Nord vs Nord

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Nelson Baboon
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Nelson Baboon »

Does anyone know the details about what I need in an pcmcia card for the nord lead 2? I found somewhere that sells the pretec cards, but what i'm not sure about is whether I need the 8 bit, or the 16 bit card, or whether it makes a difference. Other than an '08' or '16' the part number matches what I have and is working in the nord rack 1.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by 12eightyfive »

Nord customer service/repair folks have been pretty responsive to me, maybe they'd know?
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nostalghia
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by nostalghia »

Could also try posting the question on the Nord Lead user forum:
https://www.norduserforum.com/nord-lead-rack-forum-f12/

Or perhaps synthguru might know?
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by nectarios »

I have the NL1 rack, love its sound and use it a lot.
Have played the 2X and I thought it was ok, it sounded like a Nord, but something was lacking or that's what I felt when I played with it.
Had a NL3 on loan and loved it. I would like to get an NL3 rack at some point.
Demos I've heard of 4 and A1 where nice, but nothing to make me want them.
Was never interested in the Wave, always loved the Nord Modular but (future) software compatibility always gave me cold feet.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Nelson Baboon »

searched and searched....there are somewhat iffy looking ebay solutions, the US company that sells pretec doesn't think their newer cards will work, but the reason is strange, and I wonder if it's just that they don't really know. they said something about the older cards being interchangeable between 8 and 16 bit, and the new ones are one or the other. I did find one post on that nord keyboard group that implied that 8 bit would work, but no other confirmation.....

The only non-ebay (nothing on reverb at the moment) card which claims compatibility is a bit expensive. I'm tempted though, since I really want the card .....

does anyone know anything about this company? http://vikant.com/product/pcmcia-pc-sra ... aec8db952d
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by slumberjack »

May I ask about the difference about Nord Drum 2 and 3 beside the obvious shape and trig ins again? Is there any?
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Nelson Baboon »

hah - i was researching this. I love the way that the drum patches sound on the '1', and i have had glowing recommendations about the sound of these units.

My 'research' based on reading what various people say, is that the sound is the same. I think that there are some minor differences in the features. All in all, I would have gone for the 2 (don't want the extra size), but the prices for the 2 seem ridiculously higher, so I ordered the 3p from Reverb. (now it looks like the guy might be flaking, but that's another issue)

Hope that helps a little. I'd love to hear any corrections to what I gleaned: same sound, almost the same features, but slightly different. Higher price for a used 2, and as you mentioned, the form factor.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Boofin Moonrocks »

Someone on the elektronauts forum recently posted pics of a nd3 with the pads removed. It didn't show step by step, but it looked like you just need to take it apart and the pad portion comes out in one piece. Might be worth taking yours apart to see if it's easy
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Nelson Baboon »

Boofin Moonrocks wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:26 pm Someone on the elektronauts forum recently posted pics of a nd3 with the pads removed. It didn't show step by step, but it looked like you just need to take it apart and the pad portion comes out in one piece. Might be worth taking yours apart to see if it's easy
Well, what is easy for others is not always so for me, when it comes to taking stuff apart, and then (hopefully) getting it back together.

i'll see if i can find that post, but LOL - i wish I knew about this before I ordered the gibraltar stand mentioned earlier here (just arrived, and looks pretty cool).
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by slumberjack »

Well the form factor is only a thing when playing a show. In the studio I'd love to get my some pads. Best would be just to trigger 2 sounds internal and 4 other individual tracks than it's would be possible to get those six voices on individual channels on the desk so it could be an ensemble of different sources.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Nelson Baboon »

Boofin Moonrocks wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:26 pm Someone on the elektronauts forum recently posted pics of a nd3 with the pads removed. It didn't show step by step, but it looked like you just need to take it apart and the pad portion comes out in one piece. Might be worth taking yours apart to see if it's easy
Mine just arrived. haven't tried it yet, but unwrapped it, and I guess I misunderstood this. The unit itself is solid metal. I don't see how removing the pads would make the form factor any smaller.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Nelson Baboon »

maybe someone who is patient can pm me - I don't want to take everyone's time here trying to explain this to a non-drum, pretty incompetent diy person.

