Moog Subsequent 37

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Re: My 1st Post ... Sub37 / Subsequent37 keybed comparison

Post by booger » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:28 pm

Mikeyg3k wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:36 am
The Aurium wrote:
Also - with a mic amp, a mic can input to Audio In & you have a Corey Henry style vocoder .... I guess you realise that though :)
!
Any videos of this I'd love to see how that works!
I want to hear/see this, too.

Love my Sub 37! :party:

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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by j bowman » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:30 pm

Subsequent 37 running through the Lyra-8:


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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:07 pm

people still digging this? are the envelopes fast?
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by hawkfuzz » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:23 pm

How fast do you need? Yes. They can be a click.
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:58 pm

hawkfuzz wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:23 pm
How fast do you need? Yes. They can be a click.
a click is tight. are you a current owner and are you happy with it? the only moog units ive ever owned has been a little phatty and some effects units but this keeps catching my eye.
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by hawkfuzz » Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:46 pm

I sold mine at the beginning of the pandi to get a Hydra but I'd like to get one again when feasible. It's an amazing synth and has insane routing options. It's my first and only Moog. It's a bit darker than classics from what I read and from playing with the GM. It's 6 years old so there's plenty of demos out there.

There are some crazy presets available in the Moog Library and it's easy to program and get good sounds.

If you could, since you asked, enlighten me about the priority of 'snappy' envelopes. I've seen it a lot of and I don't know where it comes from and am curious if I've overlooked something when it comes to synthesis. From what I gathered, vactrols are the only thing that would have to be a concern in terms of snappy. However, if a stage can be 1 ms long, I don't know how it can't be snappy or why I'd even worry about it.

I prefer plucky sounds but haven't ever found myself in a situation where I couldn't get an envelope to be as short as I'd like so I wasn't sure if there was a envelope circuit that's notoriously too long or something else or if I'm wrong about how the word is being used.
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:04 am

hawkfuzz wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:46 pm
If you could, since you asked, enlighten me about the priority of 'snappy' envelopes. I've seen it a lot of and I don't know where it comes from and am curious if I've overlooked something when it comes to synthesis.
i prefer fast attack & decay envelopes for quick 16th note EBM style basslines.
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by hawkfuzz » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:24 am

Right but is there anything that doesn’t do that?
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by mor4sso » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:34 am

Grandmother doesn't have snappy envelopes

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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:24 am

hawkfuzz wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:24 am
Right but is there anything that doesn’t do that?
ummmmm, yes. plenty of units have slow stages.
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by hawkfuzz » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:39 am

Any examples though? I must be thinking wrong when people are saying snappy. It makes no sense for a envelope to not get fast IMO. Weird choice by manufacturers. It would be like having a vca that doesn’t close all the way.
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by MARK27 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:24 pm

I can't speak for anyone else, but I consider a "snappy" envelope to have an attack stage that is less than 2ms. The classic Moog 911 env generator had an an attack speed that was 2ms at its fastest. The Sub37's env generator's fastest attack speed is 0.1ms -- much "snappier."

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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by thevegasnerve » Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:34 pm

hawkfuzz wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:24 am
Right but is there anything that doesn’t do that?
MS-20 mini isn’t that snappy. at least I have a hard time doing that.

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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by hawkfuzz » Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:43 pm

Yeah I must be thinking about it different because I was able to get what I consider snappy results with it...
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:43 pm

MARK27 wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:24 pm
The Sub37's env generator's fastest attack speed is 0.1ms -- much "snappier."
now we’re talking :tu: thats snappy

i had a little phatty and its attack just kinda dragged ass imo. i was never very pleased with the attack on the BS2 either. even some polys i had were slow rollers. ive been told the attack on the dominion is like walking thru quicksand, but i havent had any firsthand experience to confirm.
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by kosmische » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:11 pm

I've used a Sub37 on & off for a couple years now, and this resurrected thread makes me want to bust it back out again. To me, the biggest pros are the overall physical feel of it and the VST editor. Love being able to save my own presets and I've gotten a few great sounds out of it.

However, the only con (imo) is what made me shelve it for a while: I could never get truly clean bass out of it. All my bass patches ended up sounding kind of "fuzzy" and lacked the punch I was looking for. Maybe this is a Moog 'feature not a bug,' but I can get somewhat cleaner bass out of my Mother-32. I had the same issue with my Sirin, which I sold for the same reason. Both have VST editors, which in itself shouldn't matter(?), but I'm wondering if the filters being digitally controlled somehow lends itself to this characteristic? Doesn't seem logical to me, but then again I'm not well-read on the internal electronic differences between models so I honestly just don't know. Fwiw, the signal path is super clean and well-tested, directly into a UA Apollo.

Has anyone else experienced this?

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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:24 pm

kosmische wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:11 pm
I've used a Sub37 on & off for a couple years now, and this resurrected thread makes me want to bust it back out again. To me, the biggest pros are the overall physical feel of it and the VST editor. Love being able to save my own presets and I've gotten a few great sounds out of it.

However, the only con (imo) is what made me shelve it for a while: I could never get truly clean bass out of it. All my bass patches ended up sounding kind of "fuzzy" and lacked the punch I was looking for. Maybe this is a Moog 'feature not a bug,' but I can get somewhat cleaner bass out of my Mother-32. I had the same issue with my Sirin, which I sold for the same reason. Both have VST editors, which in itself shouldn't matter(?), but I'm wondering if the filters being digitally controlled somehow lends itself to this characteristic? Doesn't seem logical to me, but then again I'm not well-read on the internal electronic differences between models so I honestly just don't know. Fwiw, the signal path is super clean and well-tested, directly into a UA Apollo.

