/sequencing capabilities get better with every release, I think my needs are somewhere between that and the Cirklon.

That's why I'm wondering if I just built something modular, something a bit quirky (yes, I'm looking at you 'Rene'...) then I might have my needs sated without dropping a grand on a Cirklon.

Tough decision.

[tIB]

no halvard, i want to check out your extensive videos of these functions...

[neilbaldwin]

Videos? Yeah, lets see 'em

[Ekofisk]

Hehe. Maybe it's time to buy a tripod...

[neilbaldwin]

Hehe. Maybe it's time to buy a tripod...

Is it easy to do triplets on one of those?

[Ekofisk]

It's essential.

[tIB]

Do the right thing, get them both!

the true wiggler reply!

come on halvard- more general details needed here. whats so great about it, how does it compare to other seq's i may have used. how fluid is it? im still not sure i like analogue style sequencing akll that much, though the cirklon obviously builds on that in a huge way. will it take pitch from an external keyboard by the way- i mean can i input data using a keyboard via midi in?

[Nelson Baboon]

I have my cvio box (banana version, made by Colin) finally arriving in a few days.

I have not been using the cirklon much until now, and hope that this will inspire me to get started on it again.

My problems with it thus far are as follows. I don't write 'songs' - what I really want in a sequencer is something that is very similar to an analog sequencer, but with lots more of it, and then some uniquely midi features built in.

By a very, very wide margin, the sequencer that comes closest to this is the Schrittmacher, though I suppose that one could make a case for the Octopus. Ultimately what soured me on the Octopus was the fact that you have to remember all sorts of esoteric key commands....

I love the aux events, but they are embedded in a structure that just drives me batty. It takes me a few seconds to set up something on the schrittmacher where I have notes on track one, with the velocity values (from a sequence of another length with different timings) on track 2, with the note timings on track 3, and with the pitches being modulated by track 4. I can then mess with the specific values, but setting this up is very, very fast. I find it somewhat of a pain to do on the cirklon, which at this point (for my use) is simply a p3 with a nicer display.

The cirklon also does not have nearly the granularity of individual event times that the schrittmacher does, and it is not anywhere near as easy to set up a track where the individual notes have different timings.

I've spoken to Colin about my issues, which admittedly are not the usual ones, and he seems to have some empathy for someone who is using the sequencer in this way. As a starting point, I'd really like to have him allow the different event types within a track to have their own # of steps, and he agreed in theory to do this....but I'm just not sure that any of this will happen. The design of the instrument is just so, so heavily influenced by song writers, especially Paul Nagle, who just pull him in another direction.

Colin is great - I can understand where he's coming from with all of this. I've really never had this level of support - I asked him for nrpn support (to more completely control the gotharman anamono) and he implemented it in a couple of days.

Where do I see the Cirklon fitting in? I have some ideas, but I'm waiting for the cvio box, and then I'll try to dive in. Of course, figuring out how to set up the cv/gate events will come first. There really isn't much in the way of documentation for this thing yet (although finally there is a basic manual)

[neilbaldwin]

Good post, nb.

I tend to not 'write songs' so it's interesting to read your struggles with the Cirklon.

[tIB]

be interested to know how you get on nelson. the schritmacher really appeals too, though id need a midi to cv with that which puts me off. its a shame the only way you can experience stuff like this is by buying it but there you go. the cirklon seems to tie everything together into one box which appeals.

btw, that cvi/o box, is it something easily diy-able?

neil as i said if you do decide against the cirklon let me know and ill likely take it off your hands... maybe try it first and then decide.

[Nelson Baboon]

Good post, nb.

I tend to not 'write songs' so it's interesting to read your struggles with the Cirklon.

Well, there is also the fact that there is nothing like the aux events anywhere else....(at least in a hardware step sequencer)

[neilbaldwin]

neil as i said if you do decide against the cirklon let me know and ill likely take it off your hands... maybe try it first and then decide.

I'm sure we can come to some arrangement

[revtor]

The CVIO is easily DIY-able. If you can hack a printer cable apart and solder jacks to the wires, then you can do it. If you can drill holes in a panel and mount the jacks, then it's essentially what Colin is offering soon.

I don't write "songs", but listening to a pattern loop for a hour gets a bit much. so the ability to chain patterns together into songs is what allows you to take your pattern, copy paste it, change it, copy paste it etc.. build something that evolves.

The aux events can be used to construct something that evolves too of course. So can simply using patterns of different lengths.