So, my nord drum 3p arrived. I also picked up the gibraltar stand that was talked about earlier in the thread.

obviously I need at least another piece to fit this together. The 3p has 4 holes on the bottom which must be (?) how it hooks up to a stand. The stand when put together in the obvious way has its top part going sideways, with what looks like a hole on the side where another piece could fit.

People have used this stand for the 3p, but there must be something else I need to get. Help! I suspect that I'll get faster/better results here than from Sweetwater (from my experience), but I'll try there if I can't figure it out here.

Edit: looking at the manual, they include a stand holder + screws for new orders, apparently. My reverb.com unit doesn't have one. Sigh. I will have to research whether these are available separately. Not sure what the responsibility of the seller is - he doesn't mention that it is not included, which (in my opinion) an honest seller should mention. But that at least helps explain why it looks like there is something missing - there is.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Nelson Baboon »

am trying Pelle's mode for the first time. This is great! yeah - it's unpredictable, but there are sweet spots. I was hoping that the nord still responded to midi controllers for the knobs that actually work (though with different functions seemingly than usual), but it doesn't.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by estragon »

Nelson Baboon wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:43 pm searched and searched....there are somewhat iffy looking ebay solutions, the US company that sells pretec doesn't think their newer cards will work, but the reason is strange, and I wonder if it's just that they don't really know. they said something about the older cards being interchangeable between 8 and 16 bit, and the new ones are one or the other. I did find one post on that nord keyboard group that implied that 8 bit would work, but no other confirmation.....

The only non-ebay (nothing on reverb at the moment) card which claims compatibility is a bit expensive. I'm tempted though, since I really want the card .....

does anyone know anything about this company? http://vikant.com/product/pcmcia-pc-sra ... aec8db952d
Can confirm that the Pretec cards definitely do not work in a NL2, at least not the 8-bit ones. Got a card with the exact specs recommended by Clavia and it would only retain pushbutton parameters like LFO assignment - no knob values - and asked to be formatted every time I turned it on. Found a NOS Fujitsu card with the same specs (part no mb98a90712-20) and it’s been working perfectly after a battery change.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by talfred »

I love the sound of the first nord lead synth.
In the 90s, I listened a lot to the album Music for babies by Howie B, and I've always believed that the synth sounds there was made on the NL1. Maybe I read it in future music or something back then that he used that synth. Check out that album if you haven't heard it, it's got some great synth sounds!

My all time favorite synth is the original Nord Modular. That's the one I keep coming back to an will never sell. Last year I bought myself the NL2x for a great price, and I love that synth too. But I believe it sounds different to the original, even though I haven't compared them side by side. The NL1 has different A/D convertors (18 bit vs 24 bits), and that might be the main reason they sound different.

After reading this thread I've discovered the hidden filter feature in the NL2x, I really like the sound of that. Does anybody know what type of filter it is and if the Modular has the same kind of filter? I just haven't had the time to test it myself yet. I'd like to make a patch combining that filter with a standard LP filter and more oscillators for an even fatter sound.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Tajnost »

Wondering what's the magic behind Nord's sound?
Maybe someone knows, is it some "secret" mathematics, or special output stage / convertors?
The all sounds very special - clear, cold, razor sharp but at the same time "analog"
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by jonne74 »

Tajnost wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:14 pm Wondering what's the magic behind Nord's sound?
Maybe someone knows, is it some "secret" mathematics, or special output stage / convertors?
The all sounds very special - clear, cold, razor sharp but at the same time "analog"
I think that the people at Clavia just had to really dig in to make the NL a reality. There probably wasn't a lot to go on, being one of the first, if not the first VA. There must be a ton of resources available now compared to then and maybe that's where the sound comes from.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Nelson Baboon »

jonne74 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:55 am
Tajnost wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:14 pm Wondering what's the magic behind Nord's sound?
Maybe someone knows, is it some "secret" mathematics, or special output stage / convertors?
The all sounds very special - clear, cold, razor sharp but at the same time "analog"
I think that the people at Clavia just had to really dig in to make the NL a reality. There probably wasn't a lot to go on, being one of the first, if not the first VA. There must be a ton of resources available now compared to then and maybe that's where the sound comes from.
I'm about as far from writing DSP code as one can get, but aren't these programmers/designers able to listening to what they are programming and go by their ears/minds? The nord lead was the first real va (i think people argue this, but i believe that this is the case. And that's how the product was presented in any case) and I think to some degree they were inspired by the prophet 5 and wanted to come as close to the spirit of that sound as they could.