Has anyone else experienced this?
do you have the Sub 37 or the Subsequent 37? The Subsequent 37 is supposed to be an improvement of the “pitfalls” of the Sub 37.

“The Subsequent 37 is a (two-note) paraphonic analogue synthesizer with double the mixer headroom of the Sub 37. This provides access to a new range of classic clean tones in both mono and duo performance modes. Leveraging the mixer’s newfound flexibility, the gain-staging of the Ladder filter has been reshaped to boost harmonic saturation and analogue compression, resulting in an overall richer low end, claim Moog. Completing the sonic evolution of the Subsequent 37 is a re-tuned Multidrive circuit that extends well beyond the grit and growl of the original Sub 37.“
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by hawkfuzz » Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:09 pm

I got clean from the sub37. Resonance up filter down. I think saw worked best for me.
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by muleskinner » Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:15 am

kosmische wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:11 pm
However, the only con (imo) is what made me shelve it for a while: I could never get truly clean bass out of it.
What levels do you have the oscillators at? I find I need to keep them really quite low for properly clean sounds. Anything above about noon seems to start driving the filter, and that's just on a single osc.

Personally I love the pretty much everything about my Sub37 though I find the restricted number of 'custom' mod destinations (only one per source) frustrating. I wish you could assign the 'filter' and 'pitch' destinations to other things.
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:51 pm

muleskinner wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:15 am
Personally I love the pretty much everything about my Sub37 though I find the restricted number of 'custom' mod destinations (only one per source) frustrating. I wish you could assign the 'filter' and 'pitch' destinations to other things.
what would be considered a ‘custom’ mod destination? arent there over 90 mod destinations?
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by Mr.Kus » Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:40 am

Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:51 pm
muleskinner wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:15 am
Personally I love the pretty much everything about my Sub37 though I find the restricted number of 'custom' mod destinations (only one per source) frustrating. I wish you could assign the 'filter' and 'pitch' destinations to other things.
what would be considered a ‘custom’ mod destination? arent there over 90 mod destinations?
There's no mod matrix, each modulator can only be sent to one of those extra destinations at a time, or that's how I've understood it, I don't own one.

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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by muleskinner » Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:57 am

Mr.Kus wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:40 am
There's no mod matrix, each modulator can only be sent to one of those extra destinations at a time, or that's how I've understood it, I don't own one.
Exactly. I find this aspect of the design really frustrating. It's like having a massive modular at your disposal and only one patch cable.

There are 'hard wired' destinations for filter and pitch as well, but given that these exist on both mod busses and that filter cutoff also has its own dedicated envelope (which can be looped) I often find that these are left unused. To be able to assign these knobs to custom destinations would really open things up.
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:48 am

muleskinner wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:57 am
Mr.Kus wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:40 am
There's no mod matrix, each modulator can only be sent to one of those extra destinations at a time, or that's how I've understood it, I don't own one.
Exactly. I find this aspect of the design really frustrating. It's like having a massive modular at your disposal and only one patch cable.

There are 'hard wired' destinations for filter and pitch as well, but given that these exist on both mod busses and that filter cutoff also has its own dedicated envelope (which can be looped) I often find that these are left unused. To be able to assign these knobs to custom destinations would really open things up.
for some reason i was under the impression that you could keep stacking the mod destinations per mod bus but looks its not the case. im gonna get one today anyway i think. i dont really need it to go insane (even though would be sick too) because i mostly plan on using it for bass.
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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by kosmische » Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:05 am

Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:24 pm
do you have the Sub 37 or the Subsequent 37? The Subsequent 37 is supposed to be an improvement of the “pitfalls” of the Sub 37.

“The Subsequent 37 is a (two-note) paraphonic analogue synthesizer with double the mixer headroom of the Sub 37. This provides access to a new range of classic clean tones in both mono and duo performance modes. Leveraging the mixer’s newfound flexibility, the gain-staging of the Ladder filter has been reshaped to boost harmonic saturation and analogue compression, resulting in an overall richer low end, claim Moog. Completing the sonic evolution of the Subsequent 37 is a re-tuned Multidrive circuit that extends well beyond the grit and growl of the original Sub 37.“
Sorry for the delayed reply. It's the Sub 37, I should have realized that before my initial post. I honestly never paid much attention to the difference between them so thank you for that info.
muleskinner wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:15 am
What levels do you have the oscillators at? I find I need to keep them really quite low for properly clean sounds. Anything above about noon seems to start driving the filter, and that's just on a single osc.
Ah! I usually have them around the 2 o'clock position, but I'll try backing them down to 12. Thanks for the tip!

Side note: I'm not as familiar with the ins/outs of this synth because it's not mine. A friend has been storing it here for 2 years and it more or less just sits in the corner, rarely used...so admittedly I haven't done all the research on it that I normally would for my own gear. Informative stuff here so thanks again!

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Re: Moog Subsequent 37

Post by anselmi » Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:46 am

honestly all what the official literature said about the differences between the sub-37 and the subsequent is subtle in practice...I had both side by side, and compared a lot of the same patches (by programming it in panel mode) and I could managed to do the same in both synth with little or no difference at all

any different experience to share? maybe the difference is in some patches that I´m not interested in program

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