Cadac LIVE1 mixer

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metamorphmuses
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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by metamorphmuses » Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:46 am

Bobby wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:45 am
metamorphmuses wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:42 am
Bobby wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:35 am
I leave my eq permanently on buy I'll check for clicking on mine next time I get a chance.

If you ain't using it live or in a hot environment I highly recomend unplugging the fan. Best move I ever made, got the instructions in you need them.

Also the eq card can be swapped dead easily from what I remember, I modified the direct out on mine to post eq, been meaning to buy some spares but you may wanna consider that if you got a few bugs.

All in all its the best "cheaper " still available modern mixer I've come across though. I highly rate APB, really nice but not face melt lush.
Oh, yeah, that fan is whiny and annoying. Are the instructions for turning it off in the manual? Because I've got a PDF of it. Good advice on the spare EQ cards; I might want to do that eventually / soonish.
I contacted APB and they sent me a pdf of instructions and some warnings about how hot was too hot. Again it was well easy, you just unplug the connector.

If you get any spares let me know how you get on please, like I say I need to get around to it.
Okay, cool. I do see the wiring diagram in the manual.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Bobby » Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:48 am

This is the instructions I got
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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Bobby » Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:50 am

And the mail

Congratulations on your new ProRack House mixer. It is true that the fan in the power supply can be disconnected for use in recording environments provided the ambient temperature are relatively low in the room. As ProSpec was designed as a live performance mixer, it finds itself in use in both very high and very low temperature environments. If the temperature is 90 degrees and higher, the fan definitely needs to remain operational.

If you are using the room indoors (no direct sun and preferably in a air conditioned room) you can disconnect the fan as described below. The unit will run hotter as the fan also circulated air inside of the mixer itself. It will run hot to the touch but unless it hit a temp where you have a fear of burning yourself, it is OK to use this way (No electrolytic capacitors in audio signal pats so no critical caps to dry our ore ware out and change values).

Below is a description and photos from John Petrucelli (who passed away in 2017) who was responding to a customer who asked your same question.

Once you do this, I suggest that you do NOT use it outdoors during the summer months, and suggest that the fan be reconnected in high ambient heat situations.

Wishing you many use of successful use,

Chuck





Henry,

This is John P. one of the ProRack designers.

Chuck is basically correct about the fan info, but here is some additional data.



The fan runs at a reduced speed, mainly to keep airflow through the console.

The power supply itself is over-spec’d and doesn’t really need much cooling.



Although quiet, it’s not dead-quite. Have you listened to the ProRack while in the Studio, is the fan that noticeable?


Instead of remotely locating the PSU and using a long DC cable, it would be easier to just disable the fan inside the PSU.

As long as the ProRack is installed in an air-conditioned room (as most studios are), then it should be fine.

Check its top surface occasionally to make sure it’s not running too hot (warm to the touch is OK).

Ideally, operate the ProRack with its Rear Pod in the fully-extended (90 degree) position to allow the rear of the Pod

to be exposed to the cool room air instead of being up against the rear of the main ProRack chassis.

There are driver electronics in the Pod, and they tend to run warm.



Here is a short explanation of how to disable the fan in the ProRack’s PSU.

1) Remove the 6 hex screws securing the power supply chassis to the rear of the ProRack

2) Remove the 4 Phillips-head screws that secure the PSU sub-chassis

3) Remove the sub-chassis from the chassis and look inside

4) Locate the 3-pin housing for the fan wires (Red & Black) See attached PDF

5) Unplug (white) housing from the board header. You can leave it dangling.

6) Reassemble everything in reverse order…

Contact me if any further questions.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Bobby » Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:51 am

Been running for over a year with no issues.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by metamorphmuses » Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:59 am

Bobby wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:51 am
Been running for over a year with no issues.
Thanks, Bobby!