Setting up tracks and patterns isn't instant but it is by no means cumbersome or a pita. Like anything with massive functionality and depth you have to get used to using it. For something that run your entire studio, it's pretty slick.

I do hope the feature creep ends soon and UI optimization begins. The problem with Colin's unrivalled "customer support" is that there exists the possibility of adding too many features that might clutter up the usability of the UI's first "layer".. if you know what I mean. But watching all the requests come in, I can't imagine anything else that caters to so many different modes of operation.

Even Nelson's way of looking at it as a big rack of analog sequencers is right there, albeit not as instantly as Schrittmacher. Although CV outs arguably puts it ahead of Schrittmacher in that aspect.

Think Techno tracks - That's Cirklon's roots.

have fun
~Steve

[gosh]

I have a cirklon (without the cvio on order..shock horror, but I have no cv gear and don't want to go down that road just yet).

I haven't used a schrittmacher but can understand where Nelson is coming from with regards setting up tracks where velocity, note gates and note values are on different lengths..i used to do this on my doepfer maq and it was a great source of evolving patterns. However, I think the cirklons way of doing it is, whilst slightly slower, much more advanced (than what I understand of other seqs). Being able to grab, swap or push values between other events but only on certain steps (and modulating between different tracks each time). And then assigning accumulators (essentially similar to LFOs) or randomness generators to change when things happen. Ie. you can do everything the schrittmacher can do but with more control.

As mentioned Colin has said multiphasic patterns (tracks with different lengths) are on his list, along with a number of other things.

I'm confused what you mean about control over individual note times? You can set each notes duration and delay to 48ths of 1/16th. That certainly enough flexibility for me. You can also use an aux to change timebase which is a great feature for interesting rhythms.

However, where the cirklon is by far the best thing I've ever used is in terms of it's UI. The gang feature and encoder slope feature are absolutely amazing.
It's also the little things. I sold my motu midi express since getting it since it basically serves as my USB midi router now. It also works as a mungo sync, allowing you to to stop say an elektron mid-live set, load a new snapshot or project, and then re-start without stopping the cirklon. It's having 5 midi ins, 5 midi outs, a dedicated sync port, USB hub and an analogue drum-trigger feature buillt into the sync port. Everything has been thought about deeply.

It just gets better everytime i use it and the mind boggles at the things it can do.

PS. I don't really write songs either, but the song feature is the only song feature I have started using on all the sequencers i've had..it's really quick and intuitive.

I don't think you'd regret getting a cirklon

[tIB]

^ are tracks with different lengths not implemented yet then? good to know the ui is there.

cheers for the info revtor, i could just about do that.

[gosh]

every track can have a different length time and timebase. Every track can also have different playback directions (including random, and not-so-random type modes). Every track can also be modulated to change direction, timebase and length.

What is key to remember though is that a track on the cirklon contains a note value row, a velocity row, a duration rown, a delay row and 4 aux rows. Therefore all of those rows share the same settings. So....to have a set-up where a 4 step note value row is played using a 5 step velocity row (for example, to create a dynamically changing pattern) you have to either use inter-track events. ie. Track 1 holds all your note values (and also velocities, but these are irrelevant). Track 2 you can use as a kind of dummy track if you want although it doesn't have to be dummy (where the note values you enter are irrelevant). You can then assign an aux on track 1 to grab the velocity values of track 2 on every step of track 1. The ultimate conclusion is the same as having a 4 step note value row and a 5 step velocity row but it's a bit long winded to set up. However, where it wins is that you can set when you want to grab values. So track 1 doesnt have to always grab track 2, just sometimes. This itself can be modulated by use of other auxs.

Of course you could just set up a random velocity aux to give a similar dynamic pattern.


I'd really suggest reading the p3 manual to give you an idea of what aux's can do. So imagine their power but with a nice big clear screen and fantastic UI.

[neilbaldwin]

Im in.



Thanks for the info and long posts chaps, much appreciated.

[Nelson Baboon]

yes - the cirklon is far more advanced than the schrittmacher. but it's way, way faster to set up stuff on the schrittmacher (for me) unless I want to really do more complex modulations and aux events.

As far as individual step times - well, if you can simply set every step to a different length with that level of granularity, it shows you that I haven't spent enough time on this. My recollection is that you can set a note length, but that the choices are very limited. But I'll have to take a look at this.