I suppose (again about as far away from a designer of analog synths as one could be) isn't the same basic issue there for analog? Once the basic components are there, how do you adjust the sound to get it where you want? Don't people begin with some knowledge about what changes might change the sound in particular ways and then try out different things?
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Nelson Baboon »

thank you !!!! to the 2 generous people here who sent me the stand adapters for the 3p. Other than really liking the unit itself (and there is an electra.one editor for it already written), I'm realizing (I guess, "duh") that dismantling the stand/holder/3p for some sessions would be a big pain, since I would only want to use the stand some of the time. How could I not figure that out? Well, I didn't. I hope that it is stupidity rather than senility.

I'm also not sure if I bought the right screws. I don't remember all of the exchanges but bought a bunch of them from home depot that finally arrived. They screw in nicely to the nord, but they seem too short to work with these adapters, or the holes are a little off. It was worth a try, most certainly, and THANK YOU. I do have the 'official' part ordered in theory, but I expect that it will take a long time, and that I might never actually use it because of the above.

And the whole Reverb.com deal went bad...i've never gotten anything less than 5 starts there, but this guy gave me 3 stars after mentioned that the adapter wasn't included. He said he'd look for it, and then gave me bad feedback. At least Reverb had something which said that I could simply respond to the bad feedback (that's what they called it) and I did. I can really see how it is hard to get perfect feedback on these places.

but yeah - the 3p is great. I'm just putting it on a little stand on the desktop, and when I choose to play it, I use drum sticks and record the midi into a pyramid.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by oldgearguy »

Nelson Baboon wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:12 pm
jonne74 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:55 am
Tajnost wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:14 pm Wondering what's the magic behind Nord's sound?
Maybe someone knows, is it some "secret" mathematics, or special output stage / convertors?
The all sounds very special - clear, cold, razor sharp but at the same time "analog"
I think that the people at Clavia just had to really dig in to make the NL a reality. There probably wasn't a lot to go on, being one of the first, if not the first VA. There must be a ton of resources available now compared to then and maybe that's where the sound comes from.
I'm about as far from writing DSP code as one can get, but aren't these programmers/designers able to listening to what they are programming and go by their ears/minds? The nord lead was the first real va (i think people argue this, but i believe that this is the case. And that's how the product was presented in any case) and I think to some degree they were inspired by the prophet 5 and wanted to come as close to the spirit of that sound as they could.

I suppose (again about as far away from a designer of analog synths as one could be) isn't the same basic issue there for analog? Once the basic components are there, how do you adjust the sound to get it where you want? Don't people begin with some knowledge about what changes might change the sound in particular ways and then try out different things?
Depends on their experience and skill level.
Take VSTs and plugin effects. There's a lot of Open Source/Freeware code for reverbs, etc floating around and if you're relatively new to it, you can grab what's out there, compile it, maybe cautiously tweak a couple things, wrap it in a GUI and put it out there for download/sale. That doesn't mean it's going to sound like an old Lexicon or a Bricasti.

Same with hardware and synths. Tons of filter designs, tons of VCO schematics, all available for reference/use. Again, just because you have the SEM schematics doesn't mean what you wire up will automatically sound like an SEM. If you've been doing analog circuit design for a long time, you can tweak the component values and even do a slight redesign to adjust the sound.