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Bobby » Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:10 am

metamorphmuses wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:59 am
Bobby wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:51 am
Been running for over a year with no issues.
Thanks, Bobby!
No worries. I didn't love it until I disconnected the fan. We got on a lot better after that.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Bobby » Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:26 am

One last post. I think for me the apb is a keeper. I might get an older high end broadcast mixer with a bit of magic at some point, but older mixers come with headaches, then at least I know the apb will be there if my passion mixer falls apart.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by metamorphmuses » Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:27 am

Okay, so earlier I spoke too soon. First I just tested the APB H1020 mixer and relied on my memory of what the Mackie VLZ3 1642 mixer sounded like. I just finished doing a proper A/B comparison: same sound source (a Vermona PerFourmer mkII), first plugged into the H1020 and then plugged into the VLZ3 1642.

No, it's like night and day. The H1020 has a far superior sound at every volume level, and its handling of gain at the louder ranges is far superior. You can push the H1020 up to just below clipping and it sounds beautiful; just don't push into clipping.

I had my girlfriend listen to the A/B comparison, but I first played the Mackie and then the APB. Her reaction was immediate when I switched to the H1020: "Oh, it sounds velvety!" I thought that was the perfect word for it: 'velvety'.

I still think the EQ is great but not utterly phenomenal. And I'm okay with that. What I'm after is really the excellent handling of dynamics and headroom that I describe above. I am a satisfied customer.

If a Cadac Live1 rears its head in a year or two, I will have to carefully consider the opportunity, but I intend to get some real mileage out of the H1020 until something on that level appears.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Bobby » Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:08 am

Glad to hear you're happy, defo a nice mixer and probably the best you'll get in the price range without the headaches imo.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Bobby » Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:09 am

Great routing too

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by metamorphmuses » Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:42 am

Bobby wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:09 am
Great routing too
Definitely. With the four aux and four group outs, I probably won't need the direct outs; if I did, I'd probably want to change them to post-fader like you have them, but I'd rather not get under the hood as it were if I don't have to.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by maxl0rd » Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:03 am

I wonder if production has ramped back up on the apb’s? Mine is about 10 years old now, and is starting to show its age.

I think it’s a fantastic piece. I have had some name brand consoles here in the past, but the apb works as well for me as anything I’ve used.

I left the fan connected because mine is racked above an H8000 which is a _power_plant_!

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Bobby » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:43 am

maxl0rd wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:03 am
I wonder if production has ramped back up on the apb’s? Mine is about 10 years old now, and is starting to show its age.

I think it’s a fantastic piece. I have had some name brand consoles here in the past, but the apb works as well for me as anything I’ve used.

I left the fan connected because mine is racked above an H8000 which is a _power_plant_!
The production line did seem to be rolling again. I got mine last year new. Dunno if they are affected by the chip shortage like everyone else seems to be to!

How's yours keeping after 10 years? Any issues?

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Dave Peck » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:58 am

Bobby wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:10 am
metamorphmuses wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:59 am
Bobby wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:51 am
Been running for over a year with no issues.
Thanks, Bobby!
No worries. I didn't love it until I disconnected the fan. We got on a lot better after that.
Another possible option - replace the fan with a quieter fan. There are now quite a few really efficient and very quiet fans available, mostly due to demand from the PC industry.

When I worked at Euphonix, we did a special project for one of the larger clients who wanted to put racks of our converters in the outboard credenza in their studio (rather than in the machine room where everyone else puts them), and these converters had fans that were a bit too loud so they asked us to find a quieter fan for their order. This required a lot of engineering work because we also had to verify that the replacement fan was reliable and that it would cool as well as the original.

After a lot of experimenting, we chose fans from a company called Noctua:

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan or: https://www.quietpc.com/noctuafans

They cooled as well as the original and the reduction in fan noise was pretty impressive. But note - we discovered that you cannot choose a quiet fan based on the published spec because the actual noise level, and the TYPE of noise (unobtrusive broadband pink noise versus an annoying high-pitched whine) will vary depending on the mechanical specifics of the product that you install it in. So YMMV but if you want to still have a fan in your mixer, you may want to check out the Noctua products.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Dymaxion » Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:34 pm

Hah, was just scrolling down to make the same recommendation. I've replaced the fan in our lighting console — which used to be noisy enough that it sucked to have it on during quiet performances — with a Noctua. Can't hear it now unless you're right up near it.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Seaweed Sound » Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:50 pm

metamorphmuses wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:27 am
I still think the EQ is great but not utterly phenomenal. And I'm okay with that.
This strikes me as an accurate but kind of an odd statement like you just bought a Mercedes but turn around and say well it ain't a Lambo. I've mixed on an APB before and the EQ is truly excellent. It's not like on Mackie where you say well it's the only EQ I've got so it'll have to do.