Perhaps you're taking about the 'gate time' (god, these terms are used so inconsistently - on the schrittmacher, gate time means what kind of note it is, 1/16, 1/2, etc....)? On the schrittmacher I can quickly set up a track where the first note is a couple of ticks, the second is 4 beats, etc, etc, and then I can also set it up so that another track of a different length controls the direction from step to step, etc. You can pretty much do anything on the cirklon, but for me, for this kind of direct modular type patching, I find the Cirklon so, so much faster. Yeah - you're using menus, but it doesn't feel like it. It feels like it on the Cirklon.

I suppose I prefer using a track for one type of event. On the schrittmacher I'll use track one for notes, track 2 for velocity, track 3 for what they call 'gate time', etc - and it is just so fast to set this up.

Of course, the default is that the note track has a consistent note/gate length, velocity, etc - but the first thing I do is to break this stuff out.

At one point a few years ago I had a schrittmacher and a p3, and I sold the schrittmacher simply because it was so easy and fast to set this stuff up that I'd never use the p3. I sold it so that I would.

I have a cirklon (without the cvio on order..shock horror, but I have no cv gear and don't want to go down that road just yet).

I haven't used a schrittmacher but can understand where Nelson is coming from with regards setting up tracks where velocity, note gates and note values are on different lengths..i used to do this on my doepfer maq and it was a great source of evolving patterns. However, I think the cirklons way of doing it is, whilst slightly slower, much more advanced (than what I understand of other seqs). Being able to grab, swap or push values between other events but only on certain steps (and modulating between different tracks each time). And then assigning accumulators (essentially similar to LFOs) or randomness generators to change when things happen. Ie. you can do everything the schrittmacher can do but with more control.

As mentioned Colin has said multiphasic patterns (tracks with different lengths) are on his list, along with a number of other things.

I'm confused what you mean about control over individual note times? You can set each notes duration and delay to 48ths of 1/16th. That certainly enough flexibility for me. You can also use an aux to change timebase which is a great feature for interesting rhythms.

However, where the cirklon is by far the best thing I've ever used is in terms of it's UI. The gang feature and encoder slope feature are absolutely amazing.
It's also the little things. I sold my motu midi express since getting it since it basically serves as my USB midi router now. It also works as a mungo sync, allowing you to to stop say an elektron mid-live set, load a new snapshot or project, and then re-start without stopping the cirklon. It's having 5 midi ins, 5 midi outs, a dedicated sync port, USB hub and an analogue drum-trigger feature buillt into the sync port. Everything has been thought about deeply.

It just gets better everytime i use it and the mind boggles at the things it can do.

PS. I don't really write songs either, but the song feature is the only song feature I have started using on all the sequencers i've had..it's really quick and intuitive.

I don't think you'd regret getting a cirklon

[tIB]

every track can have a different length time and timebase. Every track can also have different playback directions (including random, and not-so-random type modes). Every track can also be modulated to change direction, timebase and length.

...

I'd really suggest reading the p3 manual to give you an idea of what aux's can do. So imagine their power but with a nice big clear screen and fantastic UI.

thanks, i shall do that once ive either had a go on neils or geard back from colin... whichever comes first. if the UI is there i can use it, cheers for the info peoples.

[gosh]

Glad the cirklon group will have some new buddies. Especially cirklon and elektron buddies. :-)

I've now set up my elektron MD (OT next!) as an instrument on the cirklon. You can save track values (CCs) per track per scene. So...I've put the mute channel cc's for the elektron in as instrument level definitions. When I want to store the MD's mute channel settings with a scene (without resorting to using the MD song mode) I simply hit the 'save track values with scene' button and next time that scene loads the correct mute status for the MD follows. Combined with pattern change (via either note or prog change message) the cirklon is now master to everything in my studio...I'm doing the same with my Ensoniq DP4 to save settings for each scene..kind of like just storing prog change messages but allows you to capture up to 96 CC's to transmit too (which you can name and save with the instrument for easy pick-out from the dropdown list).

Nelson, I'm not sure what the correct term is but i take gate time and note length to mean the same thing. ie. the amount of time a note is played before release. I'm not sure you can stretch a note to play longer than 16 steps but I might be wrong. You can very easily though so set step one to play a few ticks, step two to play 4 steps, step three to play a quarter note etc. Where notes overlaps you get either polyphony or slide depending on how your synth is set up.

I'm curious about playing with schrittmacher..it was what i was considering pre-maq16/3 and pre-cirklon..but one sequencer is enough for me and I don't see me losing the cirklon.

[tIB]

sounds good, unless neil doesnt like his ill be a fair while i think- the ot has taught me that im happier waiting until things are stable os wise.

you decide to keep that dp4 in the end then?