What folks end up finding in hardwareland is that it really is the sum of everything that makes a particular machine sound the way it does. I imagine it's the same with VAs and VSTs. Just because you have killer filter code doesn't mean you got the VCOs, mixer, VCAs and envelopes all correct. Then you add modulations and polyphony and the math can get more intense. Digital overload/truncation tends to not sound good, so you need to pay close attention to gain staging, even with digital.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Nelson Baboon »

yeah - i mean, I'm assuming that the question, as posed, is referring to a high level of experience and skill. I didn't take the question to be about beginners somewhat haphazardly putting together pre-written components, but already having years of experience and a high level of skill. Of course, there couldn't have been tons of experience designing VAs back in the early to mid 90's, but obviously the people who wrote the original nord lead code (and at least throught the 3, the same core sound persists) new what they were doing and how to adjust the sound.

but also - i don't know shit about this, so i may just be spouting nonsense. I find it interesting that there are synths that have distinctive character to their sounds...the nords, and some others. Surely the tastes of the designers came into play and that this wasn't the sound that they arrived at on the first pass.....
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by jonne74 »

I don't have any of the Leads, just the Modular and Micro Modular, but I think they even included the Prophet 5 presets in an update. Maybe it was for the NL2.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by acidbob »

Long time NR2X user here, I had a lot of VA's in my time and also the NR1 and the Nord modular for a short while.

For me personally the NR1/NR2 sounds similar and has a certain sound to them, the NR2X is just a tiny bit more refined, overall I would be happy with any of them.

I have only tried the NR3 and NR4, and as it went with the Virus they sort of became "software sounding" and it seems that the human ear really like some dirt. If you are happy with the NR3 I am pretty sure you will love the NR1/2/2X sound, and NR2 and 2X are amazing synths but the A1 is also a good contender soundwise and also more modern with FX.

As you also probably know, the new VA's of course have great effects, and this sort of is a tool too, a tool that honestly becomes a part of the sound, and here the A1 excels, and the raw sound is also there. However some features are kind of lagging behind.

I think the NR1/2 and 2X are classics for a reason, just like the Virus A. Actually that is a good comparison, Virus A and NR1, Virus B and NR2. Not sure where the 2X is placed, but I would say, it's like the NR2 and hence Virus B.

I am aware that the Virus is a completely different sounding synth compared to the Nord, but they also went through these similar revisions and to me I could not really hear the difference, I would not be able to tell one from the other in a blind test.

The Nord modular is awesome, but you have to spend time with it and dive in, full on. It's not for the quick musician, but since this is a modular forum and you are probably into modular anyway it's worth looking into, the problem for me here is the software.

If I had to choose between the 1/2/2X and the A1 I would probably choose the older models, I have enough inputs in my studio to not rely on built in FX and I dont really use FM and some of the advanced features, for me it's just a really good sounding synth. But if I had less inputs I would definitely get the A1.

I am not sure I would replace the NR2X with the A1, would probably keep the 2X, as for me the 2X is the Nordlead and I have great memories with it. It's sort of special in my heart, and I think some users would say they feel the same about other Nord products, which is just a testimony to it's longevity, quality, sound and their ability to still be relevant. I can understand your impression, totally, it makes you want to try out other Nord's.

I think you should consider your self really lucky you got a NR3, it really is one of the best Nords, from a control and feature standpoint, I think you can make almost the same sounds with the NR3 as you can with the 2X. NR3 really is amazing. Just take good care of it and use it.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by Nelson Baboon »

I think you're talking to me....there have been updates. I have a 'collection' now - the original, the 2, and the 3.

I do think that the 2 sounds different from the 1. And the 3 from the 2....but each successive one has additional features, etc. I can hear the same core sound, but i think that obviously were some compromises with the 3, but i think it sounds great. I don't quite understand what it means when people say that it sounds like a plugin. Some plugins sound great. I generally don't like working with them for various reasons.

I've heard good things about the A1, but frankly, while I'm not against fx in hardware synths, I'm not into giving up synth features for it.

I'd be curious to try a 2x again. All of this stuff, clean vs dirt, etc - if you're making traditional synth sounds, i guess it makes some difference, but if you're taking it kind of out there, features assume more importance. I like having the Pelle mode, though.
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Re: Nord vs Nord

Post by gentleclockdivider »

Tajnost wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:14 pm Wondering what's the magic behind Nord's sound?
Maybe someone knows, is it some "secret" mathematics, or special output stage / convertors?
The all sounds very special - clear, cold, razor sharp but at the same time "analog"
Peter jubel is/was the magic
--->PELLE<---
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