The APB EQ sounds really good and has well chosen frequencies especially for bass heavy electronic music (60 hz on the low, low mid goes all the way down to 80). Also HPF on every channel is incredibly rare on a mixer of this size (although it's not technically part of the EQ circuit). There is a small click when engaging/disengaging the EQ. I've always left them engaged as it sounds slightly better that way even with totally flat settings.

The strength of this board is it is incredibly compact without feeling cramped yet very feature laden, with excellent routing flexibility and sound. Afaik the Crest XR20 is not up to the same quality level as the APB unit. The B in APB stands for Taz Bhogal who left Crest/Peavey to be one of the founders of APB.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by metamorphmuses » Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:43 pm

Seaweed Sound wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:50 pm
metamorphmuses wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:27 am
I still think the EQ is great but not utterly phenomenal. And I'm okay with that.
This strikes me as an accurate but kind of an odd statement like you just bought a Mercedes but turn around and say well it ain't a Lambo. I've mixed on an APB before and the EQ is truly excellent. It's not like on Mackie where you say well it's the only EQ I've got so it'll have to do.

The APB EQ sounds really good and has well chosen frequencies especially for bass heavy electronic music (60 hz on the low, low mid goes all the way down to 80). Also HPF on every channel is incredibly rare on a mixer of this size (although it's not technically part of the EQ circuit). There is a small click when engaging/disengaging the EQ. I've always left them engaged as it sounds slightly better that way even with totally flat settings.

The strength of this board is it is incredibly compact without feeling cramped yet very feature laden, with excellent routing flexibility and sound. Afaik the Crest XR20 is not up to the same quality level as the APB unit. The B in APB stands for Taz Bhogal who left Crest/Peavey to be one of the founders of APB.
You make a good point. The thing is, this APB H1020 is the best mixer I've ever had the pleasure and privilege to actually get my hands on and hear. Maybe the reason that I'm impressed with the pre-amplification (I believe this is what is responsible for the gain and dynamics sounding big but also smooth, compared to other mixers; correct me if I am misidentifying the source) and more reserved about the EQ — which however I do think is great — is that I might be spoiled by digital, in-the-box EQs now. It would be odd that I am so motivated to have gotten a higher caliber analog mixer, and yet crave the sound and precise controls of the paragraphic EQ in, say, Ableton or Audition, but on the other hand it's the only concrete experience I can reliably attribute my expectations to. For example, as great as the two sweepable mid-frequency EQ bands are on the H1020, maybe I've become accustomed nevertheless to expect a further stage of narrowing or widening the 'Q' or ratio. It's either that or blame my overall lack of experience with professional studio equipment, which could very well be the culprit.

I think perhaps I eventually might get an outboard, dedicated stereo EQ that I can use in an effects loop on a channel or a group bus, and then I can make a study of what my ears tell me is the better EQ.

When all is said and done, I am quite satisfied with the H1020, and the role of the EQ on it is for live performance and tracking, so I could consider the mixer as a preparatory stage, and if I end up mixing my sound sources in a DAW, I avail myself of the best of both worlds. This is ultimately why I wanted a great analog mixer: to shape the sound DAWlessly as best I can and then do as little work as possible to finish my mixes in the box.

---
Dave Peck wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:58 am
Bobby wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:10 am
metamorphmuses wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:59 am
Bobby wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:51 am
Been running for over a year with no issues.
Thanks, Bobby!
No worries. I didn't love it until I disconnected the fan. We got on a lot better after that.
Another possible option - replace the fan with a quieter fan. There are now quite a few really efficient and very quiet fans available, mostly due to demand from the PC industry.

When I worked at Euphonix, we did a special project for one of the larger clients who wanted to put racks of our converters in the outboard credenza in their studio (rather than in the machine room where everyone else puts them), and these converters had fans that were a bit too loud so they asked us to find a quieter fan for their order. This required a lot of engineering work because we also had to verify that the replacement fan was reliable and that it would cool as well as the original.

After a lot of experimenting, we chose fans from a company called Noctua:

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan or: https://www.quietpc.com/noctuafans

They cooled as well as the original and the reduction in fan noise was pretty impressive. But note - we discovered that you cannot choose a quiet fan based on the published spec because the actual noise level, and the TYPE of noise (unobtrusive broadband pink noise versus an annoying high-pitched whine) will vary depending on the mechanical specifics of the product that you install it in. So YMMV but if you want to still have a fan in your mixer, you may want to check out the Noctua products.
Nice. Thanks for the recommendation!

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by trumman » Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:13 am

I have a APB H1020 mixer sitting next to me right now in which I replaced the fan with one of those tiny noctuas a couple of years ago, works perfectly :) If I remember correctly the pin out was slightly different compared to the old one but easy to figure out

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Bobby » Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:01 am

Wicked info on the fan. Cheers all.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by (((EMP))) » Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:39 am

Gorgeous little mixer.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by metamorphmuses » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:58 pm

I have some unfortunate news on my APB-Dynasonics ProRack House H1020 mixer.

But first, as I like to stay on topic in the thread, the Cadac Live1 mixer is still nowhere to be found.

So, it turns out that my H1020, despite being well packaged and sold to me by a very reputable vendor, arrived with some dings and was clearly treated roughly during shipping. I tested everything but the Aux busses right away and noted that the mixer seemed to be functioning no worse for the wear.

However, day before yesterday, I finally did get around to testing the Aux busses and noticed that they do not work on channels 1-12. That was disconcerting enough, but then I noticed that channel 5 is completely out, and that's definitely something I specifically checked when I received the mixer.

At this point, I've got a bit of buyer's remorse, only in the sense of having bought it second hand. When I bought it used, I had found no vendor selling it brand new, although subsequent to my purchase, I did find one online store that offers a "call for availability" (never a good sign, but they have other APB Dynasonics models in stock), so maybe it's possible to special order a H1020 in brand new condition. This online store lists it at $4500 new, even though I've seen other sources that put the retail price at $3500.

So, maybe I made a mistake in buying the H1020 second hand, but what's done is done and now I have to find a service technician to address channel 5 and the Aux busses on channels 1-12. I am in the Bay Area, so I thought there would be a number of service techs in the area, but the pickings are slim. I contacted APB Dynasonics to see if they had a roster of qualified techs that they could recommend. But to my surprise, they haven't even done me the courtesy of a reply to say, "no." I have to say, I would have thought that Cadac and APB Dynasonics would have at least sent me a reply, but both of them ignored me.

I am even considering the Allen & Heath MixWizard WZ4 14:4:2 again. Yet, I do really love the sound of the H1020, and I have a financial incentive to get it fixed, so we'll see if the slim leads I have pan out.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by Bobby » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:20 am

when and where did you speak with APB? theyve replied to me over the years for a few things (facebook and email), be very suprised if they dont get back to you.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by metamorphmuses » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:39 am

Bobby wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:20 am
when and where did you speak with APB? theyve replied to me over the years for a few things (facebook and email), be very suprised if they dont get back to you.
I sent them an email several days ago. No reply. I will try Facebook.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by maxl0rd » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:45 am

I would open it up and reseat all the ribbon cables and connectors any everything that’s not soldered down.

That’s likely to resolve some issues.

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Re: Cadac LIVE1 mixer

Post by metamorphmuses » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:49 am

maxl0rd wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:45 am
I would open it up and reseat all the ribbon cables and connectors any everything that’s not soldered down.

That’s likely to resolve some issues.
Yes, but I want a professional to open it up first. I have no experience with the electronics inside mixers, and I want to make sure someone who knows what they're doing goes "under the hood" before I must resort to a DIY solution.

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